New Viking!!! - Page 2 - PbNation
Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

 
Archived Thread - Cannot Edit  
Old 10-23-2001, 05:18 PM #22
Chemmy
Banned
 
Chemmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: 7th Circle, Hell
 has been a member for 10 years
Well, I guess you got us all there.
Chemmy is offline  
Old 10-23-2001, 07:41 PM #23
Styles *****ley
GREY POWER
 
Styles *****ley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: South Carolina
Styles *****ley is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by grinch
will it have a wholesale markup on it of over $20.00 or will i have to morgage my house to order 100 so i can get a decent price break on them?
The Viking is manufactured by AKA.
__________________
P220 ST.
Styles *****ley is offline  
Old 10-24-2001, 11:12 PM #24
Paulis
 
 
Paulis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
 has been a member for 10 years
Pictures?

Wheren't we supposed to see pictures last night?

Where are they?
Paulis is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 02:05 AM #25
badchad
 
 
badchad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
 has been a member for 10 years
Image from Auctionjunkie, who is at world cup..
badchad is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 12:40 PM #26
TRIXER321
 
 
TRIXER321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Lafayette,LA
TRIXER321 is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Im seriously thinking about getting one of these. How much are they?


~Ryan
TRIXER321 is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 12:54 PM #27
Ri0T
Mad Scientist At Work...
 
Ri0T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Ri0T is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
If the bolt is still connected to the right lower tube, that means they moved the valve to the right tube, right? I'm curious of the internal layout. With one ram missing, it seems as if there'd be alot of extra room.
Ri0T is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 03:15 PM #28
Reciprocity
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
Auctionjunkie! posted..

Quote:
MSRP is $775. They already have pre-orders for 3 after the first day of the tournament! I will get some pix and hopefully a video of it tomorrow. I was busy working (LOL, is it work if you love it?) on Excaliburs today. Okay I was actually upping the ROF and doing preventive maintenance on Excaliburs. As far as I know there wasn't a single failure with any Excalibur. Look in the Tournament/NPPL forum late this evening for some pix and thoughts from World Cup.
I think this is the smartest thing AKA has done in a long time. By basing the new Viking on the Excal platform, they will be able to lower the cost on both items. Since they both use the same bodies, same bolts, same vavles, same solenoids.. and so on. They can get better price breaks on the materials needed thus lowering the total cost. If they where really smart, they would keep the MSRP in the same place and reduce the whole sale cost as much as possible to get more dealers interested. WDP and WGP are bigger becuase they where able to get dealers interested in their products and they sold 10x more then they would have that way. AKA makes the best products that no one knows about. Only the 'In the know' people know that the merlin and vlm bodies where far superior to there STO and other knockoff competitors. And though the Excal may not be far superior to its competitors, it is defitately a competitor and needs to be on the shelf next to the angel and the store owner needs to be able to tell the customer that the company that makes it offers a lifetime warrenty, otherwise the customer is gonna be choosing between an Angel and a bm2k instead of an Angel and an Excal.

I also think that AKA needs to think about investing it whatever it takes to do there own anodizing. That would also lower their overall cost and give them the ability to expand their product line with more SKU's based on milling and anno options. Again, lower the cost and increasing profit margins or allowing them to offer a lower wholesale cost to dealers and companies like Grinches who want to offer a custome line of their products but cant do so and maintain profitability.

I am sure AKA knows all of this, and I wouldnt be surprised if they arent thinking some of the same things. I am just not that patiant.

Also.. when is the damn BDS gonna come out. I might get a whole new excal when it does with some trick milling/anno.
__________________
Excal #200 with New Board and New LED Tray.
Shocktech Rail Drop Forward.
68/45 Angel AIR.
www.walkonkings.com
Reciprocity is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 07:10 PM #29
Sparrow
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Kingsport, TN
 has been a member for 10 years
yeah, what he said.

jt
__________________
Excalibur-custom blue #215
Sparrow is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 07:41 PM #30
Cursed Frogurt
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
 has been a member for 10 years
Reciprocity, I don't think that reducing the wholesale cost would help anything at this point in time. Because I don't think that AKALMP is willing to reduce it that far down. You have to remember that most paintball shops are not major chains like Wal Mart or such. They don't have the capitol to buy the "Angel" and the "Excal" for people to choose from. Most paintball shops are own by avid paintball players or ex paintball players. Most of them are millionaires. And I also remember reading an article in APG about how AKALMP just bought, I believe, 7 new machines that cost about a quarter of a million a piece. So I don't think they will reduce their wholesale nor retail price anytime soon. And also AKALMP releasing their Excalibur that late comparitively to the Angel makes it even harder for them to compete with the WDP. Most people think of Angel just like the slogon says "Most Advanced Paintball Marker in the World" if you ask them about the Excalibur most people will go "whats that???"

MSRP. I don't know if you have realized it or not but most people don't even think about the MSRP let alone follow it. so if they reduce their cost then some A-Hole will reduce the retail price in hope of undercutting the competition and selling more of them. And they can't reduce the MSRP because then that will just devalue the gun. For example if the Angel came out priced at 500 dollars then right now everyone would think of it as a Brittish BM2k, the fact that they kept it at 1000+ dollars keeps its uniqueness and such up there. Another reason that they can't reduce the MSRP is because if they do it will piss the "already owners of the Excalibur" off.

And to address your point about the Merlin being better then the STO body. Does it really matter??? Think about it, the Merlin is better becuase it is more efficient. So for example(not real numbers but just to prove a point) off of a 68/3000 tank you get maybe 600 shots on a STO and on a Merlin maybe 775. The difference is 175 but on my gauge i'd imagine about maybe 400 psi. The operating pressure on a STO I believe is 400psi so that means that the tank on the Merlin will be on 800 which is respectively a lot better. but think about it if you see your gauge is on 800 psi what are you going to do on your break??? Fill the damn thing up. Even if I was on 1000 I'd fill it up. So does that little bit of extra efficincy matter?? I mean to fill my scuba tank it costs 1 dollar and I can play almost 2 days on that. So what is the difference?
Cursed Frogurt is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 08:24 PM #31
Reciprocity
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
And to address your point about the Merlin being better then the STO body. Does it really matter??? Think about it, the Merlin is better becuase it is more efficient. So for example(not real numbers but just to prove a point) off of a 68/3000 tank you get maybe 600 shots on a STO and on a Merlin maybe 775. The difference is 175 but on my gauge i'd imagine about maybe 400 psi. The operating pressure on a STO I believe is 400psi so that means that the tank on the Merlin will be on 800 which is respectively a lot better. but think about it if you see your gauge is on 800 psi what are you going to do on your break??? Fill the damn thing up. Even if I was on 1000 I'd fill it up. So does that little bit of extra efficincy matter?? I mean to fill my scuba tank it costs 1 dollar and I can play almost 2 days on that. So what is the difference?
Yes it does matter, and the Merlin body kit isnt just better, its far superior. It is the efficancy that is the main point. Its the performance. A stock STO opporates at about 350psi and gets decent efficancy. A Merlin would opporate closer to 180-200psi at its peek efficiancy which would be atleast 20% beter then the stock STO. That is flat out better performance.

Quote:
MSRP. I don't know if you have realized it or not but most people don't even think about the MSRP let alone follow it. so if they reduce their cost then some A-Hole will reduce the retail price in hope of undercutting the competition and selling more of them. And they can't reduce the MSRP because then that will just devalue the gun. For example if the Angel came out priced at 500 dollars then right now everyone would think of it as a Brittish BM2k, the fact that they kept it at 1000+ dollars keeps its uniqueness and such up there. Another reason that they can't reduce the MSRP is because if they do it will piss the "already owners of the Excalibur" off.
MSRP is Manufactures sugested retail price. If the MSRP is 1200 on an angel and the MSRP is 1200 on an Excal, all I am saying is match the wholesale cost of the Angel and make it as atractive to resellers as the Angel. Its not brain surgury and I Didnt say lower the wholesale amount to some rediculusly low amount, just a competitive amount.

Quote:
Reciprocity, I don't think that reducing the wholesale cost would help anything at this point in time. Because I don't think that AKALMP is willing to reduce it that far down. You have to remember that most paintball shops are not major chains like Wal Mart or such. They don't have the capitol to buy the "Angel" and the "Excal" for people to choose from. Most paintball shops are own by avid paintball players or ex paintball players. Most of them are millionaires. And I also remember reading an article in APG about how AKALMP just bought, I believe, 7 new machines that cost about a quarter of a million a piece. So I don't think they will reduce their wholesale nor retail price anytime soon. And also AKALMP releasing their Excalibur that late comparitively to the Angel makes it even harder for them to compete with the WDP. Most people think of Angel just like the slogon says "Most Advanced Paintball Marker in the World" if you ask them about the Excalibur most people will go "whats that???"
Angels are sold in Kmart. Angels are sold at almost every paintball store I have been in my area, socal. Angels are sold on every major paintball site on the internet. Excals are not. The reason they arnt is the wholesale price is to high and there is no profit margin in it. People are better off getting them from AKA at MSRP, cause they can get exactly what they want and not have to chose from the 3 that the store could afford to buy.

They ask "whats that???" cuase when they go to there paintball store there isnt one sitting next to the Angel in the display case. And there isnt a sales person to say, "Well thats an Excal, here touch it!" Here is a slogan for you, "Better then the most advanced paintball gun in the world." with an arrow pointing at the Angel.

It doesn matter how much money they spent on Machines. You can either sell more items at a lower profit margin or sell less items at a higher profit margin. The best thing is to come in somewhere in the middle and make them atleast appealing to resellers. Especially those who sell custom versions for an even higher price, which would add to the perceived value of the base units. Its not as pretty but it shoots just the same for $400 less, thats a great value. If the Excal had some nice milling and anno as the stock it would actually be closer to the Dark Angel in value and would be about $100 cheaper.
__________________
Excal #200 with New Board and New LED Tray.
Shocktech Rail Drop Forward.
68/45 Angel AIR.
www.walkonkings.com
Reciprocity is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 10:30 PM #32
poopstain
jesus is my son
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: stuart.Fl
 has been a member for 10 years
i shot the viking today at cu and man that thing is bad asz the trigger has a nice sweet spot and you can bounce it for a while it is really nice aka will also release an antichop eye for this gun for the money the gun exeded my expectations
poopstain is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 11:22 PM #33
Reciprocity
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
I have to admit.. I own an Excal and would have bought the a nicely milled/anno'd Viking for less money if they where out. Hell I still might! I am really waiting for the bds.
__________________
Excal #200 with New Board and New LED Tray.
Shocktech Rail Drop Forward.
68/45 Angel AIR.
www.walkonkings.com
Reciprocity is offline  
Old 10-26-2001, 11:59 PM #34
grinch
here we go........
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southern detroit
 has been a member for 10 years
the bottom line as a dealer is that they simply dont leave us room for markup on a gun or any other part they make. and as far as cheaper wholesale? the day I see that will be the day a gold brick drops from my @ss.
Im not trying to sound bitter..I have an excalibur..I was factory certified to repair them and I was going to release my own custom version of the gun.. But theirs just no markup on them..the other problem is..A.K.A. builds a very good gun..to good...so much so thats theirs no return sales for anything on the gun..you cant use a different bolt..you cant use a different valve..their are no highrises for it and from what they say you cant use a different reg for it either. Also when i was going to do a custom excalibur ( anyone remmber the havocs?)A.K.A didnt really seem to care weather they got them finnished for me or not..nore wher they willing to cut me a price break on them or give me an exclusive on milling of some kind...nothing....
Another problem....I have spoken with KAPP, DYE, everyone..people in these companies and many others WILL not support anything A.K.A does they will not make products for the gun... and would rather they just fall off the planet.. Its weird becuase people in paintball ussualy dont stand together on to many issues but pretty much everyone hates A.K.A.
I think it has to do with all the lawsuits that they have ben involved in..not sure.
what it came down to for me was..."Hoom..sell a gun that I wont make any money on from a company that could care less about me and has no 3rd party support...or move on to matrixes and bushys that i can make some money on......"
Dont get me wrong..A.K.A has their reasons for what they do..Im just not sure and dont really care anymore about what they are. I like the stuff A.K.A. does, I like their products alot but they seem greedy.
I push their products so much at my shop becuase they work..but then agien so do alot of others as well..I tind to want to help the small guys out. But I get the impresion that A.K.A. dosnt really give to hoots about their dealers and thats a bad thing becuase were the people that sell the stuff and support it.
anyways as much as this may have sounded like a flame it isnt Im just bringing up a few points.
Heres one more before i forget too.. remember the cost of the original viking?? wasnt that insane? and that wasnt with a grip!
didnt anyone see a problem with that? my wholesale cost was only like 30.00 cheaper or somthing..that was when I figured it was time to move on.
well my spelling is really really bad plus I have a few drinks in me and this post is getting really long so I'll end it now.
thanks for reading though and I hope I made a few valid points.
__________________
downriver detroits only state of the art indoor and now outdoor paintball arena.
hyperinfo@comcast.net
www.hyperpaintballarena.com
balling is our biss!
grinch is offline  
Old 10-28-2001, 08:46 PM #35
Cursed Frogurt
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Yes it does matter, and the Merlin body kit isnt just better, its far superior. It is the efficancy that is the main point. Its the performance. A stock STO opporates at about 350psi and gets decent efficancy. A Merlin would opporate closer to 180-200psi at its peek efficiancy which would be atleast 20% beter then the stock STO. That is flat out better performance.
Like you said the STO needs 350 psi. And the merlin needs 180. So I'm saying is that most people(maybe not you because you are special) when they see their gauge on their gun hit 700 or so they are thinking refill. In that case when they fill and are up to 3000 again who cares 180 or 350? Where I'm from it costs 4 bucks to fill up a whole scuba tank. And that can last me a whole day running on a regular 2001 vert feed cocker. So what I say is that if you can't afford using the extra gas then don't play. Paintball is expensive if you can't afford 4 bucks then get out of the sport.


Quote:
MSRP is Manufactures sugested retail price. If the MSRP is 1200 on an angel and the MSRP is 1200 on an Excal, all I am saying is match the wholesale cost of the Angel and make it as atractive to resellers as the Angel. Its not brain surgury and I Didnt say lower the wholesale amount to some rediculusly low amount, just a competitive amount.
I think most everyone knows what MSRP is. what I'm saying is even if you match the wholesale price of the Excalibur it won't matter. Most people think of the best paintgun in the world to be the Angel. And even if you reduce it to the same as the Angel about 975-1000 most people store owners will still go for the Angel because it is more widely known and in their minds they want their money back plus a couple of bucks. Not everyone owner is rich, they have a budget and most of them can't afford to throw 2000 dollars around, because face it, how often is it that people come in a store and shell out that kind of money for a paintball gun. Yes there are SOME stores that have Angel LCD for sale. But guess what thats most likely the ONLY ONE that they have in the whole place anymore and they require a deposit and special order. Also if you reduce the wholesale price to 1000 I bet you some paintball shop will want to push them and sell it for like 1050 and if they can't maybe 1025. Which is good for you and I but not good for the Excalibur value. I think what AKA does isn't perfect but if it works don't fix it. If AKA wants to push their products maybe they should offer better support as Grinch suggested.(read his post)



Quote:
Angels are sold in Kmart. Angels are sold at almost every paintball store I have been in my area, socal. Angels are sold on every major paintball site on the internet. Excals are not. The reason they arnt is the wholesale price is to high and there is no profit margin in it. People are better off getting them from AKA at MSRP, cause they can get exactly what they want and not have to chose from the 3 that the store could afford to buy.
I didn't know Angels were sold in Kmart?? oh well, I dont' know maybe you only go to 3 paintball shops and they might have only 1 Angel in stock, Like I said before thats their only one anymore then that in the same day is called special order. One reason that the Excal is not in paintball places, that you might have not though of is that, most all paintball shops get their stuff from maybe 2 suppliers(someone that has a variety of stuff). One reason might be because their supplier doesn't have the Excal. Another thing that you said that has made me conclude that you have no idea of the business world is when you said that every major paintball site sells Angels. Do you know how paintball sites work?? and how they can get low prices?? its because they usually don't stock ANYTHING. And if they do its the stuff that sells more often(i.e. Spyders, Boomsticks and such) not Angels. I bet you if you order and Angel online they collect all of the orders that day or week and then go to their supplier and pick it up. Actually this is how most all paintball places work. Also altering someone elses slogan is pretty lame. How unoriginal, I'm sure AKA doens't want have a rep of copying people.

Quote:
It doesn matter how much money they spent on Machines. You can either sell more items at a lower profit margin or sell less items at a higher profit margin. The best thing is to come in somewhere in the middle and make them atleast appealing to resellers. Especially those who sell custom versions for an even higher price, which would add to the perceived value of the base units. Its not as pretty but it shoots just the same for $400 less, thats a great value. If the Excal had some nice milling and anno as the stock it would actually be closer to the Dark Angel in value and would be about $100 cheaper.
What do you mean it doesn't matter how much they have spent on their machines?? Here is a little math for you, if they have bought 7 new machines at 250,000 a piece guess what? that equals 1.75 million. I can almost guarantee you that AKA did not have 1.75 million in their bank account waiting to be used. Its called finance and banks dont' finanace at not charge, there is something in this world called "interest", yes thats right banks charge you for using their "money" . And also guess what? You have to pay them back in a certain time period. And that means more overhead. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you know what "overhead" means. I'm sure AKA knows what they are doing. And they charge that much to recover their money and pay the people at the banks back.

I'm not sure if you just learned Economics in High School, or even are studying it in college, but here is a word of advice all that Sh|t you learn in books 90% of that doesn't apply to the real world. And there are so many twists and turns that you must learn. I haven't learned all of it but apparently I have learned more then you. Ok I think I've vented again. And also thanks Reciprocity your posts and reponses are the funniest thing I have read all day. Now I'm a happy man.
Cursed Frogurt is offline  
Old 10-28-2001, 10:46 PM #36
Reciprocity
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Like you said the STO needs 350 psi. And the merlin needs 180. So I'm saying is that most people(maybe not you because you are special) when they see their gauge on their gun hit 700 or so they are thinking refill. In that case when they fill and are up to 3000 again who cares 180 or 350? Where I'm from it costs 4 bucks to fill up a whole scuba tank. And that can last me a whole day running on a regular 2001 vert feed cocker. So what I say is that if you can't afford using the extra gas then don't play. Paintball is expensive if you can't afford 4 bucks then get out of the sport.
Can you even read? What does filling your bottle when its low have to do with efficiancy and performace? When you fill has nothing to do with how many shots you get from a fill. Take a tourney player who maybe filling his own tanks off a scuba and can only get say 2500 psi tops per fill. Some shoot more 8x150+200 per game, which is about normal for a back player. They demand high performance and any edge they can get will help them win. You can do that with Merlin and you cant with an STO. Period. My point was that the Merlin is a far superior body kit when compared to the STO. When you fill has nothing to do with the quality and the level of design of the parts. The Merlin is a far better design. Period. You can argue for a month and no inane meaningless argument you make will be good.

On the rest of your almost incoherent ramblings: Are you saying that it is a good idea that AKA alienates possible resellers? Are you saying it is a better idea to only give people one choice of where they get there AKA products? Do you think they are making another marker for a much reduced price, because they only want to sell 200 of them a year? Do you really think that AKA doesnít want there product in every store and on every website possible? Why do you think they bought millions of dollars in equipment? So they could sell 200 markers a year? Donít be a moron. They will make more money if they can get their product in front of as many people as possible and winning the hearts and minds of retailers is a good start. Retailers in this industry would love to sell a product of the quality of the Excal and I assume the Viking. When they sell one they donít have to worry about it coming back every 2 weeks for Warranty work. I could barely keep my STO working week in and week out without having Worr games right at the field I played at and Worr makes a damn good product. But no product they put out is near the quality of the Excal. Mine has gone 20 weeks without a problem. I was lucky if my STO went 2 weeks without a problem. I have broken 1 ball in my Excal in 20+ cases, I would break a couple a day or more with my STO.

Quote:
I'm not sure if you just learned Economics in High School, or even are studying it in college, but here is a word of advice all that Sh|t you learn in books 90% of that doesn't apply to the real world. And there are so many twists and turns that you must learn. I haven't learned all of it but apparently I have learned more then you. Ok I think I've vented again. And also thanks Reciprocity your posts and reponses are the funniest thing I have read all day. Now I'm a happy man.
I am sure everything we learned in HS and College was all wrong. No wonder itís hard to find a job now with only a college education we have been learning fallacies for to long. I certainly wasnít an Econ major but I can use a little bit of common sense. If you are able to produce more product you can order more parts and get better pricing on those parts and the raw materials needed. You then buy millions of dollars worth of equipment so you donít have to have each piece you make, made by hand. You can then lower your wholesale price and give retailers more incentive to sell your product over your competition. You can also more easily fulfill special orders like those from Grinch, cause you arenít doing the work by hand.

In the end, both of us are just speculating. Only the future will really prove either of us right or wrong. If I am right you will start to see the Excal and Viking carried in more stores and especially online stores where you would expect to see them now and donít. I have religiously checked a couple of big paintball websites and the Excal isnít there even though almost every other marker I have ever heard of is. I guarantee you that fact doesnít escape AKA and that fact doesnít make them Joyous. I also guarantee you that they are doing something about it and the Viking is a good step towards that goal, by giving them another product that uses many of the same parts as there current product line. This allows them to spread costs out over the 2 products and lower the cost of both of them. Now they can either take all that reduced cost in profit or they can lower their wholesale price and get there product into more places and sell a lot more product. Either way my original post remains accurate.
__________________
Excal #200 with New Board and New LED Tray.
Shocktech Rail Drop Forward.
68/45 Angel AIR.
www.walkonkings.com
Reciprocity is offline  
Old 10-28-2001, 10:52 PM #37
grinch
here we go........
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southern detroit
 has been a member for 10 years
I agree with you on almost all points cursed but ICD and WDP and WGP all have machines like that as well and they dont go insane on the price of their products..
When i was in the AKA factory I saw I think 3 machines as well and no their not cheap.. AKA also does things for arrow space and millitary though as well. paintball isnt their only source of income and use for their machines.
I have one of those bank loans that i get charged money on as well so I can relate.
the thing is if AKA wher to lower their price and leave more room for us dealers ( prices and customer service) then we would support them more. lary himself even said in a conversation that " Im learning that I have to give my dealers what they want or they wont deal with us" ..hoom..uh..yeah.
anyways
__________________
downriver detroits only state of the art indoor and now outdoor paintball arena.
hyperinfo@comcast.net
www.hyperpaintballarena.com
balling is our biss!
grinch is offline  
Old 10-29-2001, 01:06 AM #38
Calin
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Santa Cruz
Calin is a Moderator
Calin is a Supporting Member
Calin donated to help Peyton Trent
Calin supports Bob Gurnsey
Wow long post, hehehe. Anyhow I read all the posts and I have to say that Frogurt has the best points.

Reciprocity, I think you aren't seeing what he is saying about the STO and merlin thing. What he means is that a difference of performance 170, especially when they are so low doesn't matter because once you hit a certain point you will refill. So basically he is saying that you will never hit that low. but I also know what you(Reciprocity) are saying that it will save gas in the long run. But what Frogurt says in response is that its costs only 4 dollars to fill a scuba so the price difference is irrelevant.

And about the getting the product to everyone. I see that Frogurt is just saying that it will take time especially with WDP's dominance in the professional world. And as we know most people are sheep so they buy what they see pros using. And if you think about it if they are making good profit selling 200 guns means 200 grand. That ain't so bad especially with just releasing it.

I don't think he ever meant to say that he doesn't want success with AKA and even if we see more Vikings and Excal I don't think you are right and he is wrong.

I think you are both right. I think that Frogurt is seeing your point but you just aren't seeing his point. Perhaps it would be better not to speak from frustration of others correcting you. Remember we all need to learn. And this is a joint effort so lets not argue.

Lastly about your cocker. I think you have a faulty one or someone is messing with your gun. Because I have a cocker that I bought in 96 and I had it timed once then and up till now I still play with it and haven't had it mess up on my not even once. So perhaps you should get that checked. If you aren't sure if you are doing it right I suggest since you live in So Cal. Visit a place Called Xtreme Sports. Its in Upland, its a one man business but the one man is very reknown in the area to be the "Cocker Doctor" that is who timed my cocker and nothing has ever happened to it. The Phone number is (909)949-3937 and his name is Brandon. They open from Tuesday through Saturday from 11am - 7pm. I too have been to all of the paintball shops in So Cal and no one else knows anything about cockers. No I'm not promoting the store I'm just trying to help a fellow paintballer out. Oh if you going there I have a friend that wants to check out an Excal because he is thinking of buying one. his E-mail address is Calin15@hotmail.com Anyhow later
__________________
How can we disagree if we don't understand what we disagree about.

Truly "ignorant" people are those who call others "ignorant, misinformed, uninformed" and are the same people that have lost an argument.

Typos happen.
Calin is offline  
Old 10-29-2001, 11:15 AM #39
mezpo
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: pa
 has been a member for 10 years
heres where the efficiency is a factor. back players in a nppl ten man tourny sometimes carry on a case a paint per game. even with a 68 4500 tank the sto may run out of air but the merlin wont. this may not be important except to a few players but its still worth something. also it wont drop to 700 as fast so therefore you wont have to fill as often.
mezpo is offline  
Old 10-29-2001, 12:24 PM #40
Reciprocity
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
I fixed all my paintball marker problems when I got an Excal. It doesnt ever have problems.

Amen Mezpo you see the light. My whole point about the STO/Merlin comparison was the Quality and Performance and that only people "in the know" know about the level of Quality and Performance of AKA products. This would change if they where able to get there products into more stores. It can even be hard to find Lightening bolts and Tornado valves on-line and I have yet to see either at any paintball store I have been in. Sidewinders are a bit easier to find online but I yet to see one in a local paintball store and I frequent atleast 4 or 5 in SoCal, the meca of paintball.

Does anyone think that AKA will sell less product if they are able to lower there wholesale price to resellers? The only reason they wouldnt want to sell more product, is if they are not able to produce enough to keep up with demand. I doubt they spent a million+ on equiptment to sell a couple hundred markers a year.

Again, only time will tell. I bet money that AKA will lower its wholesale price and role out some nice insentives for resellers once there production is streamlined. The market for Mid to Highend elctro's is pretty good sized and they should be able to gain in market share pretty quickly. Either way, I hope they do well. I plan on my next marker being an AKA product, even though I am very happy with my Excal. Next time I wanna get some nicer milling and anno and I am really waiting on the BDS.
__________________
Excal #200 with New Board and New LED Tray.
Shocktech Rail Drop Forward.
68/45 Angel AIR.
www.walkonkings.com
Reciprocity is offline  
Old 10-29-2001, 01:38 PM #41
mezpo
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: pa
 has been a member for 10 years
the problem with aka is they do not go through a distributor. this is most likely because they cant produce enough products. hopefully with the new machines they will produce enough to be sold through a good distributor and then get the recognition they deserve.
mezpo is offline  
Old 10-29-2001, 04:56 PM #42
Cursed Frogurt
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
 has been a member for 10 years
Wow I haven't been here in a day and already that many posts on the same topic. I think this is the most responded to thread that I've been to.

Anyhow Reciprocity. I think you misunderstand me. I know that Lower Pressure is better. I know you can squeeze more shots out of a Merlin comparitively to an STO. So there you go I Undertand your point about the Merlin. I'm not so sure you get what I'm saying. Like you said the the peak performance of a Merlin is 180, and the average performance from an STO is 350. for me playing front and back and using both the Revenge and the Black Magic I don't see a difference. I still fill at about the same time.

Now as for the other "Lighted one." Mezpo, I understnad what you are saying and referring to. However, as far as I know a 68/4500 is enough to get through a case on an STO. Also most all of the so called "back-players" I know of use 88/4500 tanks, to prevent this situation.

No AKA will not sell less product if they lowered their price. I never stated that nor have I ever referred to it. Perhaps your interpretation is incorrect. What I'm stating is that if AKA does reduce its wholesale price that it wouldn't really do that much unless they reduced it signifigantly. Like the store owner Grinch has said he agrees with my point about most store owners are not willing to shell out about 2000 of their dollars on guns that don't sell to often. Believe it or not but if you don't sell a product within a certain ammount of time it starts to cost more. Becuase your money is stuck in that product, where as if you bought spyders and sold them everyday your money keeps on coming back which is called a "turn-over"

Oh yeah I agree over time AKA will sell more and more markers(assuming they don't drop their quality and service). But the major reason that they would sell more is not reducing the price, it would be the constant word of mouth advertising they are getting by you and mezpo and everyone else including myself. Like when the Angel came out it was at an unheard of price of over 1000 dollars. Most people were scared Paintball shops were uncertain to carry such a product with a hefty cost. But guess what people kept boasting about it. WDP didn't really reduce their wholesale price. They kept it the same and look at where they are now.

So I think you just read posts a different way then others and perhaps you have interpreted my points incorrectly. I dont' know where this "I bet...." came from, I'm not sure if you are trying to belittle me. I personally don't care, "I win some and I loose some" But I hate it when people think it is some kind of competition because of misunderstanding. This is the paintball community we are suppose to help each other. Not a competition where we try to kill each other(non business related)
Cursed Frogurt is offline  
 




Posting Rules
Forum Jump