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Old 07-10-2008, 03:27 PM #43
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That's avery good Idea. The 06/07 borg boad is very small so it can be fit into compact spots.

Probably was the board. It was a tadao board.
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:02 PM #44
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Also a universal t board is small as can be. If you run out of room you can always use those.

And their eye logic/ programming is newer than any aka based board.

I need to get around to doing this myself as well.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:13 PM #45
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Like everyone said, you're basically building a evil m. I'd talk to Coolhand and see if he can give you any hints or advice. He owns 40 some evil m bodies, as well as made the valkyrie from scratch. He's probably full of good ideas. He might even sell you an evil m body and make your project a bit easier. There's also a couple other guys in the aka forum that have evil m's in various states of completion, might want to post this up there and see what they have to say.
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:53 AM #46
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I can't quite figure out what you guys are referring to as a "ram cartridge"? it better not involve snap rings because they are the devil.
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:14 AM #47
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That'd be it there. No snap rings. Pay no attention the 2 bare metal things, they're tools used to take it out/apart, this was the best picture I could find. It's a nice little self contained unit. Best thing about a viking ram, it really never needs to be taken apart, few drops of oil in the asa take care of all the maintnence it needs.
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:20 AM #48
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Perhaps I am missing something here. Please correct me if I am wrong. The Viking uses a ram housing that has no back cap, but instead uses an insert that butts up against the marker body and is held together by the housing threading?

Would that be an accurate assumption? What would the advantage of that system be over a rammer with a back cap?
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:34 AM #49
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Not sure what you mean. What you see there is the entire hammer assembly. No caps. What is in the pictures is what threads into the back of the gun. It goes in and comes out as one piece. It does not need the marker body to hold itself together, it's one complete unit outside of the gun.(If you could hook air up to it, it would funcion outside of the gun.) The advantages to it is, it doesn't need to be taken apart, or taken out of the gun ever. For example on a borg you're supposed to take the ram out, take it apart, lube it, put it back together and put it back in the gun, compared to a viking where you're supposed to put 2 drops of oil in the asa. Which would you rather do?

If you mean what is holding the ram together? The ram holds itself together. The front is threaded to the back to make one unit.

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Old 07-11-2008, 10:26 AM #50
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The thing is with the cyborg ram there is no tools necessary to take the ram out and there is also nothing to take apart. All you have to do is screw off the ram cap and take the housing and the ram out. Lube the ram then put it back in the housing adn youre done. It's pretty damn simple to me.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:13 AM #51
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The thing is with the cyborg ram there is no tools necessary to take the ram out and there is also nothing to take apart. All you have to do is screw off the ram cap and take the housing and the ram out. Lube the ram then put it back in the housing adn youre done. It's pretty damn simple to me.
You're missing the advantage of cartridges here. Cartridges don't have to be removed. For example, I owned an 02 Excalibur. The cartridge on it had NEVER been removed in 6 YEARS, yet it still ran like brand new. That is the advantage of cartridges.

6 years vs a few times a month. Which would you pick?

Not to mention, you could make a new cartridge that would remove without tools, however, that would ruin the "idiot proof-ness" of the design.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:24 AM #52
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You're missing the advantage of cartridges here. Cartridges don't have to be removed. For example, I owned an 02 Excalibur. The cartridge on it had NEVER been removed in 6 YEARS, yet it still ran like brand new. That is the advantage of cartridges.

6 years vs a few times a month. Which would you pick?

Not to mention, you could make a new cartridge that would remove without tools, however, that would ruin the "idiot proof-ness" of the design.
Wow, I want to know what you budget for paint is. I have found that most MacDevers and myself included, take out and relube the ram every five or so cases. That being said, only about once a month or so. Actually, I take mine apart about once every five months, unless I am playing the SPPL, where I relube after every tournament (Two days, almost hour long games, I tend to shoot almost a full case per game), and I have just done three SPPL tournaments in the last two months.

Granted, nothing is better than two drops of oil in the ASA every case or so, but if you can't make the parts to the same tolerances as AKA, then at least making it easy to remove to relube and such is a good idea.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:29 AM #53
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Wow, I want to know what you budget for paint is.
Actually, I lube up after every 2-4 days of playing, which is about 1000 balls for me. I play rough though and dirt gets everywhere (Southern Utah sand; woot!). The question is what is your budget for paint? I can't see how people can even afford a case every weekend.

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Granted, nothing is better than two drops of oil in the ASA every case or so, but if you can't make the parts to the same tolerances as AKA, then at least making it easy to remove to relube and such is a good idea.
Definitely the next best thing if you won't hold the same tolerances, but we're talking about a custom project. If it's custom you have to use the best. It made it real nice though when I had my borg to study the design because I could pop it out in 5 seconds.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:47 AM #54
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I generally only play once a month. I say generally once a month, as a couple of months back, I played a big game (Two or so cases of paint), then the next weekend, I was in Utah for the SPPL (About four to five cases of paint), then two weeks later, I was in California for SPPL (Again, about four to five cases of paint). And Memorial Day was thrown in there for good measure. Other than SPPL last month, I did not play in June, and I will most likely not play until again until July 19th for a get together of other AKAers. Most likely once in August, once in September, and October has SPPL finals.
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:41 PM #55
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I was in Utah for the SPPL
And you didn't come visit ? Gee, I didn't even know there was an SPPL tournament here.
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:37 PM #56
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the cartridge system does not make the internals wear less
the cyborg design is actualy superior because of it's disassembly, which was the original intent of the cartridge, to be self contained and easily removed.
more recent ram designs use fewer o-rings and are easier to disassemble, neither ram containment systems cause the critical dynamic seals to be any more less reliable.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:58 PM #57
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MacDev already has the best poppet marker in my book. But Bob is making some headway with his newest Timmys.
The timmies are suposed to be as efficient as the viking, haven't shot either one but i assume the AKA is a bit smoother.
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:59 PM #58
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You're missing the advantage of cartridges here. Cartridges don't have to be removed. For example, I owned an 02 Excalibur. The cartridge on it had NEVER been removed in 6 YEARS, yet it still ran like brand new. That is the advantage of cartridges.

6 years vs a few times a month. Which would you pick?

Not to mention, you could make a new cartridge that would remove without tools, however, that would ruin the "idiot proof-ness" of the design.
True. The cartridge design isn't a bad one but they could have made it better to be removed. There are more o rings with that design though. Like I said I guess it's personal preference. I see you own a DC 05 so you should know the difference. Also would you be willing to sell it?? I'm looking to pick up another 05. Do you still have it?

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Actually, I lube up after every 2-4 days of playing, which is about 1000 balls for me. I play rough though and dirt gets everywhere (Southern Utah sand; woot!). The question is what is your budget for paint? I can't see how people can even afford a case every weekend.
I afford more than two cases a weekend. Sometimes that what I use in a day. Well for 25 a pop I can afford it.

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The timmies are suposed to be as efficient as the viking, haven't shot either one but i assume the AKA is a bit smoother.
My protege gets a hopper and 6 pods off a 68/3000. I'd say it has pretty damn good efficency. The protege is fairly smooth too. I just need the LP poppet.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:13 PM #59
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Originally Posted by dmansr25sd View Post
the cartridge system does not make the internals wear less
the cyborg design is actualy superior because of it's disassembly, which was the original intent of the cartridge, to be self contained and easily removed.
more recent ram designs use fewer o-rings and are easier to disassemble, neither ram containment systems cause the critical dynamic seals to be any more less reliable.
You missed the entire point... Sure the Borg's ram is easier to disassemble, but that's a moot point considering you're never going to have to take apart a ram cartridge.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:14 PM #60
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There are more o rings with that design though.
There are more orings in the viking cartridge yes, but what does it matter if they never go bad? Seriously go in the aka forum and ask, see how many people have ever needed to take their ram apart to replace an oring. I'm sure it will be almost no one. People really don't seem to understand this unless they've owned an AKA. Viking's and Excal's are zero maintnence. All you have to do is put oil in the ASA, I'm not making it up. It's one of the biggest reasons people buy AKA's.

And my DC borg is not for sale.


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the cartridge system does not make the internals wear less
the cyborg design is actualy superior because of it's disassembly, which was the original intent of the cartridge, to be self contained and easily removed.
more recent ram designs use fewer o-rings and are easier to disassemble, neither ram containment systems cause the critical dynamic seals to be any more less reliable.
Once again, ease of removal and dissassembly on the borg ram might have been what macdev was going for, and they did a nice job. However, it is not superior. AKA's intent was not to build an easily removable/serviceable ram, it was to build a ram that never needed to be removed or taken apart and they did a great job on that. The original owners manual to my viking tells you not to even take it out. If given the choice, I would take the one that never needs to be touched over the easy to remove one. I love my borgs as much as I love my vikings, but when it comes to the rams, I'll take the viking ram any day.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:40 PM #61
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just for fun, take a look at the angel 1 magno ram and valve. the angel 1 uses a ram cartridge that is fully sealed against debris. it cant be rebuilt or cleaned like others, but it is 100% zero maintenance. the magno valve is a real cool trick though. I just installed mine today. cut the operating pressure by half, dropped lpr by 10, and gave me another 500 shots per tank. also makes the gun very quiet, and ball on ball accurate at 90 feet (what I tested anyway)
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:45 PM #62
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That was another route I was thinking of going with. Possibly doing angel internals. Everything from WDP is metric threaded though.

DOAT probably a good thing you wont get rid of it. I wanted to get my 05 dc milled when I had it but never did. I wish I never got rid of the gun. I love the way yours looks.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:06 PM #63
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And you didn't come visit ? Gee, I didn't even know there was an SPPL tournament here.
It was almost two months ago, and it was in N. SLC at the owners property. If you get a chance, talk to the Desert Edge guys. They fielded two teams.

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The timmies are suposed to be as efficient as the viking, haven't shot either one but i assume the AKA is a bit smoother.
Yeah, I have a Protege that I used at both the Cali and Oregon SPPL's that was working out quite nice.

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My protege gets a hopper and 6 pods off a 68/3000. I'd say it has pretty damn good efficency. The protege is fairly smooth too. I just need the LP poppet.
I know that a couple of games, I shoot a case or bit over off of my GA 68/4500 tank. I have the LP poppet, and it is a bit quieter, but seemingly, it picked up a bit of a kick. Kinda weird. My guess is that it needs to be broken in a bit.
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