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Old 06-20-2009, 01:26 PM #547
dirty jim flint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick1694 View Post
haha I didn't think so, and only with my uncles rental, it came with a bag.
i take it back, if you split that you'd only have like two pods each
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Old 06-20-2009, 08:56 PM #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty jim flint View Post
i take it back, if you split that you'd only have like two pods each
His quote says he spent 160$ on paint, which is two cases ($80/Case of Premiums) plus the bag with his uncle's rental.

I pay $15 Entry/Air
$65 a case for premiums.

Not sure if they are offering cheaper types of paint this summer
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:54 PM #549
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
That's not a totally bad way to do it but there are two problems with that. First, you are putting a physical restriction on people. Many aren't going to like that (but there would probably be enough that would be OK with it). Second, we would have to raise our prices for field fees, all day air, and lunch package. If we physically restricted people to 500 or so paintballs per day and lowered our prices to what are more typical in most parts of North America, we would have to make the money up somewhere else. Expenses don't get paid with smiles and good looks. Suppliers want cash. The money has got to come from somewhere. Higher volumes of participants (assuming that would happen), would help some, but your variable costs still go up with each customer and we are running at near or full capacity many times now, so we would need to build more infrastructure and possibly get more land. Again, that all costs money.

Our average recreational customer doesn't spend a much different amount for a day of paintball than at most fields in North America. The reason for that is simple. People spend what they feel is worth the value they are getting. We do have competitors, therefore we cannot just charge what we feel like and people will be forced to come anyway. Our customers have lots of choices of where to spend their recreational income, including other paintball fields. We have to provide good value for the money they spend.

It's not rocket science. But to imply that running a paintball field is a no brainer is not right either. If it was simple we would never have any fields closing and the owners would be driving nicer cars and living in bigger houses.
You're a ****ty business owner. I know fields around here that are FANTASTIC that charge 35-45 cases at starting price with a $15 field fee. One even has BYOP days w/ bannage on unsafe paint. OTP has been in business for almost 10 years, and the newer place, Thunder Valley, has been open for years and has a HUGE scenario field along with speedball/hyperball.

If I lived anywhere near your field, I'd rally a boycott of your ****ty prices. Maybe there are some people scare ****less of a few extra balls in the air, but I know of no one that I have played with that has the same ideas as you or fears that extra flying paint. There are other ways of limiting paint as opposed to charging someone a full week's part-time check for a case of paint, if they can even get that much out of it.

A big **** you from the paintball community who agrees that your prices **** many people over.
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:25 PM #550
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Originally Posted by Stevarius View Post
You're a ****ty business owner. I know fields around here that are FANTASTIC that charge 35-45 cases at starting price with a $15 field fee. One even has BYOP days w/ bannage on unsafe paint. OTP has been in business for almost 10 years, and the newer place, Thunder Valley, has been open for years and has a HUGE scenario field along with speedball/hyperball.

If I lived anywhere near your field, I'd rally a boycott of your ****ty prices. Maybe there are some people scare ****less of a few extra balls in the air, but I know of no one that I have played with that has the same ideas as you or fears that extra flying paint. There are other ways of limiting paint as opposed to charging someone a full week's part-time check for a case of paint, if they can even get that much out of it.

A big **** you from the paintball community who agrees that your prices **** many people over.
Thank you for your mature post.

I am glad that you have fields that are doing really well with low prices. I'm going to guess that they are situated in/near a fairly large population base. It's always good to hear other businesses, especially paintbal fields are doing well. Unfortunately not all are.

Our objective in our business is to attract the most people we can to our facility. The last two weekends we have either sold out or have been at near sellout conditions. Our competitors who are charging less for paint have not. As a matter of fact they have not had games every Saturday and Sunday as they have not had enough people who wanted to play with them. You may not like the way we run our busines, and that's perfectly fine. But please don't tell me I am a ****ty business owner, when I have hundreds of people willingly choosing our facilty over our competitors's facilities.

If you lived near here and you wanted to boycott our field and rally a boycott, you would be welcome to do so (you wouldn't be the first regular to try this). In the end though, people spend their entertainment dollar where they feel they are getting the best value for that dollar. If you were here and found better value at our competitors, then good for you. But I'm not going to change my business practices to chase you, as a customer, when the majority of paintball customers in the area seem to agree with the way we do things. That would be bad for my business and would attract less people to the sport, so it would be bad for the industry as well.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:46 PM #551
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:02 PM #552
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Entry: $15
Air: included in entry
Paint: $85 for WHITE BOX

closest feild to my house and I used to go there alot and sneak my own paint in until I got caught, then it was over......
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:05 PM #553
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
Thank you for your mature post.

I am glad that you have fields that are doing really well with low prices. I'm going to guess that they are situated in/near a fairly large population base. It's always good to hear other businesses, especially paintbal fields are doing well. Unfortunately not all are.

Our objective in our business is to attract the most people we can to our facility. The last two weekends we have either sold out or have been at near sellout conditions. Our competitors who are charging less for paint have not. As a matter of fact they have not had games every Saturday and Sunday as they have not had enough people who wanted to play with them. You may not like the way we run our busines, and that's perfectly fine. But please don't tell me I am a ****ty business owner, when I have hundreds of people willingly choosing our facilty over our competitors's facilities.

If you lived near here and you wanted to boycott our field and rally a boycott, you would be welcome to do so (you wouldn't be the first regular to try this). In the end though, people spend their entertainment dollar where they feel they are getting the best value for that dollar. If you were here and found better value at our competitors, then good for you. But I'm not going to change my business practices to chase you, as a customer, when the majority of paintball customers in the area seem to agree with the way we do things. That would be bad for my business and would attract less people to the sport, so it would be bad for the industry as well.
You want a mature post? Here it goes....

Your customers paying for the high price of paint creates a demand for paintball at a highly inflated price. By selling paint at such a high price and actually having people buy the paint at that price can affect the prices of other fields in the area or peak interest in owners who notice this. As paintball players, we control the industry and fields with the money in our wallets and by them agreeing to dispose of THAT MUCH money for bag of point unfortunately CAN negatively impact the sport. Imagine if Smart Parts started selling the Ion XE for $400. Obviously someone out there would buy it, creating an incentive for SP to sell it at that inflated price. I sure as hell don't want the industry to steer in that direction so they wouldn't get a penny from my pocket. Prices are a rather greedy way to implement a solution to your situation. If you want less balls in the air, you can limit the pod amounts, technology allowed(no ramping), etc etc.

Now, on to gameplay. I think by having inflated paint prices, you also take the learning aspect of paintball from your players. I damn well wouldn't waste a single ball at your field trying to keep a player pinned down. What is the player on the receiving end going to learn from the game if he can get up to a bunker a lot more easily? He arguably(depends on the paint affordable) won't have much practice snap shooting or pinning his opponent down so he can move to another bunker. I'd also like to mention that I hardly get bonus balled even when paint prices are extremely cheap. It only happens when I happen to walk through a lane which isn't exactly bonus balling, but it's my stupidity.

Honestly, I think you could attract more people if you were cheaper as that is more rational. And regarding your profits, I hope your field(s) are nothing less than kick-***.

If I win the lottery, expect me to ravage that field with 10 cases of paint in one session.


Are high paint prices what we really want in the future of paintball?
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:46 PM #554
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Originally Posted by Stevarius View Post
You want a mature post? Here it goes....

Your customers paying for the high price of paint creates a demand for paintball at a highly inflated price. By selling paint at such a high price and actually having people buy the paint at that price can affect the prices of other fields in the area or peak interest in owners who notice this. As paintball players, we control the industry and fields with the money in our wallets and by them agreeing to dispose of THAT MUCH money for bag of point unfortunately CAN negatively impact the sport. Imagine if Smart Parts started selling the Ion XE for $400. Obviously someone out there would buy it, creating an incentive for SP to sell it at that inflated price. I sure as hell don't want the industry to steer in that direction so they wouldn't get a penny from my pocket. Prices are a rather greedy way to implement a solution to your situation. If you want less balls in the air, you can limit the pod amounts, technology allowed(no ramping), etc etc.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree as I feel exactly the opposite. Cheap paint prices are affecting the industry in a negative way. Overlay some charts with both the price of paintballs at a paintball field and paintball attendance growth rate. You will see that once paintballs dropped below $100/case, the growth rate slowed. The further the price dropped, the more the growth rate slowed until eventually we got a negative growth rate (or decrease rate). This was happening during a time when the population of the USA was well employed and had more excess income than ever before. Most people think of paintballs as a regular commodity. In some ways they are. Lower the price and you will sell more. Raise the price and you will sell less. This is just like any other commodity. But paintballs also do another very important thing. They affect the way the game is played. Many paintballs in the air is a much different game (environment) than much fewer paintballs in the air. Anyone that doesn't see that has their head in the sand or is ignorant by choice. Therefore, the price of paintballs (the commodity) affects the game. When people choose to play paintball (or choose not to), they are doing just that, choosing to play the "game". Less people want to play a high intensity (high paintball volume) game than would choose to play a low intensity (low paintball volume) game. Those people aren't on this forum (or any other paintball forum) because they don't play anymore in today's high volume environment, so they aren't here to speak up. but even if they were, they would agree with you, they would rather spend less money to play, rather than more money.

That brings me to my next point; lowering the volume of shooting by some other means. What would be the point of doing whatever it is that you could think of to lower the volume shot, if in the end the players would still be shooting the low amount of paintballs? If a fieldowner sold low volumes of paintballs for low dollar value (cheap), he would have to make up the lost income elsewhere. Therefore he would have to raise other prices. In the end, the player would have to pay the same amount for playing paintball with the same amount of paintballs, so there would be no difference for the player, other than having had some measure forced on him to physically limit his shooting abilities, which would be frustrating. This limiting measure would have to be very severe as even a first time renter can easily still shoot a case of paintballs with a stock M98 and a shake and bake hopper in a day if he wants to. Lower the price of paintballs enough, and that is exactly what happens. I want my customers to shoot somewhere between 500 and 700 paintballs in a 7 hour (with breaks) session, not a case or anywhere near a case.

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Now, on to gameplay. I think by having inflated paint prices, you also take the learning aspect of paintball from your players. I damn well wouldn't waste a single ball at your field trying to keep a player pinned down. What is the player on the receiving end going to learn from the game if he can get up to a bunker a lot more easily? He arguably(depends on the paint affordable) won't have much practice snap shooting or pinning his opponent down so he can move to another bunker. I'd also like to mention that I hardly get bonus balled even when paint prices are extremely cheap. It only happens when I happen to walk through a lane which isn't exactly bonus balling, but it's my stupidity.
Yes, the game play is totally different. That's the whole point. Low volume paintball is totally different from high volume paintball. A higher percentage of the general population prefers the game style low volume paintball provides. Not everyone, and I understand a high percentage of the people currently on PBNation, or virtually any other paintball forum, do not. As I am writing this, I know that of the approx. 10,000 customers I will have this year, not more than about a dozen of them will ever see this post, if even that many. But does that mean those 10,000 people aren't important to the paintball industry. I know they are important to me.

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Honestly, I think you could attract more people if you were cheaper as that is more rational. And regarding your profits, I hope your field(s) are nothing less than kick-***.
We've tried lowering our prices and we do not get more players, we get less players. The casual players (once or twice a year players) stop coming and the regulars (gear owners) at first come more because of the cheaper prices, but after a few months that levels off. That's because they start shooting more of the "cheap" paintballs so the day is not really any cheaper for them than before, so they cannot afford to come more often, they just shoot more when they do come.

Our fields are decent, but there are much better fields in the world. we are in a relatively small market. If I was in New York State, i'm sure I would attract far more people and could therefore have much, much nicer fields. What we provide is good service and a popular environment for people to play the game of paintball.

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If I win the lottery, expect me to ravage that field with 10 cases of paint in one session.
Now that doesn't showcase your maturity at all, does it? And that demonstrates the exact reason why the system works so well (and used to work everywhere in the paintbal world beore paintball prices dropped so much), it keeps the high shooting players away and lets those that enjoy the low volume paintball atmosphere play in peace.

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Are high paint prices what we really want in the future of paintball?
That depends on what you want the future of paintball to be. Personally I think there is a place for both. Low price (high volume) has it's followers and its place and low volume (higher price paintballs) also has its followers. Luckily we live in a free society and in the end its up to each consumer to decide what he/she wants. I lucked out figuring out which is more popular in our area and headed in that direction and I leave others to cater to the other end of the player spectrum.
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:29 AM #555
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That depends on what you want the future of paintball to be. Personally I think there is a place for both. Low price (high volume) has it's followers and its place and low volume (higher price paintballs) also has its followers. Luckily we live in a free society and in the end its up to each consumer to decide what he/she wants. I lucked out figuring out which is more popular in our area and headed in that direction and I leave others to cater to the other end of the player spectrum.
The future of paintball that I want is for anyone to be able to afford it and not be severely limited by prices. Think of how the Smart Parts Ion, no matter how many upgrades it needs, affected the market by forcing competitors to also create a cheap electric gun so that new players can get some decent firepower.

Although it is a free market, only time will tell if your business tactics succeed or don't. So far, they are. That's agreeable. But in years to come, who knows. Let's see where the industry goes.

But as for the location of our field. We have 2 fields in relatively close proximity and the towns near it aren't all that big, but they make do pretty well.
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:38 AM #556
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Back to prices ladies....

My local field is pretty awesome
15 Admission + all day air
35 case of WPN Killer Bees which aren't all that bad, or BYOP but 10$ surcharge.
Good field, Cool refs, fast paced.
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:18 AM #557
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Skirmish USA, 100$ a case for stinger, thats why whenever i go there i use a shake and shoot on my g3
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Old 06-30-2009, 10:39 AM #558
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Originally Posted by Stevarius View Post
The future of paintball that I want is for anyone to be able to afford it and not be severely limited by prices. Think of how the Smart Parts Ion, no matter how many upgrades it needs, affected the market by forcing competitors to also create a cheap electric gun so that new players can get some decent firepower.
It's a nice thought to think that paintball will be affordable to all, but it's not reality. Paintball can be played inexpensively, if people choose to do so. Absolutely. Most just choose not to do so, unfortunately. Therefore those that choose to play on a tight budget are at a disadvantage unless they are quite experienced (like myself that chooses to play with a pump and about 250 paintballs although I don't have to). But a new player trying to play very inexpensively will be up against the other players who are spending more and shooting lots of paint.

The Ion can also be blamed (or graced, depending on how you view it) with the cause of falling paintball prices as it increased the fire power for many players who would normally not have had the ability to purchase a marker that could shoot relatively fast ROF. So depending on how you look at it, it was a blessing or a curse. I think we are on different sides of the tracks on that one as well.

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Skirmish USA, 100$ a case for stinger, thats why whenever i go there i use a shake and shoot on my g3
See, the strategy works everywhere. If Skirmish would lower their paint prices to be similar to other paintball fields in the area, they would get more gear owners, shooting more paint each on average, and they would get far, far fewer new players and renters, so it depends on who you are and what you want. I'm sure the owner wants lots of players at his field. I'm sure the renters appreciate the fact that players are shooting less paint in general (even though they may not consciously be thinking about it or even aware of the fact that the prices are keeping that in control). I'm also sure that most regular players, like those on PBN, would prefer lower paintball prices (at least those that like the high volume atmosphere).
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Old 07-07-2009, 12:46 AM #559
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Wow, who would have thought someone would have come up with this idea?

Double paint prices? This guy must be nuts. (Check out page 18)

http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/...a#/b9fade6a/18
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Old 07-07-2009, 04:28 AM #560
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I like the way you think Horizon.
Anyways Long Reach Paintball,NB
Free admission
$80 Procaps
$1 Hotdogs
$2 Hamburgers
This is in CANADIAN prices people.
And yes we do have ALOT of people each weekend not complaining about the price being too high, It also allows the family run field to put more then 80% of the profit back into the field.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:33 AM #561
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post

See, the strategy works everywhere. If Skirmish would lower their paint prices to be similar to other paintball fields in the area, they would get more gear owners, shooting more paint each on average, and they would get far, far fewer new players and renters, so it depends on who you are and what you want. I'm sure the owner wants lots of players at his field. I'm sure the renters appreciate the fact that players are shooting less paint in general (even though they may not consciously be thinking about it or even aware of the fact that the prices are keeping that in control). I'm also sure that most regular players, like those on PBN, would prefer lower paintball prices (at least those that like the high volume atmosphere).

Lets not bring Skirmish into the conversation as a comparison to your spot.

Skirmish has 50 fields over 700 acres? How many does yours have?
Skirmish has SERIOUS structured scenario fields. How much effort/work was put into your fields?
Skirmish has some of the best techs you will ever find at ANY field. How good are all of your techs?
Skirmish rents Tippmann 98s, A-5s AND Eteks. What markers are available to rent at your place?
Skirmish has a very good pro-shop that sells just about anything and everything you would ever need for a wodsball game. Is your pro-shop stocked that well?

Unless you can make the same claims for all of these you really shouldn't be comparing yourself to Skirmish. Because even with they high prices of paint there we can clearly see where our money is going.
**And for your further info people still shoot tons of paint at Skirmish despite the heavy price tag.
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:05 AM #562
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That is nothing, 120$ for a case of XO spectrum (rec grade) and 15$ addmission and buy your own lunch and on top of that,its the closest filed near me(the rest are at least 30 minutes away)!
THE PLACE IS CALLED BUNKERSHIDEAWAY AND IS IN CANADA.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:48 AM #563
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ct is pretty cheap but where i play is a little pricier
25 for entry and air, 50 for a case f heat

other places have 15 entry and air
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:34 PM #564
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Wow...

In Australia (Action Paintball) we pay $200 for entry + air + rental (tippman 98) + 2000 balls. It's $280 for 2000 extra paintballs.

If only I could buy paint at $70 a case.
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:13 AM #565
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Wow...

In Australia (Action Paintball) we pay $200 for entry + air + rental (tippman 98) + 2000 balls. It's $280 for 2000 extra paintballs.

If only I could buy paint at $70 a case.
They don't make you buy 2,000 paintballs every time do they?
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:27 AM #566
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Paintball Paradise in Winnipeg charges
$35cad for rental 98c incl. air and 100rds
$65 500rds
$170 case

But then they're the only field that owns their own property IN the city, so they can really charge whatever they want. All other fields that are much cheaper and resonable priced are ~15-45min outside the city.
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Old 07-09-2009, 01:02 AM #567
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If Skirmish would lower their paint prices to be similar to other paintball fields in the area, they would get more gear owners, shooting more paint each on average, and they would get far, far fewer new players and renters, so it depends on who you are and what you want. I'm sure the owner wants lots of players at his field. I'm sure the renters appreciate the fact that players are shooting less paint in general (even though they may not consciously be thinking about it or even aware of the fact that the prices are keeping that in control). I'm also sure that most regular players, like those on PBN, would prefer lower paintball prices (at least those that like the high volume atmosphere)
In all honesty.. the price hasnt effected anything. Skirmish has been where its been for 26 years and running , even as a player at skirmish (been playing there past 16 years before becoming a ref in april) the customer service combined with the staff has kept me coming back.

Ive played few other places and highly dount Ill play anywhere else again, not only have i noticed most places are not that great with the customer base but they have crazy prices for just about everything. some local fields charge 25+ just to walk onto the fields,if you need rental equipment its another 30 just for the basic tippman 98 (if youre lucky) then you gotta pay for paint which prices start at 25+ for a bag of 500, then on top of that price ya have air fills which are roughly 1.00 for every 1000 for hpa. a 4500 hpa tank figure 4.50 everytime you fill it.. you fill it a few times a day (the way some people shoot you fill every 3 or 4 games) 5 for belt pack,10 for armour,8 for camo

so to do the math lets see..

25+30+25+20 (figure 4-5 air fills) +5+8+10 = thats 123 without 6% pa sales tax.. not to mention your paying more if you want more then 500 rounds of paint.

skirmish's paint prices are a bit steep Ive thought that as a player for a while but no matter how many air fills you need through out the day no matter what size tank its free.. everything there is either cheap or free.. the gun techs work on your gun for free (only charge for the parts if your gun needs it)

lets do the math on skirmish's prices.

with tax addmission price is about 35 (which includes multiple airfills of either co2 or hp anysize any amount of times..free) tippman 98 goggles

paint 2000 rounds (full box) 105 that includes tax,gets cheaper the more you buy.

$2 belt pack rental, $6 camo rental and i forget the body armour rental price,I think its ten but could be wrong.package price for belt,camo,armour $13.


Looking at your prices for paint Id say we got ya beat by 60 dollers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul06 View Post
Lets not bring Skirmish into the conversation as a comparison to your spot.

Skirmish has 50 fields over 700 acres? How many does yours have?
Skirmish has SERIOUS structured scenario fields. How much effort/work was put into your fields?
Skirmish has some of the best techs you will ever find at ANY field. How good are all of your techs?
Skirmish rents Tippmann 98s, A-5s AND Eteks. What markers are available to rent at your place?
Skirmish has a very good pro-shop that sells just about anything and everything you would ever need for a wodsball game. Is your pro-shop stocked that well?

Unless you can make the same claims for all of these you really shouldn't be comparing yourself to Skirmish. Because even with they high prices of paint there we can clearly see where our money is going.
**And for your further info people still shoot tons of paint at Skirmish despite the heavy price tag.

skirmish has 52 fields on 700+ acres

the kids right.. the pro shop has just about everything ya can think of. from extra socks to boots,player gloves,wool gloves beenies,extra parts bdus goggle system extra lenses,repair kits, honestly theres too much in there for me to think about it all..but they have it in there.

we have structured fields such as hood,two different sized castles,tippman city to name a few.

we have plain wooded fields with different degrees of over growth,from normal walk through lightly wooded areas to crawling under heavy growth, some include streams,swamps,

we have fields with a combo of woods and structured,we have some crazy new ones like metalands (if ya havent been there in a bit check the site) and tunnles.


tippman 98s are included with field fee.
we do rental upgrades with tippman x-7s and e tecs
Im not saying we are the best but we take everything our players say into account and try our hardest to become what we can.


I can say from experiance as a player for 16+ years skirmish has been the place to go for me.
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