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Old 06-29-2008, 11:22 PM #1
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I still have the same complaint..

A team shouldn't be able to win a match on a penalty.
There is no other sport where this is acceptable.

Basketball - Can not end on a penalty - Free Throws are thrown after the clock expired.

Football - Can not end on a penalty - 1 final play is ran at 0:00

Hockey - Can not end on a penalty - Opposing team can not touch puck w/o causing a foul.

By Chris' own words, it means a lot more to cheat at the end of the game then it does at the beginning of the game. Its crappy that "When" a ref finds out that a team is cheating, can drastically effect the entire game, and it shouldn't.

The 5th / 7th / 9th point should be won clean, if after the flag is hung, a major should be assessed the point should be no good, regardless of how many people are left....

---------

Also, this isn't logical to me, so correct me if I am wrong.... NXL, my gun is hot, they put me in the box for a hot gun penalty, in the same point my team kills the penalty, I get to come out of the box with a hot gun?
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:42 PM #2
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The hot gun coming out of the box thing... The person that gets the penalty is not the one that serves it in the box. His live team mate is.
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:28 AM #3
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exactly^. The player with the hot gun is eliminated and goes off field to his pit, not to the box.

Yes, it can suck to lose the game on a swing point because of a penalty. But a penality is a penality, and it must be served somehow. Wether or not a ref catches it as it happens or one minute after it happens, time does not change the fact that a player cheated.

If losing a game to a swing point is such a concern, then that team needs to play some honest ball, and not cheat. If a player or team feels they need to cheat to win, that tells me they can't do it any other way. So why not give it to the other team? The odds are they would have won the point anyway.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:14 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exilict View Post
A team shouldn't be able to win a match on a penalty.
There is no other sport where this is acceptable.

Basketball - Can not end on a penalty - Free Throws are thrown after the clock expired.

Football - Can not end on a penalty - 1 final play is ran at 0:00

Hockey - Can not end on a penalty - Opposing team can not touch puck w/o causing a foul.

By Chris' own words, it means a lot more to cheat at the end of the game then it does at the beginning of the game. Its crappy that "When" a ref finds out that a team is cheating, can drastically effect the entire game, and it shouldn't.

The 5th / 7th / 9th point should be won clean, if after the flag is hung, a major should be assessed the point should be no good, regardless of how many people are left....

---------

Also, this isn't logical to me, so correct me if I am wrong.... NXL, my gun is hot, they put me in the box for a hot gun penalty, in the same point my team kills the penalty, I get to come out of the box with a hot gun?

The MAJOR flaw I see in your proposal is this:

If the score is oh say; 4:4 and its D3 Xball and you have 2 minutes left in the game to score a point and win, if it looks like your team is about to lose the point, ie, and the game, why not just cheat so the judges can assess a penalty and nullify the point that the other team possbily just won, and then restart another point with a fresh 5 players??

Its fine the way it is.

You cheat=You lose

Best format ever!!!!
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:03 AM #5
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No no no no....

1st Im not talking about swing points.

2nd. Say for example, its 4-4 with 8 minutes left. Someone takes off from the corner, runs down the field shoots everyone. The game ends with 5 alive. Then, when they check that players gun its illegal.

*IF* the reff could of checked it during the game, he would of pulled their snake player, as well as the temple behind the snake (closest player to the penalty) this DRASTICALLY changes the outcome of the last point.

However, as the rules sit, it is ok to cheat on the last point with illegal guns as long as you finish the match with 3 people..

-Chris
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:14 AM #6
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I brought this same thing up with Tim at Chicago actually. It doesn't make sense that in a race-to format that you can commit a major, hang the flag, and win the match, any more than it makes sense that you can commit a major with 30 seconds left and win the match. Because the team wins the match with that point, they never actually end up serving the penalty. It's an issue that was brought in by the race-to format that it doesn't seem was considered. He seemed receptive.

I would imagine that once the major was called on a team one point away from winning, the team receiving the major would no longer be able to win a point on that game, and the opposing team could either play it to completion and win the point, or throw the flag (or lose) the point and the game would be a no-point.

As for hot guns, the NXL puts the player receiving the penalty in the box to make it easier to track who is getting penalties. Solution to that is probably either to allow staff to bring them a new gun or have a spare gun in the box. But, it really rarely matters - it's not often that a player goes into and can come out of the box in the same point. A penalty being assessed means there's at most 3 players left on the field for that team, and that point is not likely to last another 60 seconds. The gun then gets switched out during the timeout.

- Chris
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:37 AM #7
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Chris,
Im glad you see the logic behind my post. I really hope the PSP steps up and makes the changes. This is exactaly what happened to us, and the reff's did a great job explaining it, however the rules just don't seem fair that the cheating team can win.

Thanks
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:07 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exilict View Post
No no no no....

1st Im not talking about swing points.

2nd. Say for example, its 4-4 with 8 minutes left. Someone takes off from the corner, runs down the field shoots everyone. The game ends with 5 alive. Then, when they check that players gun its illegal.

*IF* the reff could of checked it during the game, he would of pulled their snake player, as well as the temple behind the snake (closest player to the penalty) this DRASTICALLY changes the outcome of the last point.

However, as the rules sit, it is ok to cheat on the last point with illegal guns as long as you finish the match with 3 people..

-Chris
Oh, I see what you're saying. Only for the winning team? Meaning you can't win the match point if it ends with your team being asssessed a penalty, but a team cant commit a penalty to keep another team from winning said point? Is that about right??

If so, that makes sense and I completely agree.



Another set of revised rules in the making........
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:02 PM #9
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An instance where putting the hot gun in the box in the nxl was the philly vs aftermath game. A after math player was pulled for a hot gun sent to the box then pulled again after the penalty exspired. This was SD's 3 penalty of the point and should have given philly the win but for some reason SD was allowed to get the hang, and the point. And im not 100% sure but I think that would have put philly in and aftermath or someone else out.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:02 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmosfearballer View Post
Oh, I see what you're saying. Only for the winning team? Meaning you can't win the match point if it ends with your team being asssessed a penalty, but a team cant commit a penalty to keep another team from winning said point? Is that about right??

If so, that makes sense and I completely agree.



Another set of revised rules in the making........
Exactly!

The winning team can not commit a penalty and win the match, thats all I am asking for.

-X
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Old 07-06-2008, 08:16 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
I brought this same thing up with Tim at Chicago actually. It doesn't make sense that in a race-to format that you can commit a major, hang the flag, and win the match, any more than it makes sense that you can commit a major with 30 seconds left and win the match. Because the team wins the match with that point, they never actually end up serving the penalty. It's an issue that was brought in by the race-to format that it doesn't seem was considered. He seemed receptive.

I would imagine that once the major was called on a team one point away from winning, the team receiving the major would no longer be able to win a point on that game, and the opposing team could either play it to completion and win the point, or throw the flag (or lose) the point and the game would be a no-point.

As for hot guns, the NXL puts the player receiving the penalty in the box to make it easier to track who is getting penalties. Solution to that is probably either to allow staff to bring them a new gun or have a spare gun in the box. But, it really rarely matters - it's not often that a player goes into and can come out of the box in the same point. A penalty being assessed means there's at most 3 players left on the field for that team, and that point is not likely to last another 60 seconds. The gun then gets switched out during the timeout.

- Chris

Any words on a new change?

-X
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Old 07-06-2008, 08:35 PM #12
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Hah, I haven't even answered all my email from when I was at Chicago yet....

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Old 07-06-2008, 08:59 PM #13
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Quote:
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Hah, I haven't even answered all my email from when I was at Chicago yet....

- Chris
I got a "We are looking into it" or something like that...
I really think this one needs changed :-D

-X
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:23 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exilict View Post
A team shouldn't be able to win a match on a penalty.
There is no other sport where this is acceptable.

Basketball - Can not end on a penalty - Free Throws are thrown after the clock expired.
Regulation can end on an offensive penalty. A defensive foul on the floor issues normal number of free throws (0, 1 and 1, or 2 Pending Bounus).
A defensive shot foul that occurs on a "Buzzer Beater" which is defined as "ball in the air when buzzer sounds" shall be given 2 free throws, post regulation time.

Football - Can not end on a penalty - 1 final play is ran at 0:00
Can end on an offensive penalty, just not a defensive one.

Hockey - Can not end on a penalty - Opposing team can not touch puck w/o causing a foul.
Can end with a delayed call pending. Penalty is accessed on the score sheet at the conclusion of regulation time. Play can also end with one or more players in either box.

By Chris' own words, it means a lot more to cheat at the end of the game then it does at the beginning of the game. Its crappy that "When" a ref finds out that a team is cheating, can drastically effect the entire game, and it shouldn't.

The 5th / 7th / 9th point should be won clean, if after the flag is hung, a major should be assessed the point should be no good, regardless of how many people are left....

---------


Also, this isn't logical to me, so correct me if I am wrong.... NXL, my gun is hot, they put me in the box for a hot gun penalty, in the same point my team kills the penalty, I get to come out of the box with a hot gun?
But this happend at WC07. Kid went on the field with a gun shooting 23.4bps. Shot 4 guys and then got a -50 pt penalty. That lost game cost the team i was watching from moving on. Kinda a sad thing basically if you cant move on you can cheat like hell and ruin other teams. In all honesty that team would have never won if they didnt have 23.4 bps off the break mow 3 guys down, then shoot a 4th. THe kid was laughing about it afterwards, i think a suspension should have been issued.

Last edited by mas19 : 07-06-2008 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:53 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mas19 View Post
But this happend at WC07. Kid went on the field with a gun shooting 23.4bps. Shot 4 guys and then got a -50 pt penalty. That lost game cost the team i was watching from moving on. Kinda a sad thing basically if you cant move on you can cheat like hell and ruin other teams. In all honesty that team would have never won if they didnt have 23.4 bps off the break mow 3 guys down, then shoot a 4th. THe kid was laughing about it afterwards, i think a suspension should have been issued.
In a little bit of defense, at the last event I played one of the guys egos was shooting 23 or 24, something ridiculous like that. It was set at PSP ramp, it had a 15 bps cap (cxbl/mxl), and at the time we had no idea why it was doing this. Of course... we're not quite that stupid, we didn't let him walk on the field. But just saying that it COULD happen by accident. It probably wasn't an accident, but it could have been.

edit: And yeah, why didn't that kid get a fine/suspension? if he didn't...
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Last edited by HennY : 07-06-2008 at 10:56 PM. Reason: forgot to add my final Q yo
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:54 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mas19 View Post
But this happend at WC07. Kid went on the field with a gun shooting 23.4bps. Shot 4 guys and then got a -50 pt penalty. That lost game cost the team i was watching from moving on. Kinda a sad thing basically if you cant move on you can cheat like hell and ruin other teams. In all honesty that team would have never won if they didnt have 23.4 bps off the break mow 3 guys down, then shoot a 4th. THe kid was laughing about it afterwards, i think a suspension should have been issued.

Ya ya.. but the FIRST sentence was "You shouldn't be able to WIN with a penalty" That applies the whole way though the post...
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:37 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mas19 View Post
But this happend at WC07. Kid went on the field with a gun shooting 23.4bps. Shot 4 guys and then got a -50 pt penalty. That lost game cost the team i was watching from moving on. Kinda a sad thing basically if you cant move on you can cheat like hell and ruin other teams. In all honesty that team would have never won if they didnt have 23.4 bps off the break mow 3 guys down, then shoot a 4th. THe kid was laughing about it afterwards, i think a suspension should have been issued.
thats kind of pathetic that a ref couldnt catch a gun shooting 1 1/2 times the legal limit(in 07) and allowed the player to play for that long.
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Old 08-16-2008, 10:35 AM #18
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I have to ask that this is re-visited. As it happened to us Twice at NEO, and I watched it happen 4-5 other times. Teams have now keyed in on this... Even when it was 3-4, 2-4 the team with 4 getting majors knowing they can get away with it an win...

This rule should really be revisited...

Chris
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:05 PM #19
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After trying to understand what you were talking about your last post ^ explains it. So your saying if the team is about to win they will cheat because if they have enough players left they will automatically win even though they recieved a penalty. There should be a change in the rules regarding that!
Good thread hope it makes a change.
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:11 PM #20
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You guys are all insane.


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Old 08-16-2008, 04:11 PM #21
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I'm a bit lost in this arguement
doesn't a penalty in the last 90 seconds of the match give the opposing team the point?
Or is that only in cxbl/axbl?
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