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Old 07-11-2008, 07:08 PM #1
xluben
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****Dangerous Power (APE) G3/iQ Stock Replacement Board****

This guide is meant to be in addition to the single page printout included
with the board. The intent is to further explain the settings, both their
definitions and the optimal settings. The G3/iQ Stock Replacement Board is
manufactured by APE (Advanced Paintball Electronics).

Here are links to the printout that comes with the board. All of the info on
the printout is contained within this guide (but not the pictures). Thanks to
Gailon for scanning the printout!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gailon View Post
PDF: http://www.mediafire.com/?jy0uzggp5z0
(Click and Download)

Tiff:
(Click for Larger)

JPEG:
(Click for Larger)
The first post will act as a table of contents for the rest of the info.

-------------------------------

See this page for a more detailed description of the G3 works:

G3 Animation

-------------------------------

Board Installation

Instructions

-------------------------------

Marker Control Setpoint Definitions:

MGRF

Firing Mode

Ramp Point

Trigger Debounce

Solenoid Dwell

ABS Dwell

-------------------------------

Non-Adjustable Features (Always On):

MGRF Eyes Off

Breech/Eye Delay

Auto Shutoff

Trigger Buffering

-------------------------------

07/11/08: Initial posting of the guide. No pictures are included and the
dwell setting section is incomplete. Dwell section will be revised shortly
and installation pictures may be added sometime in the future. A board
setting video will also be made.

Last edited by xluben : 07-11-2008 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:08 PM #2
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-------------------------------
Board Installation
-------------------------------

1. Remove 4 grip screws with 3/32" allen key.
2. Remove wrap around grip panels from grip frame.
3. Disconnect battery from battery harness.
4. Disconnect wire connections from board.
*Pull gently on connectors.
*Be careful not to damage wires.
5. Remove 3 Phillips head screws from opposite side of board.
6. Remove board from frame and replace with new board.
7. Install 3 Phillips head screws to hold board in place.
*Begin by installing all screws halfway.
*Then finish tightening screw by hand.
*Do NOT over tighten board screws.
8. Plug wires into board connectors.
*Make sure to observe polarity.
*Make sure to install into correct connectors.
9. Install battery, grips and grip screws.
10. Turn on power (tap power button).
11. Turn off eyes (tap power button again).
12. Adjust forward and rear trigger stops so the trigger activates optical
sensor.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:08 PM #3
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-------------------------------
MGRF (Max Global Rate of Fire):
-------------------------------

This sets the "Eyes On" Max Global Rate of Fire (in balls per second) of
all firing modes.

Suggested Setting:

Default - 13
Min Value - 5
Max Value - 25

A setting of 25 operates the marker in "uncapped" mode for NPPL semi
tournament play. PSP and NXL formats require 13 BPS, Millennium requires 12
BPS. User is responsible for legal program settings.

How to Adjust MGRF:

1. Depress trigger while turning on gun.
2. Pull trigger to cycle through LED colors until Red is displayed.
3. Tap power button. LED will blink current setting.
4. Tap power button again. LED will quickly cycle through all colors.
5. Pull trigger the desired number of times.
6. Tap power button. LED will quickly cycles through all colors. Setting
is saved.
7. Hold power button to turn off gun.
8. Tap power button to turn gun back on with new setting.

EDIT: More info on MGRF

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
MGRF @ 25BPS = uncapped

The way the manual (shown below) is worded, I wasn't sure if it was actually
uncapped or that 25BPS was just close enough that it would work for NPPL
semi auto.

I set it to 25 and used a squeegie to block the eyes. I Goldwaved the noid
cycling with and without air applied and it came in at about 55 CPS! That is
just about right for dwell of 15 and eye delay of 3:

1 / ( 0.015 + 0.003) = 55.55CPS

I don't think the debounce time delay is included because I was in NXL mode.

*I have no idea if the noid is fully cycling, and I'm SURE the gun itself
can't keep up with 55BPS, but the main point was that MGRF @ 25 actually
does "uncap" the gun. I thought this may interest some people who think
they can get their loader going faster than 25BPS

***Also note***

The MGRF and Solenoid Dwell settings both have allowable ranges from 5 - 25
milliseconds. While setting the value:

-If you pull the trigger less than 5 times it defaults to the min value of 5
-If you pull the trigger more than 25 times it defaults to the max value of 25

The first case is different from some other boards I've used, in which the
number of "clicks" it takes to set the setting starts at the min valu.

The second case is true for all modes.

Last edited by xluben : 07-11-2008 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:08 PM #4
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-------------------------------
Firing Mode:
-------------------------------

This value determines the Power On Firing Mode of the marker. User is
responsible for legal program settings.

Semi - Fires 1 shot for each trigger pull PSP3 - Three shots in Semi then
transitions to 3 Round Burst. Returns to Semi after 1 Second of no
activity. NXL - Semi for the first 3 shots, then Full Automatic on the 4th
pull and hold. Resets to Semi after 1 second of no Activity. Millennium -
Fire required three shots in Semi, then Semi until transition to double
rate of fire when trigger pull rate >= Ramp Point. Resets to Semi after
trigger release or pull rate < Ramp Point.

Suggested Setting:

Default - 1
Min Value - 1
Max Value - 4

1 = Semi
2 = PSP
3 = NXL
4 = Millennium

How to Adjust Firing Mode:

1. Pull and hold trigger while turning on gun (tap power button).
2. Pull trigger to cycle through LED colors until Green is displayed.
3. Tap power button. LED will blink current setting.
4. Tap power button again. LED will quickly cycle through all colors.
5. Pull trigger the desired number of times.
6. Tap power button. LED will quickly cycles through all colors. Setting
is saved.
7. Hold power button to turn off gun.
8. Tap power button to turn gun back on with new setting.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:08 PM #5
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-------------------------------
Ramp Point:
-------------------------------

Determines the ramping point of the currently assigned Firing Mode.

This is the number of semi auto shots that must be fired before the marker
starts to ramp (in PSP and NXL modes).

There is a fixed 3 shots of semi for Millennium mode, and the ramp point is
the rate at which the trigger must be pulled in order to engage ramping.
After the 3 shots the board will look for a pull rate equal to or greater than
the ramp point before doubling the firing rate (up to the cap). For legal
Millenium mode settings this rate is 6 pulls per second at which the board
jumps to 12BPS.

Suggested Setting:

Default - 3
Min Value - 1
Max Value - 10

Tournament legal setting is 3 for PSP/NXL modes, 6 for Millennium Mode.
User is responsible for legal program settings.

How to Adjust Ramp Activation Shot count:

1. Pull and hold trigger while turning on gun (tap power button).
2. Pull trigger to cycle through LED colors until Yellow is displayed.
3. Tap power button. LED will blink current setting.
4. Tap power button again. LED will quickly cycle through all colors.
5. Pull trigger the desired number of times.
6. Tap power button. LED will quickly cycles through all colors. Setting
is saved.
7. Hold power button to turn off gun.
8. Tap power button to turn gun back on with new setting.

Last edited by xluben : 07-12-2008 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:09 PM #6
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-------------------------------
Trigger Debounce:
-------------------------------

This value sets amount of time (in milliseconds) the trigger must remain
inactive prior to accepting a new trigger pull.

The reason for this is because the switch will actually tend to close
several times before and after you actually compress the trigger fully
(known as switch bounce), which causes the board to think you've fired
multiple shots quickly in a row. This is due to any number of factors which
I won't bother explaining here, but know that it is a characteristic
present on all switches (used for paintball guns or not).

It can also control the trigger optical sensitivity. A debounce value of
1-15 provides the most sensitive optical trigger operation, and a debounce
time proportional to the setpoint. A value of 16-31 provides a less
sensitive trigger (requires more physical travel across the optical
sensor), and a debounce time equal to the setpoint value minus 15.

Example: debounce = setpoint - 15
If setpoint is 25
Then 25 - 15 = 10
Debounce is 10ms

Suggested Setting:

Default - 7
Min Value - 1
Max Value - 31

Debounce should only be set as high as required to filter out unnecessary
bounce. In brief, lower this setting and your marker has a higher chance of
adding shots (and vice-versa). The default setting on the "stock
replacement" board is 7ms, however a higher setting may be necessary in
order to prevent the marker from adding shots.

A good way to test this is to compress the trigger as slowly as possible
and see how many times the marker fires. If the marker fires more than once
when you pull it, your marker is bouncing and the setting should be
increased. If the marker fires once and only once, the current setting is
sufficient. I have found that the stock setting of 7ms is completely
bounce-free on my gun.

How to Adjust Debounce:

1. Pull and hold trigger while turning on gun (tap power button).
2. Pull trigger to cycle through LED colors until Red Flash is displayed.
3. Tap power button. LED will blink current setting.
4. Tap power button again. LED will quickly cycle through all colors.
5. Pull trigger the desired number of times.
6. Tap power button. LED will quickly cycles through all colors. Setting
is saved.
7. Hold power button to turn off gun.
8. Tap power button to turn gun back on with new setting.

EDIT: More info on Debounce

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
Another note:

I tried setting the debounce down to 1 (lowest setting), and I STILL can't get any slow pull bounce, AT ALL!!!!

Anyone else try this out? It looks like they really fixed the logic for that aspect of the board.

Last edited by xluben : 07-11-2008 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:09 PM #7
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-------------------------------
Soleniod Dwell:
-------------------------------

This value controls the amount of time (in milliseconds) the solenoid is
energized. If too low, the marker will not cycle. If the value is too high,
the solenoid remains on too long, wasting battery power and air.

In brief, dwell is the name for the amount of time the marker will open the
valve to release pressure to fire the ball. Because of this, increases in
dwell generally cause increases in velocity, and decreases generally cause
lower velocity (however there are working limits to this). Dwell can affect
a number of other things, including but not limited to velocity,
consistency, efficiency, and maximum rate of fire.

The dwell setting on your marker is what allows the bolt to fully cycle
from shot to shot. If dwell is set too low, the bolt will half-stroke and
the gun won't fire properly. If set too high, the valve will be open for
too long and air will be wasted, decreasing efficiency. Because of this,
it's generally best to use the lowest dwell setting possible, while still
keeping it above the point where the marker has trouble firing.

Dwell is a trade off between "too high" and "too low". Accordingly, there
is no such thing as a "perfect" dwell setting. Some guns will require a
higher setting than others, depending on the parts, manufacturing
characteristics, weather conditions, etc etc. Each gun requires a bit of
experimentation to find the optimal setting that should be used.

Suggested Setting:

Default - 15
Min Value - 5
Max Value - 25

Now that the background info on dwell has been covered, here is one
possible method for finding an optimal dwell for your G3. These
instructions are based on the fact that the G3 does not currently come with
a gauge. In other guns using the pressure as a starting point to work off
of is sometimes the easiest option. Without that on the G3 it would be too
easy for someone to over pressurize (and possibly damage the solenoid) or
under pressurize (and cause firing inconsistencies) if given that extra
variable to play with.

1. Set the dwell to the 15ms setting. This is the stock setting on the G3
and should provide a good (conservative) starting point.
2. Using good paint and a chrono, adjust the velocity to your normal
operating range (under 300fps). In effect, this will set your pressure to a
good starting point and address the issue described above. By using the
15ms setting you should have good consistency and be well within the safe
operating limits for pressure.
3. Remove all paintballs from the gun and turn the eyes off. The next few
steps involve dry firing only.
4. Adjust the dwell to the lowest setting.
5. Increase the dwell 1ms at a time and dry fire at each setting. Stop when
the gun begins to fully cycle. At the low settings the gun will sound
erratic and muffled. When the gun begins to fully cycle each should will be
loud and sound very similar.
6. After the G3 is fully cycling, add another 2ms to the dwell time and
that is your new dwell setting.
7. Add paint, turn eyes back on, and adjust velocity to the correct range
using a chronograph.

This dwell setting should provide very good shot to shot consistency, while
still allowing optimum efficiency. The dwell is just high enough to fully
cycle the bolt for each shot but not too high that it wastes extra air by
holding the bolt forward too long.

How to Adjust Dwell:

1. Pull and hold trigger while turning on gun (tap power button).
2. Pull trigger to cycle through LED colors until Green Flash is displayed.
3. Tap power button. LED will blink current setting.
4. Tap power button again. LED will quickly cycle through all colors.
5. Pull trigger the desired number of times.
6. Tap power button. LED will quickly cycles through all colors. Setting
is saved.
7. Hold power button to turn off gun.
8. Tap power button to turn gun back on with new setting.

EDIT: More info on the dwell setting:

Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben View Post
***Also note***

The MGRF and Solenoid Dwell settings both have allowable ranges from 5 - 25
milliseconds. While setting the value:

-If you pull the trigger less than 5 times it defaults to the min value of 5
-If you pull the trigger more than 25 times it defaults to the max value of 25

The first case is different from some other boards I've used, in which the
number of "clicks" it takes to set the setting starts at the min valu.

The second case is true for all modes.

Last edited by xluben : 07-11-2008 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:09 PM #8
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-------------------------------
ABS Dwell:
-------------------------------

Adds an additional 1-3 milliseconds of dwell time to the programmed
solenoid dwell setpoint on the first shot of any string of shots after a
fixed 20 seconds of shooting inactivity. A value of 4 disables the ABS
Dwell feature.

This is useful if the marker is experiencing first shot dropoff problems
(known as FSDO), where the first shot you fire is much slower in velocity
than the rest. This is normally caused by the bolt, in which case ABS can
be used to guard against it.

Suggested Setting:

Default - 4
Min Value - 1
Max Value - 4

On the "stock replacement" board the default ABS setting is 0ms added dwell
time. If ABS is set too low, the marker's first shot will still move slower
than the rest. Alternately, setting ABS too high will add velocity to the
first shot, so you would then have to turn the velocity down over the
chronograph (which would put you at a disadvantage).

The perfect ABS setting may be difficult to find, since you would have to
adjust it, wait a while, test over a chrono, then repeat. Because of this I
suggest leaving the stock setting (ABS disabled) and testing the gun out;
if at that point the first shot is reasonably strong, just leave the
setting there. I have not had any FSDO problems with my G3, so the stock
setting works fine. If you do adjust it to a point where the first shot is
higher than the others, decrease the ABS setting.

How to Adjust ABS:

1. Pull and hold trigger while turning on gun (tap power button).
2. Pull trigger to cycle through LED colors until Yellow Flash is displayed.
3. Tap power button. LED will blink current setting.
4. Tap power button again. LED will quickly cycle through all colors.
5. Pull trigger the desired number of times.
6. Tap power button. LED will quickly cycles through all colors. Setting
is saved.
7. Hold power button to turn off gun.
8. Tap power button to turn gun back on with new setting.

Last edited by xluben : 07-11-2008 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:09 PM #9
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-------------------------------
Non-Adjustable Features (Always On)
-------------------------------

-------------------------------
MGRF Eyes OFF:
-------------------------------

When the Eyes are shutoff, the MGRF is overridden to 10BPS.

This is to prevent further chopping in a situation which the eyes malfunction.

-------------------------------
Breech/Eye Delay:
-------------------------------

The value controls the amount of time (in milliseconds) the eyes must see a
ball in the breech prior to cycling the bolt. This will be a fixed 3
milliseconds and will compensate for different paint grades and feed
methods. This delay will be run in series with all the bolt related timing.

This is a small delay setting that is used to prevent chopping during that
split second between when the ball is detected by the eye, and when it
actually clears the top of the bolt and is seated in the chamber. This is a
necessary delay because the ball is detected on its way down into the
chamber, not as soon as it reaches the bottom and settles in.

-------------------------------
Auto Shutoff:
-------------------------------

The marker will shut off automatically after 20 minutes of NO firing
activity.

-------------------------------
Trigger Buffering:
-------------------------------

This buffers a trigger pull during the bolt cycle, resulting in your marker
firing more smoothly in all modes.

Without this feature, a lower MGRF setting in the semi auto firing mode would
inevitably lead to many skipped shots. Any time the trigger was pulled again
before the appropriate amount of time, the trigger pull would be ignored. If
you set the MGRF to 15BPS and pulled the trigger 16 times per second, the
sequence could lead to as few as 8 shots per second! With this feature all
those extra trigger pulls are stored and the gun would fire a nice even 15BPS.

Last edited by xluben : 07-11-2008 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:09 PM #10
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Looks like I may not have to make a overview/settings video.

Thanks to kooky47 for this great vid. I agree with all the comments he made


Last edited by xluben : 07-11-2008 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:09 PM #11
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saved

Last edited by xluben : 07-11-2008 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:18 PM #12
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Right now I am not 100% sure the dwell setting method is ideal. It is based on
dwell setting methods used on other similar markers for maximum efficiency
without erratic velocity. I would expect it to be the same for the G3, but it may
have excess kick, hard on paint, etc, etc. Once I get to do some more
extensive testing I will update that section.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:19 PM #13
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SO I do not need to move my post

Ok fine I delted it !




Did Ck do good this time?
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:13 AM #14
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luben and kooky..... is the board worth the CA$H ????? It looks to me yeah but then just like always XLUBEN your the man and have the new toys first. Also is this the board from DP ??? Thanks xluben for the write up and kooky for the vid.
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Old 07-12-2008, 04:08 PM #15
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damn seeing the video now makes me want to get the new board and not wait for the other board coming soon.. what do you guys think
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Old 07-12-2008, 04:16 PM #16
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just wondering, does it have a Eye Error thing where if you chop it automatically reduces the BPS lower?
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:19 PM #17
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after playing today I think I am calling DP monday and getting my board.Now I cant wait til monday afternoon

Albert APE has an eye logic that reduces the BPS when the eyes malfunction.
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:44 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert 93 View Post
just wondering, does it have a Eye Error thing where if you chop it automatically reduces the BPS lower?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlemoe View Post
Albert APE has an eye logic that reduces the BPS when the eyes malfunction.
I do not believe this is true. I don't see any logic that checks if the eyes
actually clear between shots. I can turn the eyes on, set it to uncapped NXL,
block the eyes with my finger and it will ramp to 50bps+
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:16 PM #19
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if anyones new board isnt reading the trigger pulls, i will make a tut on how to fix it, until dp sends you a new trigger
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:22 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudeawakening 7 View Post
if anyones new board isnt reading the trigger pulls, i will make a tut on how to fix it, until dp sends you a new trigger
It is not reading even after adjustment?
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Old 07-13-2008, 10:59 AM #21
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does anyone know if Jim is making these boards??? Jims mini boards have kickin' eye logic. So I will go out on a limb and say Jim isn't back in action after his cancer. He was out for a very long time and I never heard if he's back working again. So if no eye logic either someone push'd this board out to be FIRST and may rerelease or reflash boards sometime soon. Sorry guy if I was not correct on this but I know Jim is the man when he works on his boards. Again sorry for the wrong info.
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IrishMafia
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DSK LUCKY 7

Badass Secondary Honorary, Super-Duper, Awesome, Superman Ain't Got **** On Them, (you get the point) Council:
1.phlemoe- BADASS With one Lung
2. Chuck Norris
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