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Old 07-21-2008, 11:28 PM #43
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There is a live player count in the bug... although I've been having a bit of a contest with the editor for a couple years now to get it switched to some sort of graphical interface, one dot or bar per player still alive.

We did the field walk last year - not sure what happened there this year. Didn't notice it myself, but agree it would be helpful.

We also didn't get to do some tricks with bunker colors that I think would have really helped with keeping track of where people were; should have that worked out for next year.

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Old 07-21-2008, 11:33 PM #44
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it was cool, the one thing i think would of been better if it would of been on just a little bit more often cause i only got to watch the finals...
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:35 PM #45
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It was great game, congrats ISU.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:37 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
There is a live player count in the bug... although I've been having a bit of a contest with the editor for a couple years now to get it switched to some sort of graphical interface, one dot or bar per player still alive.

We did the field walk last year - not sure what happened there this year. Didn't notice it myself, but agree it would be helpful.

We also didn't get to do some tricks with bunker colors that I think would have really helped with keeping track of where people were; should have that worked out for next year.

- Chris
The red/blue zone thing I think was important for people not familiar with paintball.

I noticed the player and point count up top. Paintball is really fast paced so its hard to keep track at times. I know in a few games they're drop from 4 to 2 in seconds and bam, game over. I saw the announcers circle players a few times, I think using the light pens (i believe that's what they're called) more to point out lanes and player positions on the fly could be useful. On the flip side overuse of it could make it to difficult for people to watch. The quick talk through on the basics of paintball that Matty and Bea gave seemed alright, I didn't pay much attention to it honestly as I knew what was going on.

I would like to say I really enjoyed the broadcast and found it entertaining. Working out a way to make paintball presentable in a quick fashion (not the editing intense way the NPPL was shown) is very difficult.
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Old 07-22-2008, 12:54 AM #47
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In response to the Derder comment:

the derder guys spend HOURS on the field capturing probably 100 or more games in a national event to get 30-45 min. worth of entertaining footage. Granted, they dont show the actual game, they just show a "highlight reel" as it were.

I still say that i was extremely impressed by the showing, really shows that the "xball format" has a lot of potential to be exciting. Matty and Bea always do a good job at explaining the game on a basic, but interesting level which is nice as well.

The camera guys are getting there too, i saw a few really good shots where you could see the paint all over the place, i honestly think it would be awesome to have a skycam (unrealistic at the moment), but something that you could potentially do would be to have a camera on a track behind one of the dead boxes so they could parallel a player breaking out to the corner always have loved that shot.


edit: after watching a few videos today and thinking more about the cast, one thing that i did notice was the lack of paint that you could see. yeah i know earlrier in the post i said that there were some great shots where you could see it, but those were few and far between. I honestly believe that there is NO reason for us to not be able to see the paint, especially with the HD that is television vs. online video. IMO- you make the paint more visible, you make the actual gunfights more interesting, and then you can have a focal point for a small ammount of time. Instead of focusing on the whole field the entire time you can focus on one player, i know it would have been AWESOME to see the dorito player for UCI, or the snake player for ISU on a more personal level than just watching them go down the field and then watching the other team walk off, you dont get the drama of the individual.

Also, like i said earlier, my friend stated that it was hard to watch because you couldnt see where the people were getting shot, and honestly, im going to blame that on the color of the paint because i know good and well there is some really bright neon stuff that could be used. It was just hard to see the hits.

Chris, id like for you to take a look at this video, it may not mean anything, but i dont understand why a professional company cant mimic some of these shots, also, think about the color of the paint they are using. The stuff is lime green and shows up great: http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1137708347 -- Id love to see the quality that pro camera crew can get with these shots.

Specific times in the video:
2:45-2:49; this really shows the excitement of the game. it's a lucky shot for the camera guy, but moves like that happen all the time. even at full speed you'd be able to see the individual shots, but more importantly, the guy getting blown up.

3:15-3:25; another great example of how the color of the paintball itself can lend to a camera happy game. You can see tons of paint in the air and on the guy lol

4:19-4:25; good off the break shot, more paint. all it is is the color.

4:33-4:45; the shot is easy to see, you can see the hit pretty clearly afterward, and after the elimination you're able to see the stream of paint. Shows a lot more drama and excitement imo.

5:50-5:57; i actually saw this shot on the cast, but the paint was a little difficult to see because of the color, i believe it was orange and it just didnt show up too clearly against the red zone bunkers.

6:20-6:26; very easy shot for any camera man to get, on the sideline, following the snake player. nothing difficult, this should be a no brainer kind of shot.

--------------------------

Now, i dont know half the stuff that goes into producing a tv cast or anything, but i really think that with a little time playing with some more eye level angles and some paint colors you could really open up a show a lot more.


/rant.

Last edited by overshot01 : 07-22-2008 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 07-22-2008, 05:25 AM #48
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Man that was a long rant, But someone needs to reproduce the 05 nppl miami on espn. That was the best paintball coverage to date. good color commentary. plenty of info on screen. Graphics showing were a player is shooting and angles. It was near perfect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md4Y44_Vv30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-Mi3a9rn5M&NR=1

Here is also some footage of the uapl. It was started in Jan of 2006 as as pro 3man every week. It as alright and a good example of paintball that was different than a nppl or psp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykKnl...eature=related

Also the smart parts world championship was another good example of paintball on tv at a pro level. Smart parts has all the vids on there youtube page.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_video...rtpartsinc&p=r

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Old 07-22-2008, 05:30 AM #49
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the commentary was a little lacking but not bad....UCI played sloppy towards the end.... ill. deserved it as much as i hate to say it (UCI is about 15 minutes from my house)...... a little more graphical interface would be cool, the game was kinda hard to follow at times....a barrel/helmet cam or 2 would be really cool....but over all it was pretty good coverage from a generic sports casting team (cameramen and such) congratz ill.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:14 AM #50
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Originally Posted by xfactor6911 View Post
Man that was a long rant, But someone needs to reproduce the 05 nppl miami on espn. That was the best paintball coverage to date. good color commentary. plenty of info on screen. Graphics showing were a player is shooting and angles. It was near perfect.
from a showing, ill say yes, but the thing i can remember in watching the games is that there wasnt much excitement to it except in a few instances near the end of the games, hell their "highlight reel" only has about 2 min. of full game speed video and that's the best they can produce over a full tournament?

I totally disagree with the SP tournament, it looked fake and was incredibly hard to follow for anybody outside of the sport.

Somthing i think added to the show: the field design. Great job at making the field easy to see from a spectators view, making a few bunkers very important and even making the corner incredibly hard to make. By the last couple of points when UCI was breaking to that corner, having more agressive breaks my friend was deff. noticing the difficulity in that and stated before matty or bea- "that was an awesome move to the corner" and when Patric Roach got shot out after he made the bump to the dorito one time they stated: "that's their best player on that side of the field, i bet they loose now" which isint much, but what it shows is that they were actually understanding the game instead of just watching. I totally believe that is due to field design and the format because the xball styled play allowed the viewer to key in on specific players as being impact guys- similar to when LeBron James fouls out the entire stadium knows the tempo of the game could drastically change.

another thing that worked: crowd noise. made the game x10 more real. Brilliant idea.

last edit- (i swear to god) breaking the number one rule in video production was ****ing AMAZING :o good job editors

Last edited by overshot01 : 07-22-2008 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:48 AM #51
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from a showing, ill say yes, but the thing i can remember in watching the games is that there wasnt much excitement to it except in a few instances near the end of the games, hell their "highlight reel" only has about 2 min. of full game speed video and that's the best they can produce over a full tournament?

I totally disagree with the SP tournament, it looked fake and was incredibly hard to follow for anybody outside of the sport.

Somthing i think added to the show: the field design. Great job at making the field easy to see from a spectators view, making a few bunkers very important and even making the corner incredibly hard to make. By the last couple of points when UCI was breaking to that corner, having more agressive breaks my friend was deff. noticing the difficulity in that and stated before matty or bea- "that was an awesome move to the corner" and when Patric Roach got shot out after he made the bump to the dorito one time they stated: "that's their best player on that side of the field, i bet they loose now" which isint much, but what it shows is that they were actually understanding the game instead of just watching. I totally believe that is due to field design and the format because the xball styled play allowed the viewer to key in on specific players as being impact guys- similar to when LeBron James fouls out the entire stadium knows the tempo of the game could drastically change.

another thing that worked: crowd noise. made the game x10 more real. Brilliant idea.

While the sp trouny is genrally thought to be subpar, it still had good angles and was very professionally done. The arena was nice and it was a good introduction to xball. For me it was the first time I had ever seen xball as I was just getting into the sport at the time and I understood the format rather quickly. And you also have to remember that the game was done without a crowd so that probably made it seem more fake than it was.

While the college championships had great moments, it lacked in just those few details that can make a big differance. A above field shot would have been nice and just wider shots. It seemed that most of the shots were just of a player shooting or a player gettering shot and walking out. I do agree the sound was great thou. It add a closer feeling to the game and give more sigficance to a play when you hear the crowd make an uproar as a player does a runthr
Also I would have found more clips, but the uapl and the us paintball championships seemed to have disappeared from the web. If it wasn't for those clips it is almost like it didn't exist.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:50 AM #52
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from a showing, ill say yes, but the thing i can remember in watching the games is that there wasnt much excitement to it except in a few instances near the end of the games, hell their "highlight reel" only has about 2 min. of full game speed video and that's the best they can produce over a full tournament?

I totally disagree with the SP tournament, it looked fake and was incredibly hard to follow for anybody outside of the sport.

Somthing i think added to the show: the field design. Great job at making the field easy to see from a spectators view, making a few bunkers very important and even making the corner incredibly hard to make. By the last couple of points when UCI was breaking to that corner, having more agressive breaks my friend was deff. noticing the difficulity in that and stated before matty or bea- "that was an awesome move to the corner" and when Patric Roach got shot out after he made the bump to the dorito one time they stated: "that's their best player on that side of the field, i bet they loose now" which isint much, but what it shows is that they were actually understanding the game instead of just watching. I totally believe that is due to field design and the format because the xball styled play allowed the viewer to key in on specific players as being impact guys- similar to when LeBron James fouls out the entire stadium knows the tempo of the game could drastically change.

another thing that worked: crowd noise. made the game x10 more real. Brilliant idea.

Even though the sp tourny is genrally thought to be subpar, it still had good angles and was very professionally done. The arena was nice and it was a good introduction to xball. For me it was the first time I had ever seen xball as I was just getting into the sport at the time and I understood the format rather quickly. And you also have to remember that the game was done without a crowd so that probably made it seem more fake than it was.

While the college championships had great moments, it lacked in just those few details that can make a big differance. A above field shot would have been nice and just wider shots. It seemed that most of the shots were just of a player shooting or a player gettering shot and walking out. I do agree the sound was great thou. It add a closer feeling to the game and give more sigficance to a play when you hear the crowd make an uproar as a player does a runthrough.

Also I would have found more clips, but the uapl and the us paintball championships seemed to have disappeared from the web. If it wasn't for those clips it is almost like it didn't exist.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:51 AM #53
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While the sp trouny is genrally thought to be subpar, it still had good angles and was very professionally done. The arena was nice and it was a good introduction to xball.
and as it was an introduction id only expect things to be better than it - that's my point. a little was good, a lot was lacking in it and i think that FSN caught most of the mistakes that espn made and capatalized on them, and please remember: im being extremely critical on the FSN cast.
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Old 07-22-2008, 08:55 AM #54
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That game was old it came on tv on the 19th too
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:22 PM #55
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I thought it was ****in legit. Gotta love ISU
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:54 PM #56
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Quote:
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Also, like i said earlier, my friend stated that it was hard to watch because you couldnt see where the people were getting shot, and honestly, im going to blame that on the color of the paint because i know good and well there is some really bright neon stuff that could be used. It was just hard to see the hits.

Chris, id like for you to take a look at this video, it may not mean anything, but i dont understand why a professional company cant mimic some of these shots, also, think about the color of the paint they are using. The stuff is lime green and shows up great: http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1137708347 -- Id love to see the quality that pro camera crew can get with these shots.
We noticed this to. We've had a lot better luck with this in previous years, and I think there were three issues. One was camera guys - sometimes you get guys who 'get it' and sometimes its more difficult. Two was a change in our on-site producer - our old one moved on to a VP position at ABC and couldn't produce the show due to the conflict. And the third was the layout - you probably notices a LOT of points with players bunched up in the center. It's a lot harder to get shots of where players are shooting when both players in a gunfight are in the center of the field.

If you go back to the '05 DVD, when I think we had our best camera men, you'll see a lot more of exactly the shots you're talking about.


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Old 07-22-2008, 02:01 PM #57
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Also note that when you compare our show to the NPPL shows or the Smart Parts show, on a per-episode basis, we spend about one sixth of the money that they do. So a lot of the comments about more on-screen graphics just comes down to cash - on-screen graphics cost money (gotta pay the editors to put them there) - and we just don't have the funding there to do that extensively.

I actually think that's responsible for a lot of the innovation we have - we have to think out of the box to get the message across, which is where ideas like the bunker colors come from.


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Old 07-22-2008, 02:51 PM #58
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Honestly, i think that the simple graphics are better. the game is already a pretty large sensory overload, no need to push it any farther. And word to the producer switch, hopefully next year itll be the same guy and he'll know how the game works a little more.

edit: after thinking some more about the visiuals of the game, i really dont see why this hasnt been thought of yet -- use "optic yellow" paintballs/fill. "Optic Yellow" is the color used in tennisballs (that geen yellow color) and the reason they use that is becaues it was proven to actually show up better on a tv camera than say a white or orange ball.

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Old 07-22-2008, 03:57 PM #59
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Honestly, i think that the simple graphics are better. the game is already a pretty large sensory overload, no need to push it any farther. And word to the producer switch, hopefully next year itll be the same guy and he'll know how the game works a little more.
The producer change was only a small factor, and won't be next year now that we've caught the issue.

Quote:
after thinking some more about the visiuals of the game, i really dont see why this hasnt been thought of yet -- use "optic yellow" paintballs/fill. "Optic Yellow" is the color used in tennisballs (that geen yellow color) and the reason they use that is becaues it was proven to actually show up better on a tv camera than say a white or orange ball.
The two difficulties there are:

- Logistical burden on the paint manufacturers and teams. It's a BYOP event with 3-4 paint companies there, so we'd have to get everyone to make the same color shell in advance. And I don't know how easy it is to make optical-yellow colored paintballs. (also the same color used on fire engines in many places for the same reason - the eye is most sensitive to the yellow/green color.)

- Teams want dark-shelled paint for the same reason we want bright-shelled paint: It's HARDER to see. So now not only do we have to get paint companies to make that paint, we have to convince them to make tournament-grade paint that they can't sell to anyone else, because nobody else is going to want bright-color-shell paint. And we'll have to enforce the shell color since its better for the teams shooting the paint if the shell is a dark color, so that puts us in a position that the team who has a sponsor only sponsoring a couple teams or two now has to burden their sponsor with getting them 50 cases of a special shell color....



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Old 07-22-2008, 04:16 PM #60
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good points, however the paint color is not a total impossibility in the future and it would probably be like when the psp allowed ramping- took some time to get used to, however, nobody thinks twice about it now. My counter argument to the teams is this- yeah, they'll be able to see your paint, but you'll be able to see theirs and honestly when playing you dont usually see the color of the balls, all you see is a black dot moving toward you, even with light shelled paint. So all in good time.


Good discussion.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:22 PM #61
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PSP has some standard-setting ability that we don't have. PSP's ramping change required everyone to get new boards. I could decide tomorrow that everyone needed new certified-semi-auto boards to play in the NCPA, but it wouldn't happen.

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Old 07-22-2008, 04:43 PM #62
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neon yellow paint is the only paint that should be used for the future of paintball.



if we ever want spectators that is.
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Old 07-22-2008, 04:47 PM #63
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PSP has some standard-setting ability that we don't have. PSP's ramping change required everyone to get new boards. I could decide tomorrow that everyone needed new certified-semi-auto boards to play in the NCPA, but it wouldn't happen.

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it was the easiest example i could think of.
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