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Old 07-10-2008, 08:06 AM #22
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That won't work. The green internal air line will have to go forward more. It has to go past the O-rings on the LPR.

IMHO, you are doing this whole thing backwards. You should be peck drilling from the front and feeding the air to a small manifold or barb the will feed the solenoid. Then you can use the same manifold or barbs to move air to the ram where needed. Peck drilling anything more than 5" is really difficult.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:11 AM #23
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What is peck drilling? Are you saying instead of using ducts, to just use hoses and barbs?
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:17 AM #24
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Peck drilling is how you are going to have to do the "ducts" as you call it. It means you drill a bit and back out so the chips fall out and then go back in. Rinse and repeat until you reach the drill depth you desire. If you try to drill the whole thing in one go you will bust your drill bit with such a deep drill hole and such a small drill bit.

You can use hoses and barbs, but that wouldn't be my preferred option.

*Edit*

Also, you are going to need an O-ring groove at the front of the marker as the LPR threading simply won't seal pressure.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:19 AM #25
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Sorry man, but you lost me then... I understand the peck drilling but what is your preferred option?
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:21 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowGuy View Post
Sorry man, but you lost me then... I understand the peck drilling but what is your preferred option?
Manifold or direct mount. Direct mount would be difficult to say the least without figuring a way to retain the valve in a different manner than is typically done in a stacked tube pneumatic marker (i.e. Set screw through bottom or marker won't work well in a direct mount setup).

*Edit*

Actually that's a bit of a lie. It would be possible to use a banjo bolt to pass air right though the center of the marker.
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:46 AM #27
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Spitlebug, I would tweak your bolt design a little to have a 60* inlet and a conical opening. It makes it more gas efficient. I like the magnet idea though.

Running the air through shouldn't be too difficult to work out once you have a 3D model of it up. Working in 2D makes it a bit harder to visualize. You could attach the noid just like on a borg, with a small air passage on the bottom corner of the gun and a manifold to run the air between the noid and the passages.

Quote:
does anybody have pics of the evil M?
Yep, this is the early prototype
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:46 PM #28
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^^^I will see your picture of the Evil M and up you a whole thread: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1444912
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:51 PM #29
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Do remember though, the evil-m pictured was only the proof of concept gun. The real thing might not have even used Merlin Extrusion, and from what Aaron said, it wouldn't have. Perhaps some of the suggestions in this thread would have been used? BTW, I suggest you get your hands on an 04 Viking RT valve for this project.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:38 PM #30
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Well basically the Cyborg and the Evil M are the same gun. I owned an 05 and 06 and they way they worked were basically the same. There were differences though. The 05 used a manifold but had the LP air fed to it by a hose. The 06 had a manifold but no hoses at all. The internals look pretty much the same. I was thinking of using cyborg parts for my project because I'm familiar with them and the bores for the Ram don't necessarily have to be the best, but they have to provide a seal.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:57 PM #31
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Quote:
Well basically the Cyborg and the Evil M are the same gun. I owned an 05 and 06 and they way they worked were basically the same. There were differences though. The 05 used a manifold but had the LP air fed to it by a hose. The 06 had a manifold but no hoses at all. The internals look pretty much the same. I was thinking of using cyborg parts for my project because I'm familiar with them and the bores for the Ram don't necessarily have to be the best, but they have to provide a seal.
My response..........
Quote:
And for those thinking of saying, "get a cyborg; they're the same thing" I will tell you you're wrong right now. Borgs require more maintenance, as well as being less efficient. Also, the machining tolerances aren't as tight as AKA stuff. That's why Borgs use DOW 33 and the like whereas AKAs only use oil.
The cartridge system is just much better than the cyborgs ram housing thing. Also, the Tornado beats the red valve for efficiency, the Lightning bolt owns the sonic bolt, and AKA regs whoop MacDev regs (especially their LPRS). Also, The dual/quad detent style used in Vikings makes for better eye detection and ball holding than MacDev's "dual" detents.

Also, might I suggest using semi-internal eyes i.e. the angled hole in the side of this....(it makes creating eye covers and fitting them with the frame easier)

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Old 07-10-2008, 03:22 PM #32
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Cyborg parts are much more readily available than Viking parts though. Probaly cost alot less than the Viks too. The ram housing on the cyborgs does not need a tool to be removed, which is something I prefer.Even though I can order A tornado valve for Bko's from ASP. The LPR's are pretty close in similarity. They both use schrader valves to regulate the air. As far as bolts I'm not comparing those. More than likely I would create my own. I would probably end up using a 2 liter anyways since all I can buy are the 05/06 style of gladiator. The dual detent would be interesting. I havent thought that far into the machining of a gun.

Also the maintenance on the borgs is not bad at all. It would take me usually about 5 minutes to do the whole gun. My Protege that I currently have takes alot longer than that.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:28 PM #33
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Actually, if you just call AKA, DC, or email/PM DC then you can easily get AKA parts. They are slightly more expensive, but worth it. Also, the SCM III or STD JDS do not use a schrader valve.

IMO, and after shooting AKA guns and an 06 Borg, AKA guns run smoother and have a nicer feel to them. Especially the frames.......don't even get me started on any MacDev frames and triggers.

As a random side note, since the Evil-M has been discussed, do you guys think the ego would have become nearly as popular as it is now if AKA stuck around and made the Evil-M?
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:34 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatdoolinkid View Post
The cartridge system is just much better than the cyborgs ram housing thing. Also, the Tornado beats the red valve for efficiency, the Lightning bolt owns the sonic bolt, and AKA regs whoop MacDev regs (especially their LPRS). Also, The dual/quad detent style used in Vikings makes for better eye detection and ball holding than MacDev's "dual" detents.
And yet, Cyborgs have the same efficiency, as well as they require less maintainence than just about anything else other than a Viking or Excal.

I am not saying that Cyborgs are just as good as AKA, but they are as close as you can get these days that is still making markers.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:37 PM #35
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I traded my 06 borg for A DC milled viking and hated the thing. I shot it for one day and got rid of it. Everyone has their personal opinion though. If you look at the SCM 3 internals there is a schrader valve. I loved the frame on the 05 but the 06 I hated also. I think if AKA stuck around they probably would have been one of the top companies up there with Eclipse and MD.

http://www.airsoldier.com:8080/cgi-bin/mivavm?Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOS&Product_Co de=AKA-SCM3-INTERNALS&Category_Code=REGULATORS
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:39 PM #36
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Quote:
And yet, Cyborgs have the same efficiency, as well as they require less maintainence than just about anything else other than a Viking or Excal.

I am not saying that Cyborgs are just as good as AKA, but they are as close as you can get these days that is still making markers.
Agreed wholeheartedly. I still hate it whenever I see an Ego because the person using it never realized they could get a borg that requires less maintenance, has better regs, better quality, better efficiency, lower feedneck (curse dumb ego feednecks), quieter, and with less kick. To say the least, I hate egos.............

Hopefully the MacDev guys that are making the next generation of cyborgs are listening and will implement some of these ideas from this thread. If MacDev tried, they could easily have the best poppet marker hands down.

Edit: Looking at the MacDev LPR vs the AKA ones, there are many similarities. Too Bad Aaron's current LPR design isn't produced as much as it should....



Quote:
I traded my 06 borg for A DC milled viking and hated the thing.
Might I ask why?

Back on topic, who do you plan to machine this for you ShadowGuy?
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:43 PM #37
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MacDev already has the best poppet marker in my book. But Bob is making some headway with his newest Timmys.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:48 PM #38
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If MacDev tried, they could easily have the best poppet marker hands down.
Key word being hands down. They have the best open-bolt poppet currently on the market IMO, but it's not as clear cut as it could be. Give the borg an air-assist valve, hammer cartridge, true dual detents, better bolt, more flashy and lighter milling (for the noobs out there that think paintball is a fashion show and can't lift 2 lbs), better frame and trigger, and improve it's LPR and no open-bolt poppet marker would even compare.
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:02 PM #39
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I may do the machining for shadowguy. I just need to improve my skills in 3D design.

Ego's designs are not that bad now though. I bout my 06 when the 06 ego was out and it blew it away. I owned an 06 ego and I hated that thing too.
I believe the next gen of Borg will be the crap out of the next gen ego since they cant do much more to improve it.

I don't know why I didn't like the vike. I used it in a game or two and it wasn't doin too good for me. I ended up using my 05 borg for a while after that.
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:07 PM #40
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I don't know why I didn't like the vike. I used it in a game or two and it wasn't doin too good for me. I ended up using my 05 borg for a while after that.
Inconsistent? Chopping? Details please. I'd hate to have someone not like a Viking.
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:14 PM #41
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It was actually a little bit of both. It did chop alot.
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:17 PM #42
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Probably didn't have the board and regs set up correctly. It's a common problem since most people don't have the LPR tester and the boards are real old. BTW, that's why i suggest using a Borg board. The AKA ones are just way too old of programming.
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