The Real News About Nerve - Page 5 - PbNation
Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

 
Archived Thread - Cannot Edit  
Old 09-17-2003, 02:29 PM #85
TeamDescent
 
 
TeamDescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southern Maryland
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Dave/ Gen-E, Toxic Performance
Gen-X what?
Actually they make a custom Impulse and Trix. Check the site for it all.
__________________
I'm not your brah.
TeamDescent is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 09-17-2003, 04:19 PM #86
not_manbot
Banned
 
not_manbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: not in the bowling alley
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by EvilPopTart
exactly. I hope he reads that post and understand how foolish that made him.


Dave- Forgive me if I am wrong, but dosent Gen-X just make cocker aftermarket parts like pnuematics, regs, frames, and bolts? If you guys dont make an electric marker I wouldnt see why they would go after you.
he works for Gen-E not Gen-X and Gen-X now makes an electro cocker anyways
not_manbot is offline  
Old 09-17-2003, 04:41 PM #87
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Generation E is the company that used to sell/produce Matrix markers before DYE bought out those rights. Gen-E still makes awesome aftermarket parts for Matrices and has great customer service.

Two things you won't necessarily get from Gen-X (the mainly autococker company), unless you buy their guns
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline  
Old 09-17-2003, 07:53 PM #88
EvilPopTart
Moderator
 
EvilPopTart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South Carolina
Annual Supporting Member
EvilPopTart is a Moderator
EvilPopTart is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
EvilPopTart is BST Trusted
EvilPopTart is playing at Living Legends VII
EvilPopTart is Boss
oh sorry I misread. damn these stupid eyes of mine. thanks for clearing it up with a good attitude.
EvilPopTart is offline  
Old 09-17-2003, 08:40 PM #89
Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
 
 
Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Beaver Falls, PA
 has been a member for 10 years
If you want to call me foolish go right ahead... I just read it from HSW site... so if you want to call me foolish, I guess you are calling them foolish too... I tried to find where they said it on their site, but they have new news about the Shocker and its internals, so I cant find where they said it. I will keep looking. I was just trying to give an explanation to the person about how it works, and from what I understand the pause is not like OTHER guns. Its different to make it more like a closed bolt marker.
__________________
Its time to get back in this game of games....
Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman is offline  
Old 09-17-2003, 08:45 PM #90
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
I think das explained that the bolt does not stop moving... this means it doesn't "pause." But, because of the spool valve design, it is literally impossible for air to be let out before the bolt is all the way forward. Here's a matrix animation to give you an idea of what I'm saying (since they use the same spool valve design, they're almost identical)

__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline  
Old 09-17-2003, 10:14 PM #91
Dave
 
 
Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Dave is a founding member
As far as I know both the shocker and matrix are open bolt in ever sense of the word. The way I see it, if a bolt is releasing air in its forward travel it's open bolt. If the gun goes bang and the bolt then travels backward to chamber a ball it's closed bolt.

If you've ever looked at the new, less exciting Matrix box, there is no reference to "closed bolt operation" like the old one has.

Gen-E continues to sell Matrix's and we make a whole lovely line of aftermarket parts and accessories for many snazzy markers, including the Matrix, Model 98, Impulse, Angel, etc.

thanks!
dave
__________________
Cousins Paintball Retail Manager
CTS Event Promoter
Planet Eclipse Certified Tech

Play the Largest Series in NY
Cousinspaintball.com
shopcousins.com
Dave is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 06:26 AM #92
EvilPopTart
Moderator
 
EvilPopTart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South Carolina
Annual Supporting Member
EvilPopTart is a Moderator
EvilPopTart is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
EvilPopTart is BST Trusted
EvilPopTart is playing at Living Legends VII
EvilPopTart is Boss
Quote:
Originally posted by Treghc
I think das explained that the bolt does not stop moving... this means it doesn't "pause." But, because of the spool valve design, it is literally impossible for air to be let out before the bolt is all the way forward. Here's a matrix animation to give you an idea of what I'm saying (since they use the same spool valve design, they're almost identical)

i hope Gen-E (i guess) sues the hell out of Smart parts...
EvilPopTart is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 07:38 AM #93
Eyecare
 
 
Eyecare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: P l a n e t E a r t h
Eyecare is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
The following quote is from the '03 Shocker manual:
Quote:
The Shocker is an open bolt, seal forward marker. Seal Forward Technology (SFT) is unique to the 2003 Shocker. SFT allows the Shocker to be an open bolt marker, while still having the breech seal a split second before the ball is fired, like a closed bolt. By sealing the breech before the ball is fired, the Shocker is able to have accuracy and trajectory like a traditional closed bolt, but also the rates of fire and simplicity of an open bolt.
Of course, this means that the Shocker is an OPEN BOLT gun. But if they patent their "SFT technology" first maybe they can sue the other companies for using like technology?
__________________
"If we measured rof in $/min instead of bps, more people would play stock."

Pics of my guns

Doc's SP Patent FAQ and related article
Eyecare is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 07:47 AM #94
Eyecare
 
 
Eyecare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: P l a n e t E a r t h
Eyecare is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
The way I see it, if a bolt is releasing air in its forward travel it's open bolt. If the gun goes bang and the bolt then travels backward to chamber a ball it's closed bolt.
It's my understanding that a closed bolt is one that has it's breech closed while at rest while in an open bolt it's open. That's why I think closed bolts have the potential to be a bit more accurate on the first shot or any time the gun is shooting slow enough for the gun to be still before firing. Once you get a close bolt firing at higher rofs, things are moving so fast that there really isn't a huge difference in performance as has been shown in studies.
__________________
"If we measured rof in $/min instead of bps, more people would play stock."

Pics of my guns

Doc's SP Patent FAQ and related article
Eyecare is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 08:46 AM #95
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally posted by EvilPopTart
i hope Gen-E (i guess) sues the hell out of Smart parts...
Gen-E and Smart Parts have a good relationship between each other. Why would gen-e want to sue smart parts in the first place? First, they can't. The spool valve design is older than you think and is not only used on Matrices. Secondly, you can't patent something that has been out for over a year to the general public. Thirdly, SP didn't exactly copy the design. They actually used their heads and made a better one. The design is cleaner and requires less parts than the Matrix one.
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 09:21 AM #96
Dave
 
 
Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Dave is a founding member
Dye owns the patent to the matrix spool valve design, thus is theirs to protect/ worry about.

we're not suing anybody, anytime soon.

dave/ gen-e
__________________
Cousins Paintball Retail Manager
CTS Event Promoter
Planet Eclipse Certified Tech

Play the Largest Series in NY
Cousinspaintball.com
shopcousins.com
Dave is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 09:51 AM #97
Impact101
Looks Good
 
Impact101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Annual Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Forgive me for being an idiot if i am...
Hasn't the paintball industry in the past remained relitively free of patents? Autococker have been copied many times but no patent has been put on the autococker mode of operation but the name has been copyrighted or something like that. Could you give me the details on the history of patenting in the paintball world?
__________________
Canadian automated flexible lean manufacturing co.
Impact101 is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 12:54 PM #98
Eyecare
 
 
Eyecare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: P l a n e t E a r t h
Eyecare is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Doc's patent FAQ and related article that I've linked to in my sig explains some of the history. There have been a few attempts at suits before (like imitating AC bodies)but nothing came of them.
__________________
"If we measured rof in $/min instead of bps, more people would play stock."

Pics of my guns

Doc's SP Patent FAQ and related article
Eyecare is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 02:22 PM #99
EvilPopTart
Moderator
 
EvilPopTart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South Carolina
Annual Supporting Member
EvilPopTart is a Moderator
EvilPopTart is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
EvilPopTart is BST Trusted
EvilPopTart is playing at Living Legends VII
EvilPopTart is Boss
Quote:
Originally posted by Treghc
Secondly, you can't patent something that has been out for over a year to the general public.

right... ok then can someone explain to me how Smart Parts is doing this? Or does the expansion of the patent go under this rule?
EvilPopTart is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 04:44 PM #100
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
expanding a patent is different. If you have something patented, it's yours for 10 years. You can do anything you want with it, as long as the government decides it's okay. Expanding a patent is perfectly legal if it's OK'd by the proper authorities.
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 07:23 PM #101
madgoat33
Banned
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Homewood,IL
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
What they are doing is perfectly legal though. I am not condoning what SP is doing, but they are well within their legal rights to sue ICD. If you would read up on this stuff, you would know that SP talked to many electro manufacturers years ago, i.e. AGD and WDP, about settling so they didnt have to take them to court. The companies laughed in their faces. SP is just looking after what legally belongs to them, and they are going out to get the money. Like I said, I am not condoning them, but Adam and Billy Gardener are business men. Business is exactly what it is. BUSINESS. They are looking out for themselves.
what i don't understand is how they are patenting crap that they didn't invent and that was already out.....
madgoat33 is offline  
Old 09-18-2003, 09:16 PM #102
Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
 
 
Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Beaver Falls, PA
 has been a member for 10 years
It doesnt matter if they didnt invent it first. They were the first to file and get the patent. Other companies that had the technology just didnt get the patent first, but I really cant think of a whole lot of companies that had the same kind of technology at the time the first Shocker came out.
__________________
Its time to get back in this game of games....
Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman is offline  
Old 09-19-2003, 05:56 AM #103
EvilPopTart
Moderator
 
EvilPopTart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South Carolina
Annual Supporting Member
EvilPopTart is a Moderator
EvilPopTart is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
EvilPopTart is BST Trusted
EvilPopTart is playing at Living Legends VII
EvilPopTart is Boss
I know the original Angel was a compeditor.



Yea the whole who gets it first has been going on a long while. Even Thomas Edison has gotten shafted out of a couple of his ideas.
EvilPopTart is offline  
Old 01-22-2004, 05:52 PM #104
impyrunner246
Yea I hit that
 
impyrunner246's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: 434 VA
 has been a member for 10 years
There are different story's and sides to this. I do believe it was a good move buiss. wise. While ethicly i dont condone it for the one reason that it may hinder the growth of paintball.I do hope everything gets resolved , but if i was SP i would have done the same thing.Call me a thief or whatever you want .. but its nothing personal , just buiss. FYI im not a fan of the people that run SP but of there goods.
__________________
AGD - We haven't chopped a ball in years, but nobody believes us...

Feedback - http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...hreadid=517887
impyrunner246 is offline  
Old 01-22-2004, 06:28 PM #105
EvilPopTart
Moderator
 
EvilPopTart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: South Carolina
Annual Supporting Member
EvilPopTart is a Moderator
EvilPopTart is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
EvilPopTart is BST Trusted
EvilPopTart is playing at Living Legends VII
EvilPopTart is Boss
welcome to 4 months ago.
EvilPopTart is offline  
 




Posting Rules
Forum Jump