Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-13-2008, 05:14 PM #1
BOOGPRO
Masters World Champion
 
BOOGPRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: fla
BOOGPRO donated to help Peyton Trent
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends V
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VI
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VII
Ok Ill give you one to Discuss...if a player gets wiped off, pull a penalty

If you have a situation where you wipe a player clean ( remove hits) it is a automatic penelty for the other team be it a 1-1 , 2-1 , 1 min or 3 min penelty.For if you wipe a player clean you have determained the the player was shot illeagaly and are alowing him to continue.Far too many times i have seen a ref wipe a player down and not ***** a penelty.
__________________
BOOGIE OG 1982.
Original Member of FLA Annihilators, RAGE. Member of Lockout, Jax Warriors, Nemisis, Strange B, Cypress, Mickeys Rats,Legacy Masters, loaned to East Coast Eliminators N.Y., Palm Beach Predetors, Hounds of Hell N.Y.,CFP Masters and many more. Original P.R.O. , NXL Referee,PSP, NPPL, EXL, NCPA,CFPS,SPCS, Ultimate Madness, Areanaball, UK Referee . Draxxus All Stars '08 World Cup Masters Champion


R.I.P. Towlie & Odin


Yes i am the reason we have ID cards now sorry
BOOGPRO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 05-13-2008, 11:11 PM #2
danbob1088
succisa virescit
 
danbob1088's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
danbob1088 is a Paintball photographer
danbob1088 is an NCPA player
danbob1088 plays in the APPA D5 division
Well, that depends.

If it was practically a mutual but you felt that the player you are wiping down shot the other first, then I don't consider that a penalty. Something really close, you can't hold that against the player.

I agree it should be a penalty on someone in most situations.
__________________

flickr
danbob1088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 12:09 AM #3
TeamShellShock
Collect All 16!
 
TeamShellShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: U.S.A
TeamShellShock is a Supporting Member
TeamShellShock supports our troops
TeamShellShock is a Forum Captain
I think most snake situations don't call for a penalty, but other then that I would have to agree that we should be stricter on assessing a penalty.

Heres a good one- If a player is cleaning his barrel and shoots his squeegee, do you pull him?
TeamShellShock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 12:11 PM #4
Bonestock98 III
I'm gonna make love to ya
 
Bonestock98 III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: *513*
Bonestock98 III helped look for balloons
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamShellShock View Post
I think most snake situations don't call for a penalty, but other then that I would have to agree that we should be stricter on assessing a penalty.

Heres a good one- If a player is cleaning his barrel and shoots his squeegee, do you pull him?
If he shoots it no, if it is shot by someone else yes.
__________________
Black and Clear DM7 F/T want Egos
| Cabin Creek Paintball | DXS | Procaps |
Old Love|New Love +10/0/-0
OHIO 'ballers club member #21
"Originally posted by Rebeltilldeath3: Two outcomes; jail or gay. Both options end with a dick in his ***.
"
Bonestock98 III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 02:26 PM #5
BOOGPRO
Masters World Champion
 
BOOGPRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: fla
BOOGPRO donated to help Peyton Trent
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends V
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VI
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VII
Shell this is what i mean if you wipe a player off you have determained that he shot first!! and still is alive .There is no close thing either you pull both or pull one and wipe the other clean you have determain that a player has played on.There is no middle ground if you wipe a player off and pull no penelty you are only setting yourself up for a fall.
__________________
BOOGIE OG 1982.
Original Member of FLA Annihilators, RAGE. Member of Lockout, Jax Warriors, Nemisis, Strange B, Cypress, Mickeys Rats,Legacy Masters, loaned to East Coast Eliminators N.Y., Palm Beach Predetors, Hounds of Hell N.Y.,CFP Masters and many more. Original P.R.O. , NXL Referee,PSP, NPPL, EXL, NCPA,CFPS,SPCS, Ultimate Madness, Areanaball, UK Referee . Draxxus All Stars '08 World Cup Masters Champion


R.I.P. Towlie & Odin


Yes i am the reason we have ID cards now sorry
BOOGPRO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 03:31 PM #6
danbob1088
succisa virescit
 
danbob1088's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
danbob1088 is a Paintball photographer
danbob1088 is an NCPA player
danbob1088 plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOGPRO View Post
Shell this is what i mean if you wipe a player off you have determained that he shot first!! and still is alive .There is no close thing either you pull both or pull one and wipe the other clean you have determain that a player has played on.There is no middle ground if you wipe a player off and pull no penelty you are only setting yourself up for a fall.
I think a little interpretation is appropriate though. Especially in the snake, you have some situations where nobody was getting an advantage over the other. The point of the rule is to keep fair play; not needlessly enforce every technicality. How many times does someone get hit in an unobvious location or a very difficult location to tell (front of loader) in the snake making a very close move?

That, in some situations, does not warrant a penalty to me. Intent of the rule.
__________________

flickr
danbob1088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 04:39 PM #7
BOOGPRO
Masters World Champion
 
BOOGPRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: fla
BOOGPRO donated to help Peyton Trent
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends V
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VI
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VII
There is no interpretation if you wipe the player off you have determained he is clean and was shot illeagally thus creating a penelty for the other side.There is no close or to quik of a thing for when you wipe off the hits you are clearly without a doubt have determained the player was hit illeagally thus creating a penelty.There is no iterpetation unless you like arguing with team captains for there isnt one worth his salt that wont create a huge fuss over this/. Ive been there ive seen it i have even made the mistake of wiping a player off with no penelty it just isnt worth the hassel. IF YOU WIPE A PLAYER DOWN PULL THE PENELTY!!!! If you feel it was close then you throw a minor a 1-1 if you feel it was blatant the burn him at the cross. You do this and i garentee you with have few if any problems esspecially in the snake . Remeber put the fear of god into them imediatly and word will spread fast and youll have a much easier time in the snake.
__________________
BOOGIE OG 1982.
Original Member of FLA Annihilators, RAGE. Member of Lockout, Jax Warriors, Nemisis, Strange B, Cypress, Mickeys Rats,Legacy Masters, loaned to East Coast Eliminators N.Y., Palm Beach Predetors, Hounds of Hell N.Y.,CFP Masters and many more. Original P.R.O. , NXL Referee,PSP, NPPL, EXL, NCPA,CFPS,SPCS, Ultimate Madness, Areanaball, UK Referee . Draxxus All Stars '08 World Cup Masters Champion


R.I.P. Towlie & Odin


Yes i am the reason we have ID cards now sorry
BOOGPRO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 05:03 PM #8
l-Poder-l
-_-
 
l-Poder-l's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
l-Poder-l donated to help Peyton Trent
l-Poder-l helped look for balloons
l-Poder-l is playing at Living Legends III
l-Poder-l is reppin' sidebar 4 life
OK, let me put it this way, if player Ollie Lang ( ) is playing player Tomas Taylor, and lang gets up to stab Taylor, and and two steps before he gets there he gets shot in the chest and side by one of XSV's dorito players he isn't going to have enough time to check and see if he's hit before he stabs Taylor.

That is a situation where a ref desides that that lang was shot first, but it wasn't langs fault that he didn't get shot in the face where he could see it. So why should he get a 1 for 1 or greater for his team, if he was just doing his job, and breaking open the game.
__________________
.
l-Poder-l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 06:00 PM #9
BOOGPRO
Masters World Champion
 
BOOGPRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: fla
BOOGPRO donated to help Peyton Trent
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends V
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VI
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VII
Your kidding right??? If player A i dont care who he is runs to bunker a guy and 2 ft from him he gets one in a unobvios spot thats a 1-1 or a minor penelty.If hes shot in a obvious spot its a 2-1 or a major penelty.In the case stated above Player A is rolling the dice if they broke or not thus taking the risk of the penelty.

Also it is very important to remeber that a 1-1 or minor penelty is like holding in football. A 2-1 or major is like unnessasary roughness in football.As referees all we are doing is providing a level playing field so if we all get on the same page and start all pulling in the same direction this can only improve.

BTW this is good stuff keep it rolling
__________________
BOOGIE OG 1982.
Original Member of FLA Annihilators, RAGE. Member of Lockout, Jax Warriors, Nemisis, Strange B, Cypress, Mickeys Rats,Legacy Masters, loaned to East Coast Eliminators N.Y., Palm Beach Predetors, Hounds of Hell N.Y.,CFP Masters and many more. Original P.R.O. , NXL Referee,PSP, NPPL, EXL, NCPA,CFPS,SPCS, Ultimate Madness, Areanaball, UK Referee . Draxxus All Stars '08 World Cup Masters Champion


R.I.P. Towlie & Odin


Yes i am the reason we have ID cards now sorry

Last edited by BOOGPRO : 05-14-2008 at 06:13 PM.
BOOGPRO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 06:28 PM #10
danbob1088
succisa virescit
 
danbob1088's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
danbob1088 is a Paintball photographer
danbob1088 is an NCPA player
danbob1088 plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOGPRO View Post
There is no interpretation if you wipe the player off you have determained he is clean and was shot illeagally thus creating a penelty for the other side.There is no close or to quik of a thing for when you wipe off the hits you are clearly without a doubt have determained the player was hit illeagally thus creating a penelty.There is no iterpetation unless you like arguing with team captains for there isnt one worth his salt that wont create a huge fuss over this/. Ive been there ive seen it i have even made the mistake of wiping a player off with no penelty it just isnt worth the hassel. IF YOU WIPE A PLAYER DOWN PULL THE PENELTY!!!! If you feel it was close then you throw a minor a 1-1 if you feel it was blatant the burn him at the cross. You do this and i garentee you with have few if any problems esspecially in the snake . Remeber put the fear of god into them imediatly and word will spread fast and youll have a much easier time in the snake.
I've reffed for awhile and never had anyone question my call in the snake on one of these. That said, I do understand what you are saying.

How I've always been trained is intent of the rule. You can be a hardass about a lot of things, but sometimes there are moments where you make (or don't make) a ruling based on the situation. For instance, hit to the pack. Is it a 1v1, playing on? Not by the rules, unless you as a ref notice the player flinch or something of the sort. If that player makes it look like he knew he was hit....that unobvious hit just turned into a penalty. That can go for some "obvious" hits as well. The point is to make sure the game is fair. As long as that is accomplished, in my eyes I am doing my job correctly.
__________________

flickr
danbob1088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:49 PM #11
TeamShellShock
Collect All 16!
 
TeamShellShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: U.S.A
TeamShellShock is a Supporting Member
TeamShellShock supports our troops
TeamShellShock is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOGPRO View Post
Shell this is what i mean if you wipe a player off you have determained that he shot first!! and still is alive .There is no close thing either you pull both or pull one and wipe the other clean you have determain that a player has played on.There is no middle ground if you wipe a player off and pull no penelty you are only setting yourself up for a fall.
I disagree, Sure 90% of the time it is clear who got who first and a penalty is justified. However the 10% that are very close and in those situations where you make the decision to clean one player, is it justified to pull a penalty on the player who almost got the player at the same time?
TeamShellShock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 08:00 PM #12
danbob1088
succisa virescit
 
danbob1088's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
danbob1088 is a Paintball photographer
danbob1088 is an NCPA player
danbob1088 plays in the APPA D5 division
My point exactly. I think that is too close to be saying "you are making the game unfair" and pull the penalty.
__________________

flickr
danbob1088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 05:44 AM #13
BOOGPRO
Masters World Champion
 
BOOGPRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: fla
BOOGPRO donated to help Peyton Trent
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends V
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VI
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VII
Making the game unfair???? you have got to be kidding as long as you make the same call every time you are now consistant.I worked the snake for 3 years in the NXL and if you dont pull the penelty when you wipe a player off you get to spend the rest of the match explaining why.
Shell your missing the point if you wipe a player off YOU HAVE DETERMAINED he was shot illeagally and can continue to play so that is a penelty plain and simple.
I would like to thank you all for a great discuss and i hope you see the point i am trying to make here. I am happy to see some good input here and some fine individuals tyrin to make the sport better.Keep up the good work yall .
__________________
BOOGIE OG 1982.
Original Member of FLA Annihilators, RAGE. Member of Lockout, Jax Warriors, Nemisis, Strange B, Cypress, Mickeys Rats,Legacy Masters, loaned to East Coast Eliminators N.Y., Palm Beach Predetors, Hounds of Hell N.Y.,CFP Masters and many more. Original P.R.O. , NXL Referee,PSP, NPPL, EXL, NCPA,CFPS,SPCS, Ultimate Madness, Areanaball, UK Referee . Draxxus All Stars '08 World Cup Masters Champion


R.I.P. Towlie & Odin


Yes i am the reason we have ID cards now sorry
BOOGPRO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 08:16 AM #14
TeamShellShock
Collect All 16!
 
TeamShellShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: U.S.A
TeamShellShock is a Supporting Member
TeamShellShock supports our troops
TeamShellShock is a Forum Captain
I'm not missing the point, I just don't agree that 100% of the time the penalty must be assessed.

If a player was close to making a hit (or in his mind did eliminate the other player first) and then takes cover behind the nearest bunker and waits for your judgment. By definition it could be playing on sure, but is he doing it to gain an advantage?(outside of wanting to stay alive ) or making an aggressive movement?

If he isn't shooting or yelling I don't think its necessary to pull a penalty, now if he yells and points or shoots by all means I will ***** a penalty.
TeamShellShock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 06:03 PM #15
danbob1088
succisa virescit
 
danbob1088's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
danbob1088 is a Paintball photographer
danbob1088 is an NCPA player
danbob1088 plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamShellShock View Post
I'm not missing the point, I just don't agree that 100% of the time the penalty must be assessed.

If a player was close to making a hit (or in his mind did eliminate the other player first) and then takes cover behind the nearest bunker and waits for your judgment. By definition it could be playing on sure, but is he doing it to gain an advantage?(outside of wanting to stay alive ) or making an aggressive movement?

If he isn't shooting or yelling I don't think its necessary to pull a penalty, now if he yells and points or shoots by all means I will ***** a penalty.
Shellshock takes the words out of my hands, basically.

Our job as referees is to keep the game fair. If you determine that two people make a move at the same time, but one gets shot first in a very close move, how can you penalize that player? No advantage was given to one team at all because of this situation.

I am being consistent if I always stick with my criteria for pulling a penalty based on the information I am given in front of me.
__________________

flickr

Last edited by danbob1088 : 05-15-2008 at 06:05 PM.
danbob1088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 04:48 PM #16
CraigAL32
 
 
CraigAL32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bokeelia l FLORIDA
 has been a member for 10 years
CraigAL32 plays in the APPA beginner division
WOW Boog, good one.

Yea he threw that at me today at our field.

Ok first lets say this is an Xball match which puts us all on the same page.

Ok what Boog is saying is the only reason you would wipe a guy off is if you were sure he should not have been hit because someone else was at fault.

He is not going to wipe a player off otherwise, if it is too close to call then it does not happen.

He is saying he knows for a fact that he can wipe "A" player off because "B" player did something against the rules which would require some kind of penalty plain and simple.
You cannot wipe the player clean if you do not know for a fact that the situation that caused him to be hit was not done in an illegal manner. If you do determine it was done by an illegal move then of course it is penalty time.

Seems simple enough when taken down step by step.

Good one Mike B., keep em coming .
__________________
Paintball Player since 1984.

Owner of the Annihilators and one of the original founding players.
One of the founding players for Miami Rage 1994-1997
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Florid...s/377685150910
http://www.floridapaintballing.com
Boogie Fan #1
CraigAL32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:28 PM #17
TeamShellShock
Collect All 16!
 
TeamShellShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: U.S.A
TeamShellShock is a Supporting Member
TeamShellShock supports our troops
TeamShellShock is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigAL32 View Post
WOW Boog, good one.

Yea he threw that at me today at our field.

Ok first lets say this is an Xball match which puts us all on the same page.

Ok what Boog is saying is the only reason you would wipe a guy off is if you were sure he should not have been hit because someone else was at fault.

He is not going to wipe a player off otherwise, if it is too close to call then it does not happen.

He is saying he knows for a fact that he can wipe "A" player off because "B" player did something against the rules which would require some kind of penalty plain and simple.
You cannot wipe the player clean if you do not know for a fact that the situation that caused him to be hit was not done in an illegal manner. If you do determine it was done by an illegal move then of course it is penalty time.

Seems simple enough when taken down step by step.

Good one Mike B., keep em coming .
Sure its simple I'm not missing the point, but what I disagree with was the original post.

Quote:
If you have a situation where you wipe a player clean ( remove hits) it is a automatic penelty for the other team be it a 1-1 , 2-1 , 1 min or 3 min penelty.For if you wipe a player clean you have determained the the player was shot illeagaly and are alowing him to continue.
So lets look at it this way- Player A is running down the snake and is hit in the pack, and of course doesn't realize it. He continues going down and shoots Player B.

Now you as a ref know that Player A was hit in the pack before he got to Player B, But Player A did not break a rule (Back of the pack is not an obvious hit) and therefore does not deserve a penalty, even though you will wipe off player B.

Like I said 90-95% of the time a penalty is justified, but not 100% of the time.
TeamShellShock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 05:40 PM #18
danbob1088
succisa virescit
 
danbob1088's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
danbob1088 is a Paintball photographer
danbob1088 is an NCPA player
danbob1088 plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamShellShock View Post
Like I said 90-95% of the time a penalty is justified, but not 100% of the time.
Bingo.
__________________

flickr
danbob1088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 07:10 PM #19
BOOGPRO
Masters World Champion
 
BOOGPRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: fla
BOOGPRO donated to help Peyton Trent
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends V
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VI
BOOGPRO is playing at Living Legends VII
Umm Shell sorry Bud but what dose the word unobvious mean??? It means you dont know so its only a 1-1 penelty( for playing on with a unobvious hit ) not a 2-1 or a 3-1 ( for playing on with a obvious hit ). I know this seems hard to understand but ill repeat " If you wipe a player off YOU HAVE DETERMAINED he was hit illeagally and can continue to play. I cant believe you cant see the reasoning in this but after 26 years in this sport i take alot for granted.
__________________
BOOGIE OG 1982.
Original Member of FLA Annihilators, RAGE. Member of Lockout, Jax Warriors, Nemisis, Strange B, Cypress, Mickeys Rats,Legacy Masters, loaned to East Coast Eliminators N.Y., Palm Beach Predetors, Hounds of Hell N.Y.,CFP Masters and many more. Original P.R.O. , NXL Referee,PSP, NPPL, EXL, NCPA,CFPS,SPCS, Ultimate Madness, Areanaball, UK Referee . Draxxus All Stars '08 World Cup Masters Champion


R.I.P. Towlie & Odin


Yes i am the reason we have ID cards now sorry
BOOGPRO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 07:19 PM #20
danbob1088
succisa virescit
 
danbob1088's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
danbob1088 is a Paintball photographer
danbob1088 is an NCPA player
danbob1088 plays in the APPA D5 division
Since when is playing on with an unobvious hit a 1 - 1? Check the rulebook for NPPL, a 3 - 1 is wiping or firing after acknowledging elimination with intent to eliminate a player. A 2 - 1 is playing on and making a game altering move. A 1 - 1 is playing on with an obvious hit.

Find me the portion of that rule set that says an unobvious hit garners a penalty.

The rulebook actually defines penalties.

Shellshock is correct on his point.
__________________

flickr

Last edited by danbob1088 : 05-18-2008 at 07:53 PM.
danbob1088 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 07:29 PM #21
TeamShellShock
Collect All 16!
 
TeamShellShock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: U.S.A
TeamShellShock is a Supporting Member
TeamShellShock supports our troops
TeamShellShock is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOGPRO View Post
Umm Shell sorry Bud but what dose the word unobvious mean??? It means you dont know so its only a 1-1 penelty( for playing on with a unobvious hit ) not a 2-1 or a 3-1 ( for playing on with a obvious hit ). I know this seems hard to understand but ill repeat " If you wipe a player off YOU HAVE DETERMAINED he was hit illeagally and can continue to play. I cant believe you cant see the reasoning in this but after 26 years in this sport i take alot for granted.
Sorry, but its not a penalty for a back of the pack hit. I understand your reasoning, its just not completly correct.

Quote:
If you wipe a player off YOU HAVE DETERMAINED he was hit illeagally and can continue to play.
Yes, but that does not ALWAYS mean that the other player MUST be penalized.


Quote:
19.04 Unobvious Hits. Unobvious hits are those which impact and break on player’s
harnesses & tubes located on players back. Players with un-obvious hits will be eliminated but
will not be penalized
. Should a player with an un-obvious hit become aware, through his/her own
actions or through information provided by teammates that he/she has been validly marked, such
hit at such time shall then be deemed to constitute an obvious hit. Any part of the harness
located in front of a players hips are considered obvious.
TeamShellShock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump