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Old 09-23-2008, 08:51 PM #1
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After lurking for quite some time this topic finally got me interested enough to register and reply.

This is the same old same old in regards to discussion. Absolutely nothing has changed all that much over the years.

Paintball is not going to progress past where it is currently. This has been beat to death over the years. First it was - "Wait till it's out of the woods." Then it was "We need someone in the entertainment world to take notice." It has always been "We need to get people in the stands."

It came out of the woods in regards to tournament paintball, great. In all reality we seem to have lost a bit of the fun. You can only move an airball bunker field around so many times before it feels like - "Been there done that." After multiple use....even the airball bunkers start looking like garbage.

Dick Clark and others came and went and absolutely nothing really sustaining ever came of it.

People in the stands? How are you going to get 20 and up men to come watch a bunch of "agg" acting kids play paintball, are they going to pay and actually spend money on merchandise? 20 and up men do not want to emulate children. Tournament paintball has not traversed in a direction that is marketable to an audience that can and will spend money to view it.

There just are way too many different top teams playing too many different formats. There is way too much player jumping and guesting. What team are you going to follow now? Wait...how many of those guys play for a different team in a different format? This is all too confusing.

It's not going to change guys. Your never going to get the public to come out and watch a national paintball tournament. Your never really going to get widespread "pro's" in this game that are true to the word. As in actually get paid to play paintball - not get the winnings.

Enjoy what it is....help clean up the garbage of a mess it is now but just enjoy it.
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:25 PM #2
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Obviously your post helps alot..........

I agree with people not wanting to watch kids persay but what do you call 40 50 60 yearold pats fans watch 20 to 30 yearold men? play football. Yes its a different sport but the ages are still the same as paintball. I think paintball will progress as a spectator sport but never to the level as Football Baseball Basketball and Soccer. The reason is the ball, all those sports have 1 focal point to watch so it makes the game easier to follow. Yes theres stats but basically if you watch the ball and one team gets it to go where it wants for most of the game, they usually win.

Paintball isnt a sport, its an extreme sport. Its a sport that you first play for fun and to learn and then become addicted to, just like skate boarding, snowboarding, and any other extreme sports. Theres lots of extreme sports all with very dedicated followings. You could see NPPL and PSP Pros as the leaders of the sport and the d1 through d3 as the loyal followers. They immitate there heros and hope to do what they do one day. The thing with paintball is getting people to actually sit down and watch a match. I know for me watching a Xball style match is much more exciting that a 7man NPPL format match. I still enjoy both but the length of the xball match makes the sit down worth it. I took my father to LA 07 and when i wasnt playing we thoroughly enjoyed sitting at watching all the other divisions play. Theres a great atmostphere and your in a bleacher with a back pack full of beverages and its a great time. Its getting people to watch one time, just one time, and they can become hooked. Now im not saying i could, or anyone could afford to fly to PSP or NPPL events and take 4 days off to sit and watch paintball all day, thats where things can change to make it for the better.

I believe that we should make the switch over to State teams with home fields and basically do what all other major sports do. Have one team come to one field and play either one or a series of games. Say the hurricanes fly to LA and play the Ironmen at there field. The ironmen own the field and so when the seats get filled they get paid, aswell as there owner, coach, manager whatever. This way all the pro teams have a source of income instead of sololy on there sponsors. There can be consessions and such and merch. Ironman Fingers and Hurricane Clapper thingies (those inflatable things) and so on. Obviously this is a long way from happeneing but if it could it could cause a chain reaction and a feasible way for teams to play and be able to afford to play and make a decent living. Then eventually air time and such. Also it would all much better games. Teams would only have 1 to 3 games to play in a day just for that day so they would be full of energy and be able to spend it more freely. I dont care how physically fit you are 4 days of games wears on anyone, and also your gear. Then theres the refs. Have you ever reffed a NEPL, have you ever reffed a NPPL. Day one the refs are well fed rested and ready to go, by day 4 most of the refs just dont wanna get shot any more and wanna go home, kinda hinders there ability to make good calls. Theres a huge list in my head about my idea for the league and i could go on and on but ill stop there.

The only thing close to this is the current CXBL and AXBL which apparently are doing fantasticly. So maybe one day we will have a said paintball League where teams travel to other teams home fields. I think it would be amazing.

Also i believe this isnt the same old same old because i clearly see better sportsmanship and behavior at every NEPL i attend. Less and Less cheating, less and less complaining and arguing with refs. I also better personal attitudes at practices and rival team helping each other and laughing with each other after games. Paintball needs help with its image and things like that can only help the game. Rant over.....my fingers hurt
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:50 PM #3
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Your asking an older crowd to get on board and watch a game that has progressively gotten younger and younger. For all the good and BAD that comes along with that. Very few mature people want to emulate "agg."

People watch Professional sports for so many reasons that paintball just can't even rationalize with. Professional sports have infiltrated our lives. You can't turn around without seeing something somewhere for some person/sport. These are usually sports we can play for free or next to free as we are growing up, thus increasing the pool of potential fans down the road. These are sports we can grab a bunch of friends growing up and easily go out in our back yards and play.

Paintball is absolutely never going to achieve this. I don't ever see it happening. All we have now is a new group of people keeping the same fight going that others did previously. Yet we are no closer to any of the goals and probably further away on a few.

Paintball has needed help with it's image from day one. That argument is the same argument we had back at day one. How many more years do we need to go before we honestly take a look at that? It's just not going to change image wise. It's still a bunch of people running around shooting each other.

Extreme Sports popularity is waning.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:05 PM #4
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Your right, the earth is flat.

All sports are getting younger and younger competitors who are stiving farther than there elders. Look at the Olympics theres a huge number of 15 to 20 yearolds that compete in it, and there the best in the world. Gymnasts, Soccer, and Swimming all had extremly young atheltes. How many people watched the Olympics. Show of hands? Yea hundreds of thousands.

Paintball is a relatively young sport. I do think it will progress, the image does get better every year. Extreme sports are defently not wanning

wan (wn)
adj. wan·ner, wan·nest
1. Unnaturally pale, as from physical or emotional distress.
2. Suggestive or indicative of weariness, illness, or unhappiness; melancholy: a wan expression.
intr.v. wanned, wan·ning, wans
To become pale.

I dont see extreme sports becoming pale, or weary. If anything extreme sports grow every day as the population grows. As long as people want to have fun, compete, and get a natural adrenaline rush extreme sports and paintball arent gonna die. Yes those other sports are more popuralized and are have alot more advertising and media. They have also been around some 100 years. If you think money is a issue then i guess you havent played any highschool sports, or havent participated in anything involving a motor. People still race even with gas prices are what they are. Motorcross, F1, NASCAR, NHRA and all other sorts of racing are defently not dieing. Unless paintball guns become illegal i dont see paintball stopping at any level. I think people grossly miss understand the amount of people play or have played paintball, and the majority is woods ball players. If youve paid attention to the major paintball companies the are catering more and more to woods ball players and there even is a Pro Woods Ball League. I think first place is some 10000 dollars.

Paintball players have steadily increased over the past ten years and believe it has taken the #1 sport for extreme sports world wide. I do see maybe some drop off with cost of oil affecting petroleum products, but not that many.

Paintball was a sport orginated with a gun designed to mark trees and cows, and was played in the woods with men in ther 30's and 40's with BDU's and saftey glasses shooting a total of 20 paintballs over the course of the day. Now its a game of tactics, strategy, mental and physical fitness, and a bit of luck. Theres no branches on our NPPL fields of PSP fields and yes there are markers, but theres much more to it than a bunch of kids running around shooting each other. Any person who sits down and watches a match can instantly pick that up. All im saying is dont frown on paintball and maybe try to support it more because it seems that your all NOT about it. Thats ok and all but your choice is your choice, i just dont see paintball dieing.

"IMITATION IS THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY" kids only act agg because they want to be like there heros - the pros. Just like buying your favorite pats jersey.

Last edited by crappinonyourchest : 09-23-2008 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:12 PM #5
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:28 PM #6
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Dude....don't get mad at me for pointing out the obvious.

Okay good call on Soccer, Gymnasts and swimming. Now name 10 greats off of the top of your head in each.

As for the Olympics? Taking the superstars out of it - people watch it because every 4 years the entire world unites in common sporting competition. You want to somehow tie that in with paintball? Paintball isn't even on the same planet.

You "don't" think money is one of the major hurdles with paintball? I don't know about you....but in my High School it didn't cost a whole lot to play it's offered sports, care to enlighten me on yours?

You honestly are not thinking prior to typing. Paintball has always had tactics and strategy involved with it. Mental and physical fitness were a part of it then as well as luck. Those didn't just magically come to being after tournament ball left the woods, lol.

How did we get onto this paintball is dieing kick? I never said it was. I said it is never going to progress to the level you guys think it'll get to. We've been saying that for what 10, 15 years now?

Mass interest in Extreme Sports as a viable money making enterprise is absolutely waning. Less and less are making it to front page news.

Also, thanks for looking up the definition of wan, though I clearly used waning.

1: to decrease in size, extent, or degree : dwindle : as a: to diminish in phase or intensity —used chiefly of the moon, other satellites, and inferior planets b: to become less brilliant or powerful : dim c: to flow out : ebb 2: to fall gradually from power, prosperity, or influence
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:55 PM #7
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I would post to retaliate you your post but then you would find a reason to twist my words around yet again in to what there not

I forgot that going from pee wee to NFL has no costs to a player

Ill admit that i typed wanning to find a defintion instead of waning. O woe is me

There is your anwser on saying paintball is dieing. We all know the defintion of that and im not Mr.Rodgers here to give you a lesson. You say its never going to progress to the level we think it is but you say it as though we think miracously over night it will reach NFL levels. No one ever said that and ill just take your words and twist them as you did mine and say you "ASSUMED" thats what we ment. I has come along way from the splatmasters and turned into what it is today. Dont assume it just makes a *** out of u and me.

I didnt compare the Olympics and Paintball as being on par with each other because the Olympics is obviously more than one event and lasts several weeks. I compared the age of the competitors to the age of those interested in watching.

Young atheletes in sports. Tiger Woods was 20 when he became big, maybe even 19. Lebron james barely turned 17 before he was looking at professional NBA contracts. Freddy Adu played pro at 14...........14, but i bet you dont know who Freddy Adu is. He plays soccer. Yes yes in the horrible american league but he does play professionally. We cant all be Wayne Rooneys. EPL ya know Man U. Sorry, im english, i love my national sport.

As far as again twisting my word with the tactics. When it did start it was just guys tromping around in the woods shooting at each other and laughing and farting around, and HAS PROGRESSED THROUGH THE YEARS to a more tactial, more physically and mentally demanding sport. As far as the extreme sports as waning, with one n, i never thought that front page news meant the life or death of a extreme sport. Most of them arent mainstream and thats the whole point. When do you see motocross on the front page, or skateboarding, or snowboarding, or sky diving, or or or need i go on. I admitted that paintball requires quite a substantial amount of income/money/spending as i stated as in comparing it to motorized sports and the relationship between petroleum and the number of global players. And by the way oil by the barrel went up 20 dollars the otherday which is total crap. Freaking AIG, freaking horrible stockmarket, freaking tax adjustments.

I dont really see extreme sports dieing in mass. If it is i guess one of if not the best chain of stores and field in the whole of mass made a mistake of moving its indoor to a bigger and better place, which i suggest all of you go play at this winter. Go Boston Paintball. Woot. Thats all for now, patiently waiting your response. Feel free to pm me to free this thread of useless, well partially useless clutter.
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:25 PM #8
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Why do you think Extreme Sports is paintball? I said interest in Extreme Sports is waning. As a whole. Perhaps it's me but not a whole heck of a lot on ESPN anymore. Even the X-Games have lost their luster.

Great, you brought up Freddy Adu! Kind of like paintball, no? No one goes and watches him play. Your also talking about the young 1% of the players who are making it professionally in their sports. You don't have a team of 14 year olds playing soccer on a national/professional level with a group of fans paying money to watch them.

As for the Olympics? People go and watch to support their country more then to watch the individual participants, whom other then the few superstars we have already forgotten. The Olympics is much more then just a sporting event. Sorry but having people watch it in regards to young participants does not translate to paintball.

I seem to be lost on your thinking here.....are we talking NFL? Trust me if your thought of as being a blue chipper and NFL potential in High School, it isn't going to cost you a whole heck of a lot of money AND your going to get a free education. Perhaps I just don't understand what your trying to say here. I thought your point was high School sports were not cheap in regards to paintball. Was I wrong?

Paintball tactics have just changed along with the game, don't kid yourself into thinking they were not just as important back then. Just because the type of tactic is different doesn't mean there were none then.

Tournament paintball is just going to keep on chugging as it has been. Your not going to fill stands up with true fans. Your never going to see true professional paintball players on a whole.

Yeah...I called you on wan/waning just like you tried to do on me. If your going to try and fire off a shot to be cool. Make sure it's correct.

Respond if you like.
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:31 PM #9
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Posting comments towards you is like beating a dead horse. So ill leave it at this
Join date september 2008. Thanks. You win and gratz on saying the same thing over and over and not having a point.

Yes there are under 21 teams, basically every soccer club has them. Look it up.
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:36 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crappinonyourchest View Post
I think paintball will progress as a spectator sport but never to the level as Football Baseball Basketball and Soccer. The reason is the ball, all those sports have 1 focal point to watch so it makes the game easier to follow.
Emoney Paintball is an interesting concept, but following a flag is just not the same as following a ball. But, that's a whole other can of worms...

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Paintball isnt a sport, its an extreme sport.
Exactly. To me, it's more comparable to snowboarding than anything else. You buy/rent some expensive gear, you go to the mountain, buy a lift ticket, and off you go.

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Originally Posted by New Englander View Post
Professional sports have infiltrated our lives. You can't turn around without seeing something somewhere for some person/sport. These are usually sports we can play for free or next to free as we are growing up, thus increasing the pool of potential fans down the road. These are sports we can grab a bunch of friends growing up and easily go out in our back yards and play.

Paintball is absolutely never going to achieve this.

...

It's just not going to change image wise. It's still a bunch of people running around shooting each other.
Agreed. No matter how much you try to get people to call them "markers", it doesn't change the fact that it's a gun. It's a device that fires projectiles and it is dangerous if used improperly. That stigma will never be removed from the sport.

Quote:
Extreme Sports popularity is waning.
Unless you've got some numbers to show us that prove that, I think I'll choose to disregard that. I don't think the popularity is waning, I think the average family's disposable income, which covers participation in those sports for many, is what's waning.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crappinonyourchest View Post
How many people watched the Olympics. Show of hands? Yea hundreds of thousands.
Millions.



This discussion is all well and good, but it accomplishes nothing except for us coming to a consensus about who we are and what we're doing: a bunch of addicts (adrenaline junkies - was there ever such a perfect name for a paintball team?) who are doing what they enjoy.

Where do we go from here? What is the practical outcome of this discussion? Everyone should just take a look at why they're doing it, admit to themselves it's just for fun, and enjoy the hell out of it. Play as often and as well as you can.

The best thing we can do to make paintball better is to apply the Golden Rule to our behavior on and off the field. Make it fun for others and they'll make it fun for you.
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:54 PM #11
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Posting comments towards you is like beating a dead horse. So ill leave it at this
Join date september 2008. Thanks. You win and gratz on saying the same thing over and over and not having a point.

Yes there are under 21 teams, basically every soccer club has them. Look it up.
Lol dude is this what your resorting to now? Jumping on my join date? As if that completely disqualifies anything I've said. Is that the new cool thing?
Again with the young soccer clubs, my god man! Thanks as I've said, it does translate. No one watches soccer either!
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:58 PM #12
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No one watches soccer. HAHAHA and i bet you think no one watches NASCAR either. Except its more watched than football baseball and basketball combined lol.

and thats what i mean samurois. Its all about attitude and setting a good example on and off the field. Thats huge to our sport and over the past 5 years it has changed for the better.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:03 AM #13
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I believe this entire 6th page is missing the original point of the thread. The point of the thread is to discus the success, or lack thereof, of New England teams and future opportunities for our sport in the lense of a competitive atmosphere.

The "Is paintball a conventional sport?" topic has been discussed countless times and never goes anywhere. Rather than attacking people's join dates, maybe we should try to return to the original issue, although I feel like everything that everything productive to the conversation was already said.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:08 AM #14
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I understand NGS but ya know im sorry i cant let someone "lurk" and decide to join to just post stuff that is absolutely wrong. Paintball is in a hard time and yes its harder to get sponsorships but is most certainly not dieng and more than are economy is going through a rought patch. And well if i went to another type of forum and just instantly joined and decided that i was master of the universe then some well informed person would probably say the same. I dont wanna bicker anymore i just want NE paintball and US paintball as a whole to progress and i try to take a positive but realistic view of the entire cituation (spell check on that). But New Englander if you want me to show how paintball is now just pm me and let me know. Ill be glad to show you the ropes and introduce you to some people unless you are seasoned vet? Please dont be some country bumpkin BDU wearing sniper lol.

ps i love woods ball still haha.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:58 AM #15
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Ding Dong, for the last time. I never said paintball is dieing. Is your reading comprehension that bad?

The NFL has the highest TV ratings of all sports in the United States. You honestly want to add up all the fans who buy tickets for all the major league games in the MLB, NFL and NBA then compare it to how many tickets get sold for a Nascar season?

You have to honestly be pretty stupid to think this is my first time on PBNation. I've been around since Team Green.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:07 AM #16
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New Englander i think you need to step out of the woods and open your eyes to a new world. paintball has been progressing for many years but is stuck with the current position of the economy. And i think your reading comprehension is a little off. IF YOU READ CORRECTLY he stated that SOCCER is the most viewed sport. more than Baseball, Basketball, and Football combined together. if you look at most extreme sports you will also see the same thing. they are stuck in a slump due to the rising costs in today's economy. There is just not enough money in most extreme sports to jump over this hurdle. Also may be you should go to a national and see all the people in the stands watching teenagers shoot eachother with paint filled balls. i think you would find is rather confusing. QQ some where else
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:31 AM #17
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I Heartsign Muffins. Also i cant believe we got our own thread.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:48 AM #18
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Originally Posted by New Englander View Post
Lol dude is this what your resorting to now? Jumping on my join date? As if that completely disqualifies anything I've said. Is that the new cool thing?
Again with the young soccer clubs, my god man! Thanks as I've said, it does translate. No one watches soccer either!
lmao, you fail. Even if that was true, there would be one significantly good reason, almost every country in the world plays soccer (futbol) That being said, a lot of those countries don't have television or cable.
Soccer, in all honesty, is the LARGEST sport in the world. In my opinion, it easily surpasses Football, Baseball, MX, BMX, Paintball, and everything else put together.
And with extreme sports dying, or waning, that is BS. In central florida, we have hundreds of BMX and MX tracks. We have 20 fields in the area. Yes, 2 dyed this year, but FOUR MORE CAME IN. This sport is growing amazingly fast, and not only this sport, the genre of extreme sports. BMX made it into the olympics. That is a huge step for extreme sports.
And with the whole, sports getting younger thing. THis is true. But let's ponder over what would happen if they got older. We would have a bunch of old farts running around, and there would be no appeal to young peple, THE FUTURE OF THE SPORT. The sport would die, no question.
Travis Pastrana, one of the legendary names of extreme sports, started motocross at 7 years old. He turned pro at 14, and did his first television event at 15. Motocross is full of 16-25 year old riders. There is a 1% of riders, in that sport, and many extreme sports, of old guys.

And to your original post. Nothing changing over the years? lol. NCPA was hosted on Fox. I recorded it, I know for a fact. Every day, paintball is put on fo an hour on ESPN. Paintball has it's own few channels. Yes, high up on the channel list, but they are there. Paintball has it's own TV shows. Hell, that one series (forgot the name) over the pro's was on Fox for a month or so. That was a HUGE step forward. Also, look at all of the new companies that are popping up, look at all the new fields that are popping up, look at all of the new tournaments that are popping up. Hell, even look at the different Speedball formats. I can name 5 or 6.... At the NCPA finals, we had around 100 people in the stands watching. On the other fields, there were always 20+ peopel watching. At World Cup, there were easily 300 people in the stands. On the other fields, there were actual stands that were ALWAYS full, just like normal baseball games.

Apart from anything I have said, you lost the argument in the first three posts. You are very repitive. Crap is throwing new points across, and all you do is repeat your little lines, and on top of that, they're bad lines. You twisted his words into something he did not say.

If you are going to get into a deep debate with a person again on a subject matter like this, please do a lot of research, for you have just wasted 30 minutes of your, obviously, valuab;e life ranting to no cause.

If you want to flame, on subject, in this thread. Off topic, PM please.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:54 AM #19
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:15 AM #20
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Ding Dong, for the last time. I never said paintball is dieing. Is your reading comprehension that bad?
Quote:
Also, thanks for looking up the definition of wan, though I clearly used waning.

1: to decrease in size, extent, or degree : dwindle : as a: to diminish in phase or intensity —used chiefly of the moon, other satellites, and inferior planets b: to become less brilliant or powerful : dim c: to flow out : ebb 2: to fall gradually from power, prosperity, or influence
Sounds a lot like dieing to me...
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:34 PM #21
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Guys...don't get all delusional here. We will still be having this discussion 5 years from now.

It's never going to get to the level where there are true pro's being paid to compete. What sets paintball apart from most other Extreme Sports is that it is team based not individual. There is little real name recognition outside of our inner circle.

Yet I know BMX, Skate Board, Inline, MotoX etc people. While not even watching or participating in those sports. They have become mainstream. Something that will probably never happen with paintball.

Paintballs Tournament structure and landscape is way too fractured and messy right now. At one time there was 5 man and 10 man, then 7 man. That was pretty much it at the top. Nows there's competing leagues using different formats with the same players playing on different teams etc.....

Early on in this sport we got to know the top teams, The Iornmen, Aftershock, All Americans, Bad Company, Image and so on. It was so much easier to place a name with a team. Now the teams are for the most part faceless husks being whored out to some extent.

I honestly think tournament paintball has lost it's identity in the boom of a few years ago.

Once everyone understands that it is just not ever going ot be a mainstream sport, cleans up the crap things will smoothen out.

Were just never going to see paintball tournament reporting on sports center.
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