[denverpb]

A weekend ago i was at a field close to me when there was a slow day. i was ready as the main group got done so there was 6 of us ready to go. we decided the 2 people including me was fair against 4 rentals. off the break we took it easy and just went to back 2 corners. after eliminating 1 or two of their guys i got hit in the prophecy so i went to the closest sideline. I noticed one of their players had a hit on his helmet so i simply said without asking him to go out or do anything i said, "hey you have a hit on your mask" the ref who was a few feet away then got angry at me and said hey come on their rentals who gives a blank and blank. i then said well then why would i even waste my time playing if they wont get out when they are hit. that ref and i are never cool anymore and i dont play the games he's reefing so was i right?

[scroadkill]

I'de say the ref was right... its his call to make.

ask yourself this: how much money did you loose? did you set a good example as an experienced paintball player for the novices to follow? did you go congratulate the novices on the shot they made on you?

[denverpb]

i mean i neer aagrued the ref i never cussed back at the ref and i didt even mean for the guy to get out i simply said hey you're hit and then he went off on me and i understand giving rentals a bit more of a break but to completely disrespect me?

[MN_Rising]

You, in essence, were undermining the Referee - his job is to enforce whatever rules he's put in play, not yours.

[Fubarius]

Not to mention the "2 experienced players against 4 renters" should NEVER be done. You guys win and you make the other players feel like crap because the lost with superior numbers. You guys lose, and the other players feel like they didn't deserve the easy win. I've never ONCE seen the rental players in that situation say the wanted to do the same game again.

The proper divide should have been 1 and 2 against 1 and 2.

[denverpb]

ya i do agree with you guys, but to the undermining the ref i knew the ref hadnt seen it cuz he was understandebly watching us to make sure we didnt cheat, and i agree it shouldnt have been 2 on 4

[denverpb]

o and btw thanks for the feedback it will definately influence the choices i make in the future

[PBFeZ]

I question how many people that have replied to this thread are/have been refs.

You were correct. The ref was wrong to let game start with those teams. Then, by allowing the rental to play on, he wasted your time as a customer. By swearing at you, he shouldve been fired.

Do not roll over for subpar refs. Take it up with their manager.

[liquidfiretibby]

Originally Posted by PBFeZ

I question how many people that have replied to this thread are/have been refs.

You were correct. The ref was wrong to let game start with those teams. Then, by allowing the rental to play on, he wasted your time as a customer. By swearing at you, he shouldve been fired.

Do not roll over for subpar refs. Take it up with their manager.

agreed. just cuz hes the ref doesnt mean hes right...at my local fields the average ref age is like 17

[Cdumlao (Banned)]

Just deal bro

[Alex_rx1417]

He was in the wrong he really had no point to curse at you.I find it really helpful when im looking at another player and someone says playerB is hit i go in and check if its from a previous game (i come across lots of rentals that dont wipe off there old hits after we tell them to do so) or just splatter and if it is not i take them out.

[peachesarenottasty]

I think you were right. If the players felt that it was fair and the ref still let the rentals stay in even though they were ht just because you have a better marker than them is completely ridiculous. All things like that'll do is teach the renter that he can get away with **** like that, and you weren't even calling the player out. You simply said hey you got a hit on your mask right? So You were totally right.

[PoloBeer]

A hit is a hit, its that simple. The decision to do two experienced players against four rentals might not have been a good one, but once it was made he should have adhered to the rules.

As for him cursing at you, well at the field I work at we have a zero tolerance policy for cursing, especially at players. That's totally unprofessional.

[i_bunker_u]

you were right buts open play so let it go, not worth it

[Dehemotox]

i would have discouraged the playing situation, but if everyone was in agreement even after my discouragement to do the 2v4 i would have allowed it.

i (nor my field) ever let anyone play on like that. we may help new comers by giving them advice/coaching them here and there while they are playing, but to let a player play on with hits encourages cheating imo.

i would have preferred that you tell me (a ref) that the player was hit, and not to go to that player and tell him. let the refs be the middle man.

and as far as cussing at you, thats just out of line. a ref should not conduct themselves that way. makes them and the business look bad.

if that ref was working for me, i would pull him for some time/the whole day (or whatever it takes) and have a serious talk with them about the situation.

[Quacker]

I'd like to hear the refs side. What if you were doing this all day? What if that really was rub and you thought it was a hit? What if it was just a 10 year old kid and you were whining about not getting him out? What if you weren't so nice in informing the ref? I think most people believe they're rational people, but as a ref, I've seen some rational people behaving very irrationally and then cleaning the story up later to make themselves look better.

The fact that you wanted to play 2 vs 4 probably says a lot of what you think of yourself as a player. I would only play that if the 4 rentals were really begging me to play. Otherwise, I would suggest the two experienced players break up and distribute the rentals and have even teams.

What really bugs me is that some players think their 20 dollar field fee buys them tournament level reffing, with instant paint checks by highly trained refs. No. 20 bucks for rec play buys you a few refs to make sure you don't cause grievous bodily harm to yourself or others and some semblance of fair play. If I'm reffing and a rec player makes it to a key bunker but maybe took a glancing hit to his leg or pack, I'm not above letting him play on. It makes for a more exciting game and it entices new players to play aggressively and have more fun.

Pay more get more. Pay less and make do.

And I agree the ref was probably wrong in cursing you, but I know some people's definition of "curse" is pretty loose. For instance, I don't think, "What the hell are you saying?" is cursing at someone, but some do. I think of phrases like "F**K YOU" when I think of cursing.

In the future, keep your mouth shut unless it's a huge safety violation. If you don't like the calls there, stop going there. The he said she said BS gets tiresome as a ref, especially when it's adults complaining about children not getting out, or some idiot who spent 2k @ ANS gear a week ago and thinks he's a pro owning rentals and newbies.

[skunk_13_2005]

Originally Posted by Quacker

I'd like to hear the refs side. What if you were doing this all day? What if that really was rub and you thought it was a hit? What if it was just a 10 year old kid and you were whining about not getting him out? What if you weren't so nice in informing the ref? I think most people believe they're rational people, but as a ref, I've seen some rational people behaving very irrationally and then cleaning the story up later to make themselves look better.

The fact that you wanted to play 2 vs 4 probably says a lot of what you think of yourself as a player. I would only play that if the 4 rentals were really begging me to play. Otherwise, I would suggest the two experienced players break up and distribute the rentals and have even teams.

What really bugs me is that some players think their 20 dollar field fee buys them tournament level reffing, with instant paint checks by highly trained refs. No. 20 bucks for rec play buys you a few refs to make sure you don't cause grievous bodily harm to yourself or others and some semblance of fair play. If I'm reffing and a rec player makes it to a key bunker but maybe took a glancing hit to his leg or pack, I'm not above letting him play on. It makes for a more exciting game and it entices new players to play aggressively and have more fun.

Pay more get more. Pay less and make do.

And I agree the ref was probably wrong in cursing you, but I know some people's definition of "curse" is pretty loose. For instance, I don't think, "What the hell are you saying?" is cursing at someone, but some do. I think of phrases like "F**K YOU" when I think of cursing.

In the future, keep your mouth shut unless it's a huge safety violation. If you don't like the calls there, stop going there. The he said she said BS gets tiresome as a ref, especially when it's adults complaining about children not getting out, or some idiot who spent 2k @ ANS gear a week ago and thinks he's a pro owning rentals and newbies.

My thoughts exactly!

[FallNAngel]

Having been a ref before (and one that actually *worked* being a ref) here's my $0.02 on this (keeping in mind, I'd also have to hear from the ref):

Originally Posted by Fubarius

Not to mention the "2 experienced players against 4 renters" should NEVER be done. You guys win and you make the other players feel like crap because the lost with superior numbers. You guys lose, and the other players feel like they didn't deserve the easy win.

I disagree entirely. If everyone wants to do it, why not let them? I think you have to know the players in this instance. For example, I wouldn't let 2 players I know are aggressive and would just slaughter the 4 newbie players go at it, but if I think everyone is going to have fun, why not? Yes, I've played in games like this when I started, yes I got slaughtered and yes I did it again. I've also won and didn't think I had it handed to me because the 2 were clearly more experienced.

In either case, assuming what the OP said is all correct, then the ref is acting inappropriately IMO.
1) He shouldn't be swearing, period.
2) He's not doing his job.

If he's not going to call out people when there's a clear hit, why are you paying money to the field? Open play or not, your money is paying for him to do his job. Now, I'm not asking for split second paint checks and the ref to be sprinting all over the field, but enforcement of the rules is necessary. Now, if he legitimately thinks some splatter is a hit (or not), that's one thing. To ignore a hit entirely is another.

Originally Posted by Quacker

What if it was just a 10 year old kid and you were whining about not getting him out?

Did the rules include "hits on 10 year olds don't count" ?

Originally Posted by Quacker

What if you weren't so nice in informing the ref?

then the player should be dealt with separately, but that doesn't mean you don't do your job.

Originally Posted by Quacker

If I'm reffing and a rec player makes it to a key bunker but maybe took a glancing hit to his leg or pack, I'm not above letting him play on. It makes for a more exciting game and it entices new players to play aggressively and have more fun.

No, it entices new players to just cheat or not play at all. What's more thrilling to a new player:
1. Hitting someone and being able to say "yeah, I got that guy as he sprinted to that bunker"

or

2. Yeah, I thought I hit that guy sprinting to that bunker, but I guess I missed since the ref was standing right there and didn't call him.

In other words, what do you think is more likely to bring that shooter back... knowing he/she did well, or making thinking he/she did poorly?

Personally, I would've mentioned it to the field manager when it happened. Not all refs are going to want to do the work they're being paid for. If the manager won't do anything, then maybe it is time to look for a different field (if that's a possibility).

[EastCoastHitmen]

when you say 2 experianced players vs 4 "noobs" most of the time when it happens is the "noobs" want to play it, lets say theres a party of 6 people and there inexperianced usualy they want to stay together so normally the better players just play them

[Quacker]

Option 1 is terrible. You don't want your players so cowed by someone shooting they refuse to move or even look out of their bunker.

Option 2 is also terrible.

You left off option 3. The most exciting is to see that guy make it to the bunker and shoot 5 people. Then next game they want that bunker and they'll run hard for it.

Everyone has more fun. Everyone shoots more paint. The games are over faster and we can turn 4 short rounds instead of 1 long round where 3 people run out of paint but everyone else still has tons.

And by the way, when I say glancing, I mean I saw or heard the ball hit but I didn't see a big spray that indicates a sure fire hit. Probably a bounce, but I'm not going to rummage around on his pack, looking for a speck of paint. I'm more inclined to say clean and keep the game going.

Also, I definitely help the younger kids out and give them more latitude when they play. If you don't, you're losing major revenue.

Originally Posted by FallNAngel

No, it entices new players to just cheat or not play at all. What's more thrilling to a new player:
1. Hitting someone and being able to say "yeah, I got that guy as he sprinted to that bunker"

or

2. Yeah, I thought I hit that guy sprinting to that bunker, but I guess I missed since the ref was standing right there and didn't call him.

In other words, what do you think is more likely to bring that shooter back... knowing he/she did well, or making thinking he/she did poorly?

Personally, I would've mentioned it to the field manager when it happened. Not all refs are going to want to do the work they're being paid for. If the manager won't do anything, then maybe it is time to look for a different field (if that's a possibility).

[fox5100]

This happens sometimes, if your more experienced just shoot them again where they will feel it. If they still play on and the ref does nothing its probably time to talk to the owner or play somewhere else.