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Old 07-14-2008, 11:06 AM #64
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There are many factors that can have a major effect on this. The way you are holding your gun on the crono can effect the reading. Also humidity is a major factor. If you play here in FL after a rain storm..You will be hard pressed to get +/- 8. Also paint to barrel match can make a big diff.

Example:
Played last week after rain and 100% humidity. Shot +/_ 10. Next week sunndy day..Same paint same gun +/- 2. Gun used 07 ego.
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Old 07-15-2008, 12:12 AM #65
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Dude my dark ego was getting +/- 4 with marballizer yesterday. Your arguement is invalid.
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:04 AM #66
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Generally at a normal field you would see at best a +/- 4 but it all depends on the paint and barrel you are using. In nppl i see +/- 2 alot because thier markers are tuned for high end paint which is much more consitant in shape, size and weight along with no dimples.
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:45 AM #67
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Dude my dark ego was getting +/- 4 with marballizer yesterday. Your arguement is invalid.
please read before you post - how many shots did you chrono? - and can you please post the shot velocities?
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:03 PM #68
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Dude my dark ego was getting +/- 4 with marballizer yesterday. Your arguement is invalid.
i think the "dude" says it all about this post.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:58 PM #69
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Well, on our ballistic computer chrono, I have seen several shots on the same reading

Radar chronographs are quite accurate. It also depends on what kind of chrono you use as well. Chronographs that use sunlight tend to be less accurate. Then there are other chronogprahs as well. All I know is ours has a computer hooked up to it... yaddah yaddah yaddah... And it is a lot more precise that the red radar ones.

interesting reading as well
http://www.eece.maine.edu/~sturner/chrono.pdf
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:00 PM #70
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Radar chronographs are quite accurate. It also depends on what kind of chrono you use as well. Chronographs that use sunlight tend to be less accurate.

RadarChron claims to be "normally within %1" (about half way down linked page)
http://www.paintballradar.com/

The manufacturer of the brand CP and I have been using claims %99.5
http://www.shootingchrony.com/

either one of these is totally fine for our use - worst case (as I've stated before) is +/- 1.5 fps @ 300.
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:16 AM #71
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interesting... learn something new everyday.
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:55 AM #72
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Dam i saw sean responded to this and i almost **** myself. I thought he would have put out a new vibe video of some1 at all american shooting a whole hopper at 300 fps on a rigged chrono. (or that he might have gotten lucky or just shut me up and pulled a +/- on a vibe shooting over any chrono).

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heres the real question.

how do you define your +/- confidence interval?

if i use a 99% model, then my gun need to shoot less than +/- 1 for a string 2- or 30 shots to get a +/- 5 FPS rating.

if you use a 95% model then you need to shoot +/- 2.2 for a 20 shot string to get +/- 5 FPS rating.



since most poeple take 3 shots over the chrono and they range in the +/- 5 range, they say there gun is shooting +/- 5, when in reality we can see that there gun is acutally shooting (according to the 99% model), like +/- 30 FPS.

if you truly want to know what you gun shoots as far as consistency, you need to blast though AT LEAST a couple hundred over the chrono, recording every shot.

as i have done here with the impressive beast of a gun, the EMag - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpUTWDY5NFE

if you look at the spread sheet, you can see that even though the std div of some of the setups were 1.8 FPS that still only means the gun was shooting +/- 5 FPS, and thats with strings of 20ish shots, where everyone but 2 shots were 291 fps.

that gun is a machine, and i have NEVER seen another gun even come close to that as far as chrono consistency.

so guys, it matter of how you define your +/- 5 FPS claims. if you take 3 shots and they are +/-5 that doesn't mean your gun is +/- 5, its more like +/- 30 FPS. whereas if you spend an hour over the chrono and take a few more samples, then your confendince interval gets a bit more accurate.

but according to the definition around here, my Emag was shooting +/- 0 FPS, but anyone with any sense at all would just shake there head.

the mythical +/- 5 FPS gun (according to any REAL model) is truly rare indeed. me and bryce have spent over 8 hours now with eveyr gun you can think of, over a chrono and NONE of them could shoot +/- 5 even with the EMag blasting 10-20 shoots IN A ROW all the same speed. thats still not +/- 5 FPS.
eh thats a hard one. but the way i define it is whatever you say +- you add to in each direction if your shooting over 280 and thats what your shooting. for example if im saying plus or minus 10 (+/- 10). acceptable values would be from 288-300 with no outliers! as in you take that gun shoot it as many times as you want on the chrono, (ok dont rip on it just single shots because you might be shooting a ****ty shocker or something with shootdown so that shouldnt count) and no matter what the values arnt out of that range.
(i mean sure if you say average +/- 10 thats fine based on your readings) but the way the average HK 1337saucepbnationer describes their guns, is as if every shot in a +-4 gun would shoot 300 302 299 300 301 299 301 301... as if it was "freshly teched" by sean@smartparts.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:23 PM #73
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Quote:
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Dam i saw sean responded to this and i almost **** myself. I thought he would have put out a new vibe video of some1 at all american shooting a whole hopper at 300 fps on a rigged chrono. (or that he might have gotten lucky or just shut me up and pulled a +/- on a vibe shooting over any chrono).


eh thats a hard one. but the way i define it is whatever you say +- you add to in each direction if your shooting over 280 and thats what your shooting. for example if im saying plus or minus 10 (+/- 10). acceptable values would be from 288-300 with no outliers! as in you take that gun shoot it as many times as you want on the chrono, (ok dont rip on it just single shots because you might be shooting a ****ty shocker or something with shootdown so that shouldnt count) and no matter what the values arnt out of that range.
(i mean sure if you say average +/- 10 thats fine based on your readings) but the way the average HK 1337saucepbnationer describes their guns, is as if every shot in a +-4 gun would shoot 300 302 299 300 301 299 301 301... as if it was "freshly teched" by sean@smartparts.
well, statsistically there is no such thing as "no outliers"

there is the normal curve, which assumptotes off very close to zero.

to get "no outliers" you need bascially an infinte improablity (drive ... err, anyone?). or you need to define your interval on something like 99.9999%

that would make the chances of an outlier very very very very very small.

to me, 99% is enough, and 95% is probably good. think of this in terms of shoots per case out of the interval - 99% is gonna be 20 shots per case outside the range, 95% is like 100 shots per case out of the range.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:29 PM #74
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i chrono'd my friends etek at 290 4 times in a row, and the chrono was not broken
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:30 PM #75
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try to annunciate a little bit better next time
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:55 PM #76
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e·nun·ci·ate Audio Help /ɪˈnʌnsiˌeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[i-nuhn-see-eyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -at·ed, -at·ing.
–verb (used with object) 1. to utter or pronounce (words, sentences, etc.), esp. in an articulate or a particular manner: He enunciates his words distinctly.
2. to state or declare definitely, as a theory.
3. to announce or proclaim: to enunciate one's intentions.
–verb (used without object) 4. to pronounce words, esp. in an articulate or a particular manner.

The spelling police is here....
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:26 PM #77
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i think the "dude" says it all about this post.
Judging people by four letter slang words they use on a forum? That's just a teeny bit pretentious, don't you think?

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infinte improablity (drive ... err, anyone?).
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:52 PM #78
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who the hell revived this thread????
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:12 PM #79
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i chrono'd my friends etek at 290 4 times in a row, and the chrono was not broken
so?

have you read any of this thread?
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:24 PM #80
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so?

have you read any of this thread?
Obviously not.
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:00 PM #81
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i chrono'd my friends etek at 290 4 times in a row, and the chrono was not broken


yeah, well I chrono'd [sic] ONE time and my gun shot exactly 293!

Impressive isn't it?

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:53 PM #82
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I dont know it would make sence for all the markers i have had, ion, pmr, infamous timmy, vice, 07 ego, all broken in never got better than +/- 8 bps using the best paint, and tuned up. I have used the big red cronos, hand held ones and a standard non paintball specific crono.
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:18 PM #83
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I dont know it would make sence for all the markers i have had, ion, pmr, infamous timmy, vice, 07 ego, all broken in never got better than +/- 8 bps using the best paint, and tuned up. I have used the big red cronos, hand held ones and a standard non paintball specific crono.

This is the reality that CP and I have come to. His emag got ridiculously good consistency - but only with extreme underboring - too much to be useful in a game situation. Especially with overboring as people tend to do - you're really never going to get to the mythical +/- 2-4 fps that people commonly claim.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:26 AM #84
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I got +/- 1 fps once. It was epic. Hasn't happened again. It sticks around +/- 3. Spikes happen though.

This is on a Sniper for clarification.
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