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Old 12-11-2008, 05:50 AM #22
JESTERTLS
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROUNDHOG View Post
I have no problem with someone wearing some ACU's and playing paintball..but when you go out there and actually have a Unit patch that isn't paintball related, and rank when your not even a service member it shows disrespect.

I was gonna disagree with your earlier post, but this one cleared it up a bit. I think that is the general concensus. We have lots of military on the team I am with. They have no issue with rank insignia used as part of the persons uniform during a game. But like you said, if someone goes out and is wearing a set of Marine Issue digi's and wearing real unit patches with SgtMjr stripes, he's gonna get some attention. Now we've done games where we had a SgtMjr's role. These guys wore the stripes. But they werent pretending to be a SgtMjr.

And that is the whole thing. Its okay to wear rank on the field, but it isnt alright to "pose" as real military or a rank in the real military you are not (or for a group in the military you are not, which we see more of then rank). That is just wrong all the way around. i see way more military personnel having issue with the unit patches then anythign else.
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:37 AM #23
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Its not a matter of unit patch that is the problem its a problem if they wear it as a combat unit patch meaning they are wearing it on thier right shoulder
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:56 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JESTERTLS View Post
I was gonna disagree with your earlier post, but this one cleared it up a bit. I think that is the general concensus. We have lots of military on the team I am with. They have no issue with rank insignia used as part of the persons uniform during a game. But like you said, if someone goes out and is wearing a set of Marine Issue digi's and wearing real unit patches with SgtMjr stripes, he's gonna get some attention. Now we've done games where we had a SgtMjr's role. These guys wore the stripes. But they werent pretending to be a SgtMjr.

And that is the whole thing. Its okay to wear rank on the field, but it isnt alright to "pose" as real military or a rank in the real military you are not (or for a group in the military you are not, which we see more of then rank). That is just wrong all the way around. i see way more military personnel having issue with the unit patches then anythign else.
My team is almost all military. In fact im one of the few out of about 18 guys that's a civilian. (currently in NJROTC though, wont be a civi for much longer.)
Yeah, i see alot of people with ranger tabs and ****, airborne, and i believe i saw someone wearing an "Old Ironsides" patch too.. If its a little kid wearing dads old BDU's i could care less. But Teenagers and adults should know better. especially if its some 40 year old man. It's pretty pathetic if you ask me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berzerker709th View Post
Its not a matter of unit patch that is the problem its a problem if they wear it as a combat unit patch meaning they are wearing it on thier right shoulder
Actually, some units wear unit patches on both shoulders.

(you can see in the photo i posted on the first page.)
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Last edited by GROUNDHOG : 12-11-2008 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 12-15-2008, 10:41 PM #25
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the unit patch on your left sleeve is the unit you are currently with the one on the right is the unit or command you was in combat with
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:55 PM #26
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i've never seen a true military ranking system before.of course there the general then executive officer(s) and the various team leaders.i think it just that in some scenarios it would be too meticulus to detail every one into a rank.i think ultimately its up to the team leader and other team members todecide themselves if they are going to have ranks in their team.
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Old 12-23-2008, 02:21 AM #27
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Wolfheart, your pretty much correct. Most games it is over kill or not needed for ranks other then General, XO, and then the individual team leaders. Its the larger games or the more structured MilSim games where they're used or even really needed.
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:04 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GROUNDHOG View Post
My team is almost all military. In fact im one of the few out of about 18 guys that's a civilian. (currently in NJROTC though, wont be a civi for much longer.)
Yeah, i see alot of people with ranger tabs and ****, airborne, and i believe i saw someone wearing an "Old Ironsides" patch too.. If its a little kid wearing dads old BDU's i could care less. But Teenagers and adults should know better. especially if its some 40 year old man. It's pretty pathetic if you ask me.


Actually, some units wear unit patches on both shoulders.

(you can see in the photo i posted on the first page.)
You're being way over-bearing and absolutely ridiculous. It is assumed that our soldiers are making or are going to make a great sacrifice for our country and deserve to be honored for that service. I completely agree with that sentiment! But you are forgetting one very important thing... They volunteered for the military knowing full well that they may be disrespected, demonstrated against, loathed by some, and even convicted of crimes for simply following the orders that they were given by their superior officers. That doesn't change the fact that they are defending our rights to wear what WE WANT, say what WE WANT, and do what WE WANT. There are no strings attached to freedom, and I resent you trying to limit the freedom of paintball scenario players under the FALSE pretense of disrespect.

Imitating a combat unit be it historical or modern, active duty or reserve is in NO WAY disrespectful. In fact it is paying one of the highest honors a person can give to another person or group. They hold that group in such high regards that they want to seem like they are a part of it. That being said, if the person is actually claiming to be part for the aforementioned imitated group and is taking credit for their actions then that IS disrespectful. Fortunately for us this just happens to be a free country so that person should be allowed to make his fake claims, it is up to the (hopefully) more well informed people around him to refute his claims to grandeur and honor.

You have stated "if you didn't earn it don't wear it" in a couple of posts. Well, did you earn the shirt you're wearing? How about the underwear? You didn't make them, I'm pretty sure of that... So how can you say you earned the right to wear them? Surely not with those little green pieces of paper that you gave whoever you got the clothes from. A patch is nothing more that a piece of clothing. A rank is nothing more than a designation showing that that person is in charge of you. There is nothing wrong or disrespectful with implementing this type of system into paintball. The system works and works well. I know you want to seem all exclusive when you actually join the military, but if you wanted it that way then move somewhere like Russia where you can decide what people say, wear, and think.

Honestly I think the real problem here is that you're insecure about the way you feel about the military and this country. You obviously have a need to be different judging by the condescending way you referred to us "civis." Well let me clue you, the military isn't a place to strive to be different, they want you all the same. Scenario paintball is meant to imitate the situations and feel that occur on a battle field; that includes rankings for very serious players. It is a learning experience. If anything, it increases knowledge and respect for the military. All in all, this is America, get over it. It’s a free country and once laws or rules are put into place to regulate the use of a universal system of leadership we start sacrificing our freedoms. At that point the military might as well not exist because there won’t be any freedoms left to protect.



Oh, and by the way that picture you posted wasn't paintball. Those are actually soldiers, that might be why they look like soldiers... Go figure...

Last edited by SkaKid4lyfe : 07-08-2009 at 11:53 PM. Reason: Noticed a major mess up at the beginning... I'm cool like that...
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:23 PM #29
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I think the best part, of our future defender of freedom, is how they view those who perform as enemies of the USA. ION - There are those who, I swear, it looks like they got their costume from Grandads uniform closet. I have attended ION where 1500 Germans have been cheering (when they won) and waving the Swastika flag like it's a push on Poland... is that disrespectful? I see it as not. It's people taking on the ROLE that they are PLAYING.

What about the 'search of Osama' PB game? Was that disrespectful to troop forces in Afghanistan? NO.. it's a game.

As with, everyones opinion, actually trying to pass yourself off as a member of the military (or lying that you are someone else) is reprehensable... but if you are ROLE PLAYING and throw yourself into that ROLE... you don't actually believe you are the XO of an army. You don't actually believe you have any real command... but everyone is expected to fall in line with the ROLE PLAYING aspect of the GAME.

You are 18 - you are not wise - you don't have the inside word on what you are talking about - you have no authority on 'attempting' to dictate what you and your friends feel is 'disrespectful'. I respect your decision to enter the military... been there, done that, (British Territiorials). But dictating what can and cannot be worn, or ranked, in a game and calling is disrespect is plain ridiculous..... I guess those who 're-enact' past wars are disrespectful because, during the performance, they are given rank too.

Bottom line, calm down, it's a game.
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Old 07-08-2009, 11:51 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Fodder NJ View Post
I think the best part, of our future defender of freedom, is how they view those who perform as enemies of the USA. ION - There are those who, I swear, it looks like they got their costume from Grandads uniform closet. I have attended ION where 1500 Germans have been cheering (when they won) and waving the Swastika flag like it's a push on Poland... is that disrespectful? I see it as not. It's people taking on the ROLE that they are PLAYING.

What about the 'search of Osama' PB game? Was that disrespectful to troop forces in Afghanistan? NO.. it's a game.

As with, everyones opinion, actually trying to pass yourself off as a member of the military (or lying that you are someone else) is reprehensable... but if you are ROLE PLAYING and throw yourself into that ROLE... you don't actually believe you are the XO of an army. You don't actually believe you have any real command... but everyone is expected to fall in line with the ROLE PLAYING aspect of the GAME.

You are 18 - you are not wise - you don't have the inside word on what you are talking about - you have no authority on 'attempting' to dictate what you and your friends feel is 'disrespectful'. I respect your decision to enter the military... been there, done that, (British Territiorials). But dictating what can and cannot be worn, or ranked, in a game and calling is disrespect is plain ridiculous..... I guess those who 're-enact' past wars are disrespectful because, during the performance, they are given rank too.

Bottom line, calm down, it's a game.
Amen to that Cannon Fodder NJ. Thank you for agreeing with me.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:34 AM #31
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Generals, XOs, and field commanders, are about all you see. Most are not labeled with uniforms or rank. Just armbands and such for the General and XO identifying them has a high value target for the other team.

Many groups assign squad leaders and a command structure within a team/squad in case the squad leader gets killed. Mostly to direct the unit and to CARRY the mission card. Very important to keep track of the mission card. If some dufus gets killed and takes the mission card with him, your mission is busted. All he can do is call himself out and drop the card which is a prop. It is the responsibility of the squad to make sure SOMEBODY takes responsibility to pick up the mission card. So it is a good idea to assign experienced scenario players to the first three slots in the squad's chain of command and have the rest just count of their number and tell them to make sure that mission card gets picked up.

What I would like to see is a Ranking System and the insigna of that rank sewn on their camo or whatever they were. Basically you earn rank by playing scenario games. More experience, more rank. Like the post says, you EARN your rank by playing. A points system based on number of games played and additional points for being a designated role player such as spy, demo, medic, helo pilot, etc. Nothing fancy or formal other than a guy that says he is a major should have a chain with about 25 scenario game ID cards to show if anyone asks.

I think that would add to the game a lot. You have a LOT of inexperienced players that need to be show what to do on the fly. A guy with a few stripes barking orders would help.

Generally, the experienced players are the ones barking orders like a drill sargent. Newbies, Just DO what they tell you to do or die trying.....
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:41 PM #32
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never heard of it
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:56 PM #33
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I can't agree more, wearing rank in an event is one thing,
wearing it elsewhere is something else, but lets get back
onto the original subject.

At D-Day one of our units has set the bar for the rest.
They've gone so far as to establish minimum qualifications
and experience standards for each of their ranks/grades.
They have also worked hard to build an experienced officer
and NCO corps and the results have been dramatic. They've
had a 100% return rate in their leadership cadre for three
years running. The quality of leadership that results from
this kind of retention is considerable.

Beyond this, this same unit also maintains service records on
their members dating back to 2005, including their attendance
at unit sanctioned events besides D-Day, any special courses
or staff roles they've had, their ranks, decorations, etc, as
well as all their contact information, medical info, emergency
contact numbers, etc, etc. They compliment all this by also
running a comprehensive training course that covers six days
of classes. The material covered is then revised each year to
take into account changes in the field, points awards, etc.

Keep in mind, these players generally only get to work out
with one another one week a year, not weekly like most teams,
so when I hear folks saying thee sorts of things can't be done,
I ask myself why not.

Sincerely,
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Old 10-27-2009, 03:00 PM #34
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ya
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:28 PM #35
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I never follow ranks in a game. I know who my company commanders are, who my leaders are, etc...There have been times at Skirmish I had a Private rank card, but was out leading teams and squads in firefights. Ranks are more for teams and structure. As for disrespect, I think wearing your rank at and during the game is fine. I see it as you honor the people who fight for the freedom we have. What better way to do this than use their methods, their structure, etc...Once the game is over or asked if you are in the military, you should be honest and say yes or no, whichever to be true. There is a fine line in honoring the Armed Forces and then Impersonating them for benefits,glory,attention,etc.
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Old 11-12-2009, 02:05 PM #36
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The experienced players know how to play. Less critical to have uniformed command structures.

But HALF or MORE of the players at a given game have played one or two scenario games and have no CLUE what is going on. How to play, what to do, how to be part of the team, how to be a role player. Even what the RULES are.....

A ranking system and some self appointed officers that HAVE experience and want to function as field officers would be a big help to the Newbies...
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:30 AM #37
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That's true Boom, but I have been with first time walk ons that have had a Captain card and thought they knew everything
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:03 PM #38
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long story short military people have no problem if you anyone dresses in uniform to play paintball. The only time it is a issue if you try to impersonate a active duty military person in public. And now that i think about it. If you are playing a scenario based on real military units. Why dont you look somebody up. Ask the persons running the scenario and say i want to be this guy because look at his acomplishments. That way you are paying homage to real life heros who may have passed on.

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Old 02-19-2010, 02:18 PM #39
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My Unit uses a rank structure.this way we have clear leadership. We play half a dozen scenarios a year .people get promoted based on their dedication and leadership potential.Game to game and year to year. having a clear chain of command in a group uf up to 100 men is a good thing if you want to get things done. when i want the Unit to take an objective i dont hant to debate it for half an hour.It adds to the realism of the event.

they are all a great bunch of guys from variious areas and teams.

Our biggest game is Invasion Of Normandy @ skirmish pa every year.

Our unti the 1.SS Panzer korps is comprised of 3 divisions

1.SS Panzer division Leibstandarte
12.SS Panzer division
Panzer Lehr division

All 3 of these units are historically correct for the normandy battles in june 1944. the 12.SS fought on the first day as they where positioned near Caen.

we have full time tank support and have more than proven ourselves on the field. Anyone interested in playign with us check out our forums. Historically correct uniforms are encouraged but not mandatory (exept for the 1st Zug 1.SS Panzer division We requre uniforms)

the link is in our sig
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:19 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urza1985 View Post
long story short military people have no problem if you anyone dresses in uniform to play paintball. The only time it is a issue if you try to impersonate a active duty military person in public. And now that i think about it. If you are playing a scenario based on real military units. Why dont you look somebody up. Ask the persons running the scenario and say i want to be this guy because look at his acomplishments. That way you are paying homage to real life heros who may have passed on.
good post!
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:21 PM #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Master View Post
Generals, XOs, and field commanders, are about all you see. Most are not labeled with uniforms or rank. Just armbands and such for the General and XO identifying them has a high value target for the other team.

Many groups assign squad leaders and a command structure within a team/squad in case the squad leader gets killed. Mostly to direct the unit and to CARRY the mission card. Very important to keep track of the mission card. If some dufus gets killed and takes the mission card with him, your mission is busted. All he can do is call himself out and drop the card which is a prop. It is the responsibility of the squad to make sure SOMEBODY takes responsibility to pick up the mission card. So it is a good idea to assign experienced scenario players to the first three slots in the squad's chain of command and have the rest just count of their number and tell them to make sure that mission card gets picked up.

What I would like to see is a Ranking System and the insigna of that rank sewn on their camo or whatever they were. Basically you earn rank by playing scenario games. More experience, more rank. Like the post says, you EARN your rank by playing. A points system based on number of games played and additional points for being a designated role player such as spy, demo, medic, helo pilot, etc. Nothing fancy or formal other than a guy that says he is a major should have a chain with about 25 scenario game ID cards to show if anyone asks.

I think that would add to the game a lot. You have a LOT of inexperienced players that need to be show what to do on the fly. A guy with a few stripes barking orders would help.

Generally, the experienced players are the ones barking orders like a drill sargent. Newbies, Just DO what they tell you to do or die trying.....
they have that if you playbettlefield 2 lol. i dont see it working in real life cause every paintball field would have to agree.
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:20 PM #42
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I totally agree with Blackangel the team I play for uses rank as a way of showing what you have done and earned you have to prove yourself on the field and off.

and to the fact that you think it is disrespectful to current military I have asked quite a few current service men and women and a few older vets of past wars what they think about people using ranks and military patches in games and on teams for paintball events only and they said as long as you don't try to do it in public it don't matter but once you do it in public it is disrespectful


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