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Old 12-28-2011, 03:43 AM #652
turnburglar
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. Price gouging newbs is great for the sport!!

Greg : "hey bob last week at our company get together we had a great time paintballing! Me and some of the guys where thinking about playing again later this month, want to come? "

Bob : "I could do that.... Or I could go downtown, rent a hotel room and roam the streets for hookers and blow! Get real. My 12 year old wants to go with a few friends for his birthday. No way I'm spending $600."

As a baller and an American that knows business : I see through your crap.

1. You don't help the industry at all. Infact your hurting it. What would you do if paint companies had to up their price 200% because they can't make a profit moving low volume? Would you then just charge a nice even $500 a case? So your not helping the paint companies ... Cool.

2. What about the rest of the industry? By only attracting renters how can PE, dye, and empire peddle their markers? What's that? They can't. I don't expect a first timer to drop a grand on a marker right away, but by not cultivating growth in players your killing those big companies. Even your "40%" of gear owners arnt excited to buy anything decent. No some old cockers with a pump arm doesn't help the Paintball industry. Nor does that spyder tl that has had 17 owners. So your screwing the industry on marker sales. Those companies don't just make markers. Masks, hoppers, packs, tanks, clothes.... Ect.

3. Stop quoting "how fun was it in the '80s when people only shot 500 balls! ". That's a weal argument at best. Main reason being : they didn't have a choice! Paint was expensive because it was such low volume because a) only 20 people in the whole country played Paintball (comical exaggeration) and b) they didn't have anything that could shoot fast. Games where much smaller player wise combined with a pump gun what would you expect?! Why don't you endorse shop goggles and have players chrono on tree bark? That should complete the retro -fun experience your seeking.

Like many others have said : tons of ways to be beginner friendly. In my days as a rec player I remember getting split into skill groups. At the age of 12 was I a little intimidated by Chris laysoya and rockie cagoni wrecking other jersey wearing "angel totting " players? Yes I was but damn did they give me something to aspire towards. Now I am on of those players. And I'm sure the thousands of dollars I have spent where appriciated by the industry. If you can't cover your over head any other way then to kill players on paint, you arnt a good business owner. My local field : located a mile from the Las vegas strip runs free admission wensdays. Me and a buddy often split a case of valken infinity ($45). Guess who normally shows up on wendsday? You guessed it! Divisional paintballers! And some renters too. We share the field with them and take extra care not to over shoot. Another day of the week he offers free rental packages and guess who shows up? Point proven?

End of rant : don't call your field a Paintball park. Call it "family cuddle paintball experience " or something. You are not portraying the only team oriented extreme sport like it should.
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:55 AM #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoobixKyoobe
What's the most overpriced place you have ever been to or played?

tell us where and when and how much

mine isnt really overpriced but really expensive

entry:20 dollars(10 on tuesdays and 15 on friday)
paint:55 dollars a case for diablo zen(used to be dxs bronze)
air:included in entry(i know some places charge extra for air)

this place is indoor though with heating, a/c, running water, but only 2 fields

its pretty cool place
My field is similar to that cost but I find it a sacred haven.
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:59 AM #654
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$27 for air and admission
~$40 for paint

Takes 40 minutes to drive, but I think everyone would say SC village is a good park.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:41 PM #655
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PBC in Mandeville, La. $75 case of rec grade paint
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:07 PM #656
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my field must be the only field that has the lowest rates...

for walk ons, its 13 for air and admission and 35 a case.

for my team, its just 25 a case..
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:24 PM #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95saturn
my field must be the only field that has the lowest rates...

for walk ons, its 13 for air and admission and 35 a case.

for my team, its just 25 a case..
Where is that?
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:01 PM #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
. Price gouging newbs is great for the sport!!

Greg : "hey bob last week at our company get together we had a great time paintballing! Me and some of the guys where thinking about playing again later this month, want to come? "

Bob : "I could do that.... Or I could go downtown, rent a hotel room and roam the streets for hookers and blow! Get real. My 12 year old wants to go with a few friends for his birthday. No way I'm spending $600."

As a baller and an American that knows business : I see through your crap.
I'm not sure if you were addressing me or not, but I do feel somewhat qualified to reply to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
1. You don't help the industry at all. Infact your hurting it. What would you do if paint companies had to up their price 200% because they can't make a profit moving low volume? Would you then just charge a nice even $500 a case? So your not helping the paint companies ... Cool.
When we first started, wholesale prices were approx. 100% higher than they are now and no, our prices were not higher. If they went up 200%,would we raise our paint prices? No, most likely not. If we had shortfalls, we would probably raise field fees and/or rental fees. The price we currently sell (and have virtually always) our paint at is what we deem just about right to create the atmosphere that is enjoyable to the largest portion of our geographical market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
2. What about the rest of the industry? By only attracting renters how can PE, dye, and empire peddle their markers? What's that? They can't. I don't expect a first timer to drop a grand on a marker right away, but by not cultivating growth in players your killing those big companies. Even your "40%" of gear owners arnt excited to buy anything decent. No some old cockers with a pump arm doesn't help the Paintball industry. Nor does that spyder tl that has had 17 owners. So your screwing the industry on marker sales. Those companies don't just make markers. Masks, hoppers, packs, tanks, clothes.... Ect.
First, we are not attracting only renters. We also have the lion's share of local gear owners as well, even though they have other decent quality fields which sell paint for considerably less. But they choose to come play at our field. And yes, many of them do use pumps and mechanical markers (although we see everything else as well). Why should I feel responsible for a part of an industry that has basically created and built itself around a segment of the market that isn't very sustainable.

Having said that though, I have no problem with other paintball fields offering the type of paintball that part of the industry wants to cater to. I have never said, nor would I even want it to happen, because it would actually be bad for my business, that every field should go the higher priced paint/lower volume route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
3. Stop quoting "how fun was it in the '80s when people only shot 500 balls! ". That's a weal argument at best. Main reason being : they didn't have a choice! Paint was expensive because it was such low volume because a) only 20 people in the whole country played Paintball (comical exaggeration) and b) they didn't have anything that could shoot fast. Games where much smaller player wise combined with a pump gun what would you expect?! Why don't you endorse shop goggles and have players chrono on tree bark? That should complete the retro -fun experience your seeking.
You're just being silly now. If you are going to debate something, at least try to use a little logic and reasoning. There is nothing wrong with making things safer and more dependable and easier to use. We rent out Tippmann 98's for instance. Why? Because they are much easier to use than pumps, so we do that so our customers have a better experience. We don't rent out hair trigger electros though. THAT would be an attempt at gouging customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
Like many others have said : tons of ways to be beginner friendly. In my days as a rec player I remember getting split into skill groups. At the age of 12 was I a little intimidated by Chris laysoya and rockie cagoni wrecking other jersey wearing "angel totting " players? Yes I was but damn did they give me something to aspire towards. Now I am on of those players. And I'm sure the thousands of dollars I have spent where appriciated by the industry. If you can't cover your over head any other way then to kill players on paint, you arnt a good business owner. My local field : located a mile from the Las vegas strip runs free admission wensdays. Me and a buddy often split a case of valken infinity ($45). Guess who normally shows up on wendsday? You guessed it! Divisional paintballers! And some renters too. We share the field with them and take extra care not to over shoot. Another day of the week he offers free rental packages and guess who shows up? Point proven
I publicly advocate any way a field chooses to create a less extreme environment for their customers, if that is the business they choose to be in. My way just happens to work very well and our average customers spends a similar amount at our field as most other fields (they just shoot less paintballs). Why would I change to a different technique that requires more policing (staff & wages resulting in rising prices) when I know they don't work any better and my customers are not going to feel like they got better value? Our way has worked for many, many years, so why try to reinvent the wheel? Fields that are now trying those other methods are doing so because they have to try to fix the problems that have been created. We don't have those problems, therefore, no need to change anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
End of rant : don't call your field a Paintball park. Call it "family cuddle paintball experience " or something. You are not portraying the only team oriented extreme sport like it should.
You don't think families have the right to play paintball? Paintball should only be a team oriented extreme sport? Why should there not be a less extreme paintball option available for those who want it? That's what we provide and guess what? The majority of people on this planet prefer it, including many people who want to play paintball regularly. I'm one of them, but there are millions of others just like me. Not everyone (not even the majority) wants to play in an extreme, intense environment.

Last edited by Horizon : 12-28-2011 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:52 PM #659
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Osg in NH is
$70 a case,
$15 air/entery
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:21 AM #660
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First off I want to state: I am posting from my phone. So please excuse poor sentence structure.

I actually went through and read alot of your (horizon) posts from 08 and 09. That's where you presented the "fun like the ole' days " paint useage and "40% are gear owners " . Which I explicitly point out is bad for Paintball as a whole. Your offering a bare minimum yet charging the maximum rate when you say "they spend $60 a day just like anywhere else..... They just don't get a third of the product ". I understand paying a little extra for the experience but common. 500 rounds spread out over a full day of play? Is your customer base THAT beta? Don't get me wrong I would love to own a business with a bare minimum over head and maximized profit margin.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:48 AM #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
First off I want to state: I am posting from my phone. So please excuse poor sentence structure.

I actually went through and read alot of your (horizon) posts from 08 and 09. That's where you presented the "fun like the ole' days " paint useage and "40% are gear owners " . Which I explicitly point out is bad for Paintball as a whole. Your offering a bare minimum yet charging the maximum rate when you say "they spend $60 a day just like anywhere else..... They just don't get a third of the product ". I understand paying a little extra for the experience but common. 500 rounds spread out over a full day of play? Is your customer base THAT beta? Don't get me wrong I would love to own a business with a bare minimum over head and maximized profit margin.
Why shouldn't we as an industry give people an opportunity to play paintball that is more similar in intensity to what it was like in the 80s and 90s, if that is what they want? And why would it be bad for paintball overall?

We have a competitor that runs a pretty decent field that compares to ours in quality. He had a pricing structure much like ours for close to 20 years. When he dropped his paint prices a few years ago and heavily advertised paintballs for close to half of what ours cost, I admit, we watched with considerable concern. But not much changed. His half priced paintballs didn't blow us out of the water and the number of people that come to our field has stayed fairly constant (only a very slight increase during the recession years). When he originally lowered his paint prices, I predicted that his regular playing gear owner business would take off. I was wrong. In the end, it worked out perfectly for us. The gear owners that DO want to shoot higher volumes, go to his field. Those players are happy that they have a place with lower priced paintballs and our customers are happy that the heavy shooters are elsewhere. It worked out well for everyone.

Paintball is advertised mostly by word of mouth. When people talk with each other about an activity they took part in, they talk about how much fun they had and what the overall cost was. That is all that matters to them. Those two things (fun and overall cost), taken into consideration together, equal the value. Extreme intensity and constant discomfort tend to decrease the fun for many. Therefore that can take away from the "value". That's why when people recommend a paintball facility in our area, our name still comes up more often because people feel they got better value, in spite of the fact that our paintball cost close to twice as much. As a matter of fact, it's probably because our paintballs cost close to twice as much that they ended up feeling they got better value. I realize that may be a hard concept for many to grasp, but I can assure you that giving people the option to play paintball at an intensity level closer to what it was like in the 80s and 90s is not hurting the industry overall. As a matter of fact, most of the paintball industry, including the paintball manufacturers, have for several years now been telling us that we need to lower the intensity level at fields because the high intensity level is keeping people from expanding our sport.
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:29 PM #662
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Wow there have been good points for both sides of the arguments, I really hope this thread continues on.

But in my opinion, high paint FPO fields have their place in paintball. They will be the places like PEV's and Skirmish because their fields are just so awesome that rentals really don't care if they drop 200 dollars a year to play there (only playing once a year). To them it becomes worth it because the fields are amazingly creative and the play is not to intensive because there is no one there ramping on them. HOWEVER...BYOP or cheap FPO fields do have their place as they bring speedball players and walkons together. The walkons look at most of the good speedball players as being really good and most would love to play like them. As long as the speedball players are not destroying these walkons then the walkons will ultimently spend money on more paint and hopefully money on mid to high end markers.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:43 PM #663
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Basically any field around me (Canada).

Looking at at least:
$20 Admission
$15 Rental
At least $100 for a case of paint.

Funny thing is one place charges $178/case on Saturday and Sunday with FPO, but Mon-Fri they are BYOP or a $48/case.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:56 PM #664
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Skirmishusa

Fee $33
One Case Of Paint $103!!!!!!!!!!!
Free Air All Day
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:07 PM #665
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Funny thing is one place charges $178/case on Saturday and Sunday with FPO, but Mon-Fri they are BYOP or a $48/case.
That probably works for them. Keeps the high shooters restricted to Mon-Fri basically and allows them to use their facility and cater to the low volume crowd (which is much bigger) on the weekends.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:16 PM #666
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^^^ That is actually very smart. If I had a field I'd do the same.

As for Skirmish IIRC, they have like 700 acres. That costs a lot of money to keep running.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:18 PM #667
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Most I pay is:

entry: free
air: $5 all day (for field regulars only)
paint: $35

I guess i'm just lucky.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:38 PM #668
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Where is that?
czpaintball.com
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:39 PM #669
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Most I pay is:

entry: free
air: $5 all day (for field regulars only)
paint: $35

I guess i'm just lucky.
i guess i"m luckier...
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:06 PM #670
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$100 cases
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:45 AM #671
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Skirmish, 100$ a case plus the 30$ admission. Pretty much ruins the sport for me. I refuse to pay almost 150$ for a single day of play where I actually have to worry about shooting paint too much. They offer no type of good deals such as buying a membership for reasonable price paint.

Its the closest field to my house, but I drive to LVPS since their prices are about half as much as the staff is a lot better.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:54 AM #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysteve
Skirmish, 100$ a case plus the 30$ admission. Pretty much ruins the sport for me. I refuse to pay almost 150$ for a single day of play where I actually have to worry about shooting paint too much. They offer no type of good deals such as buying a membership for reasonable price paint.

Its the closest field to my house, but I drive to LVPS since their prices are about half as much as the staff is a lot better.
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