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Old 07-14-2008, 10:51 AM #127
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Definitely some major reffing issues, and playing on the same 3-man field that was used saturday wasn't too fantastic either. Our team had a good time for the most part but there are definitely some things that need worked out.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:20 PM #128
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They gave away nice prizes at the drawing, the paint shot great, grass was nice, and the free lunch wasn' t too bad but I would agree that the ref staffs effort was almost a disgrace to paintball. The head ref yelling from outside the net, refs calling players dead with hand signals and then clean and, a captain trying to bring up a concern in the 2ND captains meeting getting replied with "do you want a hug" isn't a great showing for any field imo.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:28 PM #129
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I kind of agree with the reffing situation. There were a lot of rough calls but thats part of it. They had a couple that were just plain lazy refs though and thats what got me. I'm not one to complain about refs, but I did get really irrated a few times. There was a time when I was flat out shooting at a guy and both the refs on the side weren't even paying attention. They where both watching the center. I had a few that I think ended up bouncing off of him because I know they were in line of hitting him, and they never even would of known. I had to scream at one of them to pay attention and check that guy. They said they were sorry and all, but that guy could of easily wiped the paint. He was a good guy and I don't think he would, but there were a few cheaters there that would of if they had the chance. For the most part, they did a good job and had some tough calls to make a few times, but they had a few bad apples in the group.
The field layout was fun with the car wash in the center. That was something different that I think most teams really enjoyed. The grass was awesome. You could slide on that stuff forever. I slammed into the bunkers a few times thinking I wouldn't slide as far as I did. Overall, it was a pretty decent event I thought.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:45 PM #130
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Originally Posted by s_bg_red View Post
They gave away nice prizes at the drawing, the paint shot great, grass was nice, and the free lunch wasn' t too bad but I would agree that the ref staffs effort was almost a disgrace to paintball. The head ref yelling from outside the net, refs calling players dead with hand signals and then clean and, a captain trying to bring up a concern in the 2ND captains meeting getting replied with "do you want a hug" isn't a great showing for any field imo.
I was the head ref on sunday and was on the field at all times. The person outside the net was the ultimate. I know that I made all calls to the best of my ability, and I trusted that others would do the same. You all know that bad calls happen, and as a player I fully understand the frustration that comes with them. I am sorry if it didn't go your way last weekend, questionable calls are unfortunately part of the game. See you in Harrisonville.
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:27 PM #131
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I think we all know that bad calls happen. Thats part of it. There were a couple of reffs that went all out and did a great job. They were running in checking players and getting the crap shot of of them. They were doing it all in hotter than hell weather and for the most part did a good job. They just had a few that were plain *** lazy and never wanted to leave there spot on the side lines. I even saw once when a player from a different team on the side lines yelled out at the ref to go check a guy and the ref went and did it and called the player on the field out. That shouldn't of happened. That was discussed in the captians meeting. I saw dead players talking to live players from the dead box without the ref saying anything. They were forgetting to penalized teams with live players with hits on them at the end of a match. I don't think any of it ruined an event but its just something that needs worked out on before your guy's next tournament or any of the rest of the MPS event. I think you guys have a great place and I loved playing there, but it can be a great event with a couple of things fixed.

There's always going to be complaining about the refs. Thats in every sport. It sucks that players aren't honest enough to call them selves out when they are out or try lying to the refs about how a play went down. There are a couple of players that are just ***** and shouldn't be allowed to play anymore. Thats in all the levels, but thats whats going to happen when there is a lot of money involved. Like I said before. It was a pretty good event and the reffing wasn't as bad as a few teams are going to say. A game should never be determined by a reffs call. I hate when a team *****es they lost the game because of a bad call. There is always something different that a team could of done for the game to go in there favor.
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:11 PM #132
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Hey players.

I’m sorry that some of you guys feel the way you do. I’m not going to say that the reffing went perfectly without any hiccups because it didn’t. I too saw some things over the weekend that were not up to par from a few of the reffs. Like said a couple times, a majority of the reffs were good and did a great job.

On the flip side of things… questionable calls from the reffs do not give some players the right to do some of the things they did over the weekend…. Such as throw your gun, yell at player’s wife’s and children in the staging area, flipping spectators off, etc. Had I seen some of these things and not just heard about them, you players would have been kicked out of the event and never allowed to play a MPS event again!

To answer the player’s question on how come I don’t have a full time reffing crew that travels to all the events. This idea was considered the first year of the MPS but was shot down after discussing the idea with several host fields at the time. This idea opens up so many other problems that out-weigh the positives. I’m not going into those problems, just understand that it was considered in the past.

I think one of the major things that is occurring is that some (not all) of the reffs at some of the events (not just the Choctaw event) are not reading and/or fully understanding the rule book before the event like they are asked to do (again, this isn’t the case for everyone… just a few of the reffs). When you take the lack of knowledge from not reading and/or understanding the rules, mixed with in-experience, mixed with a few other characteristics such as tiredness (or laziness if that is what you want to call it ), distractions, etc., then it turns into problems such has what occurred on Sunday. I’ve been thinking about it and I’m going to TRY and make a DVD that will help out both the reffs AND the players understand the rule book a little better. Once complete, I will somehow make them available to people who want them and require reffs to watch them before an event. Hopefully this will educate both players and reffs on what the rule book says about certain situations that will hopefully improve things as the series continues. This DVD will not be done any time soon…. It probably won’t be till next year.

In the mean time…. Let’s just keep on keeping on and look forward to the next event. Thanks to all the players that did come out and had a good time!

Dan
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:33 PM #133
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We had a great time playing. (placing second helps) We always do getting to play in a MPS tournament. They are all well run and they're worth it with the 5 hour or more hour drives we have to make for most of them. Hank, the owner was an awesome guy and really went the extra distance to make us happy. It was hotter than hell and that caused a lot of temper problems. Your right though Dan, there isn't really any need for players to get pissed like that and throw stuff, or cuse people out. Everyone gets a chance at a horrible call. Sometimes its in an unimportant game, others its when its a game to get into the finals or whatever. We had a few that almost kept us out of the finals. We had a player get hit and the ref called him out when it never even broke. He just got hit and with how humid it was getting it was making the paint bounce really bad. He never argued about it and I'm glad he didn't. It sucks, but there wasn't a reason for him to go nuts over it and say we lost because of it. I shouldn't of gotten out the way I did. Agian, 90% of the refs were good. There were a couple though that were making them look bad. I think the reffing video is a great idea. Just hope that most of them are mature enough to actually watch it and not blow it off. I saw a while back somewhere that Reagon made her refs take a test on the rules. I think that was a great idea. The refs at the second event seemed to really know the rules. Even the tiny little ones that no one remembers. There's an idea for ya Dan.
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:47 PM #134
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Reagan made them take a test on the rules?!?!?! That is awesome and a great idea!
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:52 PM #135
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Dan, thanks for your efforts with the series and putting up with all the crap that goes along with it. Hank had a great attitude and you could tell his desire to have players enjoy themselves. It was a fun event even though we didn't play as well as we expected ourselves to do.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:14 PM #136
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I was the head ref on sunday and was on the field at all times. The person outside the net was the ultimate. I know that I made all calls to the best of my ability, and I trusted that others would do the same. You all know that bad calls happen, and as a player I fully understand the frustration that comes with them. I am sorry if it didn't go your way last weekend, questionable calls are unfortunately part of the game. See you in Harrisonville.
There was no doubt that you or any of your refs were making calls to the best of their ability, however that best was not good enough for a series like the mps. As much as it seemed like you wanted to be there, I believe that a lot of the ref's lacked tournament reffing experience, or at least GOOD tournament reffing experience. I can honestly say our complaints do not stem from our poor performance at the tournament, they come from what we expect from a ref regardless of if we are winning games. This expectations include those that we put within ourselves. As a ref, it is required of you to go in there and get shot, make hand signals, being aware of the situation, and watch your player not the game. All of these things were not being successfully accomplished by the staff at this event.

Since complaints without suggestions are pointless, I suggest a MPS clinic prior to the yearly run of events. That way each reffing staff from each field can become aware of the rules of the event, what is required of them as a ref and a representative of their field. This is because not only does a bad set of ref's make the field look bad, it also has a negative effect on the series as a whole which can cause poor customer satisfaction.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:35 PM #137
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There was no doubt that you or any of your refs were making calls to the best of their ability, however that best was not good enough for a series like the mps. As much as it seemed like you wanted to be there, I believe that a lot of the ref's lacked tournament reffing experience, or at least GOOD tournament reffing experience. I can honestly say our complaints do not stem from our poor performance at the tournament, they come from what we expect from a ref regardless of if we are winning games. This expectations include those that we put within ourselves. As a ref, it is required of you to go in there and get shot, make hand signals, being aware of the situation, and watch your player not the game. All of these things were not being successfully accomplished by the staff at this event.

Since complaints without suggestions are pointless, I suggest a MPS clinic prior to the yearly run of events. That way each reffing staff from each field can become aware of the rules of the event, what is required of them as a ref and a representative of their field. This is because not only does a bad set of ref's make the field look bad, it also has a negative effect on the series as a whole which can cause poor customer satisfaction.
great


i agree
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:20 PM #138
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Most of the refs were great. The guy with the OU gear on the L3 field made good calls and it was cool to see Aaron(sp?) again. Had one really bad call when I slid into the crackpipe, told the ref I knelt on some paint, and he came over and said I was gone. Wouldn't have bothered me except for nobody was even shooting at me. Oh well, it happens. Great tournament overall. Thanks to Dan, Mark, and Hank for another great event. We always have fun at MPS tournaments. Good job to EA BA and all the other teams.
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Old 07-14-2008, 09:40 PM #139
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i had a great time reffing the event.
some players gave us un needed bull****.
but thats to be expected. overall i give it a two thumbs up
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Old 07-14-2008, 09:52 PM #140
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I was the head ref on sunday and was on the field at all times. The person outside the net was the ultimate. I know that I made all calls to the best of my ability, and I trusted that others would do the same. You all know that bad calls happen, and as a player I fully understand the frustration that comes with them. I am sorry if it didn't go your way last weekend, questionable calls are unfortunately part of the game. See you in Harrisonville.
You personally did a great job, I saw you sprinting around the field with your clipboard making calls and trying to pick up the slack. It just sucks that you constantly had to run across the field to make a call that the ref standing right next to the player should have been making.

The one kid who was laying out on the field hurt after being blasted in the back of the head at point blank range while he was walking to the deadbox (reminiscent of the "lasoya incident") only went noticed by one ref for about 5 minutes until our team went and got some other people over there. We had a combat medic on our team who said that the kid was showing signs of a concussion.

Not all of the refs did a bad job, but even one or two poor refs during an event can set off a bunch of "THE REFS SUXXORED!!!1!" type comments. The ultimate ref did a good job of telling the refs on his side of the field how to adjust their technique etc. There definitely seemed to be a lack of experience with some of the refs though.
But to the players, no-matter how bad the reffing is, it's no excuse to throw a temper tantrum on the field. Knocking a bunker over onto it's side and spiking your marker really isn't exactly the best way to get your point across and definitely doesn't make you look very mature.

Did anyone get video of team BSC's insane runthrough during the last game of L2 finals?
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Old 07-14-2008, 09:59 PM #141
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yes it was video'd.
i think the bsc guys should have it up later
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:23 PM #142
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You personally did a great job, I saw you sprinting around the field with your clipboard making calls and trying to pick up the slack. It just sucks that you constantly had to run across the field to make a call that the ref standing right next to the player should have been making.


Thank you, but often the hits I could see cross field were at angles which other judges were unable to see.

I agree that an instructional DVD is a good idea, as well as a clinic going over all rules for the event for future events.

Myself, I thought the event was a good one and thank you to the teams that showed up.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:57 PM #143
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Just want to start by saying over all the tournament was awesome. As usual was another great event. Thanks to Dan, Hank, and all the guys from KEE for everyting they did to put on a great event.

As for the reffing... it takes time to become good refs and over all you guys did a great job. There were some questionable calls.."not bad calls." Everyone complaining... The way I see it, you need to talk to Dan and see about reffing a event and see how that event goes.

Next, did anyone get pictures or video of the last L2 game where the guy did the somersalt and lost his mask??
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:59 PM #144
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I thought that there wasnt anything wrong with the layout. The reffing was terrible. If you think that you saw a player get hit, don't army crawl all the way to them to check them. Get up run in there and check them. You’re a ref your going to get shot, it happens. I saw one ref actually run off the field cause he was getting shot at. Was sorta funny till I actually thought about it. If your scared to get shot then go home. The amount of time that it took for a ref to check a player was insane. And what was up with the guy who was the ultimate calling people out from the sidelines. I have never seen that. An ultimate is supposed to just know the rules incase the head ref on the field has a dispute. He’s not there to pull people from outside the nets, then tell them to get out or he will pull another. There’s a reason why no other league anywhere does this. Its not right.

One thing that I didn’t understand that happened to us. The game came down to a 1vs.1. It looked like my player got hit on the loader. He asked for a check and a ref came in and checked him, and called him CLEAN. Then my player shot the other guy and ran in the flag. When my player was being checked at the end of the game the ref saw the hit on top of his loader. Im not arguing that it was a hit, because clearly it was. My player told him that he was called clean by a ref during the game. They call that ref over and he said that he did call the player clean. Then we were told that we were getting a 25 point penalty for playing on with an unobvious hit. And the pull and hang will go toward the other team. I understand the pull and the hang going toward the other team. But why do we get penalized for bad reffing? Doesn’t make any sense to me.

Had one ref pull me during a game when I ran up the field to the mini x next to the spike and shot out spike and one of the doritos. He pulled me and told he I was hit. I didn’t argue with him, I just turned around and walked off of the field. Getting to the box I asked one of my players who was already in the box if I had a hit anywhere on me, he said that he didn’t see one. So after the game I walked up to the ref and asked him nicely where did I get hit. He said “You were hit before you shot out the spike.” I said “ok but where? I don’t have a hit on me.” Still I wasn’t given a straight answer. So I walked off of the field. I don’t care about getting pulled. My team still pulled off the game. What concerned me more was if I was hit but still before a ref pulled me I shot 2 more players and was then pulled. Why wasn’t there a penalty pulled on me. I don’t know what the exact rules are in the MPS but if it would of been one of my tourney that’s a 3 for 1. That would of made us lose the game and the other team would of won. This makes me wonder, how many times did that happen trough out the day? How many teams who didn’t win should of because a player played on. Result of bad reffing.

The bigger problem that I see is that the MPS is the only series besides the Karnage 7man series that is in this area. And because of the bad reffing at the MPS, it makes some teams not want to play in it. If there are less teams then the series will die. I don’t want that, we need more events in the 4 state area. There are a lot of teams in the area and if events start to lose teams and fields don’t make any money were going to see our sport die off in the area, and fields close. I know none of you want that.

I saw that some of you are mentioning to have all the refs watch a dvd on reffing or take a test on the rules. These are good suggestions. But still I don’t think that it is going to solve the problem. Teams with experience reffing will help it, and guys who know what they are doing. Example: You cant take a L4 team with hardly any experience and expect them to ref decent for 2 days.
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:07 PM #145
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Tim, I agree with you on not expecting someone who has no reffing experience to be a good ref for two days. At the same time though if we don't let these guys ref they will never learn. I am very greatful to have the MPS because the tourny scene in Arkansas in almost nothing and our team will continue to travel like a lot of other teams to play in a good tournament series. I would like to see one of the fields possibly put on a reffing clinic to help teach younger and newer players learn how to ref and what is required.
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:34 PM #146
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I agree, we do need to give the guys without experience a way to learn. A way to do that I think is to put them on the field with someone who does have the exsperience in reffing. Thats how I do it. Ive been taking one new kid at a time and putting them with me durring a tourney while I head ref. That way they learn by actually doing. It takes a while but they get it.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:26 PM #147
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I thought that there wasnt anything wrong with the layout. The reffing was terrible. If you think that you saw a player get hit, don't army crawl all the way to them to check them. Get up run in there and check them. You’re a ref your going to get shot, it happens. I saw one ref actually run off the field cause he was getting shot at. Was sorta funny till I actually thought about it. If your scared to get shot then go home. The amount of time that it took for a ref to check a player was insane. And what was up with the guy who was the ultimate calling people out from the sidelines. I have never seen that. An ultimate is supposed to just know the rules incase the head ref on the field has a dispute. He’s not there to pull people from outside the nets, then tell them to get out or he will pull another. There’s a reason why no other league anywhere does this. Its not right.

One thing that I didn’t understand that happened to us. The game came down to a 1vs.1. It looked like my player got hit on the loader. He asked for a check and a ref came in and checked him, and called him CLEAN. Then my player shot the other guy and ran in the flag. When my player was being checked at the end of the game the ref saw the hit on top of his loader. Im not arguing that it was a hit, because clearly it was. My player told him that he was called clean by a ref during the game. They call that ref over and he said that he did call the player clean. Then we were told that we were getting a 25 point penalty for playing on with an unobvious hit. And the pull and hang will go toward the other team. I understand the pull and the hang going toward the other team. But why do we get penalized for bad reffing? Doesn’t make any sense to me.

Had one ref pull me during a game when I ran up the field to the mini x next to the spike and shot out spike and one of the doritos. He pulled me and told he I was hit. I didn’t argue with him, I just turned around and walked off of the field. Getting to the box I asked one of my players who was already in the box if I had a hit anywhere on me, he said that he didn’t see one. So after the game I walked up to the ref and asked him nicely where did I get hit. He said “You were hit before you shot out the spike.” I said “ok but where? I don’t have a hit on me.” Still I wasn’t given a straight answer. So I walked off of the field. I don’t care about getting pulled. My team still pulled off the game. What concerned me more was if I was hit but still before a ref pulled me I shot 2 more players and was then pulled. Why wasn’t there a penalty pulled on me. I don’t know what the exact rules are in the MPS but if it would of been one of my tourney that’s a 3 for 1. That would of made us lose the game and the other team would of won. This makes me wonder, how many times did that happen trough out the day? How many teams who didn’t win should of because a player played on. Result of bad reffing.

The bigger problem that I see is that the MPS is the only series besides the Karnage 7man series that is in this area. And because of the bad reffing at the MPS, it makes some teams not want to play in it. If there are less teams then the series will die. I don’t want that, we need more events in the 4 state area. There are a lot of teams in the area and if events start to lose teams and fields don’t make any money were going to see our sport die off in the area, and fields close. I know none of you want that.

I saw that some of you are mentioning to have all the refs watch a dvd on reffing or take a test on the rules. These are good suggestions. But still I don’t think that it is going to solve the problem. Teams with experience reffing will help it, and guys who know what they are doing. Example: You cant take a L4 team with hardly any experience and expect them to ref decent for 2 days.
this pretty much sums it up. if you cant take a hit from a paintball as ref i'd hate to see you on the field playing. its just some paintballs guys. its not that painful.

i have never seen a ref call people out from the sidelines and i cannot believe the attitude of the ultimate. the 2nd captains meeting was a joke. the refs call the captains out and ask for any questions and when a captain brings up a totally valid point the ultimate give him an extremely unprofessional remark. how are you gonna hold a 2nd meeting about questions and concerns and totally act like the ONLY question brought up was worthless.

eric pine
ttown heros
#01
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Paintball24Seven is immature, a troll, and his pawnshop prices are laughable. Avoid business at all costs

"Originally posted by a_nxiety: screw ego's, everyone in the world shoots one. might as well sell them at hollister next to the pre-stained white hoodies and the jeans where knee's cost extra."
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