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Old 04-03-2008, 05:56 PM #1
Tha-Italian-Stallion
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Guesses on why sp made DLX.

My guess is the same reason Dye made proto, but for the opposite reason.

The price /quality of current SP guns is geared toward the lower end. While SP makes quality products, no one can deny that in every single B/S/T thread rules are :

No Ions! And lots of the time NO SP!

Ive shot shockers for years, love em. But i will never own one again lol. I think SP made DLX to be their front for higher end products, a name says it all. When you buy eclipse and dye you know what your buying, and for smartparts, even their Highend PL NXT's aren't retaining their value.

The SP brand, while making them filthy rich, Ions were, as far as $$ goes, genius. But SP lost it's highend consumers.

Dye had only highend consumers, then they made proto, gun's based on their current technology, but with less features, milling, etc. Id shoot a pm8 over a dm8 imo, but thats just me.

So, dye makes proto to gain more appeal to mid level.

SP makes DLX to expand what their current consumer base is, Low-mid level, to highend in order to compete with Eclipse and Dye.

Honestly? SP will win. The low end is where it's at money wise, people just getting into the sport pick up what gun? Ions. Ions are like 90% plastic, the profit margin for SP must b rediculous.

Nxts? They made them just to continue the shocker line, and it worked.

With all the money they've made, it's no wonder something like the luxe is coming out.

As far as i'm concerned it looks to be the sexiest thing since the dm3 became the dm4.

The shocker 4x4 became the sft, etc.

The new gas thru grip is going to become the dominiant technology imo, why? Does the same thing w/o adding a new reg, no need for macro line, looks, basically superior in every way.

Just my 2 cents, anyone else have an opinion.

I think DLX is going to eat up alot of dye and Eclipses consumer base once they get momentum.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:18 PM #2
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Yes, its obvious that they wanted to make an expensive gun w/o the rep of SP.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:15 PM #3
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:25 PM #4
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I agree, and they will get my business before eclipse and dye...WHY?
because its a rip-off to release a new gun every year and raise the price on it because it comes with a little less metal.
SP imo does it right, instead of coming out with a new gun, they keep working on past models and perfect them, then start selling them with the new updates.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:34 PM #5
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Originally Posted by Tha-Italian-Stallion View Post
My guess is the same reason Dye made proto, but for the opposite reason.

The price /quality of current SP guns is geared toward the lower end. While SP makes quality products, no one can deny that in every single B/S/T thread rules are :

No Ions! And lots of the time NO SP!

Ive shot shockers for years, love em. But i will never own one again lol. I think SP made DLX to be their front for higher end products, a name says it all. When you buy eclipse and dye you know what your buying, and for smartparts, even their Highend PL NXT's aren't retaining their value.
YES THE NAME SAYS IT ALL BUT TRUE PLAYERS FIND WHATS BEST FOR THEM NOT WHATS BEST FOR EVERY BODY ELSE.

The SP brand, while making them filthy rich, Ions were, as far as $$ goes, genius. But SP lost it's highend consumers.

Dye had only highend consumers, then they made proto, gun's based on their current technology, but with less features, milling, etc. Id shoot a pm8 over a dm8 imo, but thats just me.
EXACTLY WE ALL GO FOR DIFFERENT STUFF

So, dye makes proto to gain more appeal to mid level.

SP makes DLX to expand what their current consumer base is, Low-mid level, to highend in order to compete with Eclipse and Dye.

Honestly? SP will win. The low end is where it's at money wise, people just getting into the sport pick up what gun? Ions. Ions are like 90% plastic, the profit margin for SP must b rediculous.
WRONG IONS ARE NOT 90 % PLASTIC THE ONLYTHING IS THE CRAPPY OUTER SHELL, MOST PEOPLE UP THOSE TO BETTER ONES ANYWAY!!, LETS NOT BASH OTHER GUNS THE PEOPLE THAT BUY THE CHEAP GUNS HAVE TO WHEN THEY FIRST START.

Nxts? They made them just to continue the shocker line, and it worked.

With all the money they've made, it's no wonder something like the luxe is coming out.

As far as i'm concerned it looks to be the sexiest thing since the dm3 became the dm4.

The shocker 4x4 became the sft, etc.

The new gas thru grip is going to become the dominiant technology imo, why? Does the same thing w/o adding a new reg, no need for macro line, looks, basically superior in every way.

Just my 2 cents, anyone else have an opinion.

I think DLX is going to eat up alot of dye and Eclipses consumer base once they get momentum.
I AGREE WITH YOU BUT I THINK SP DID SOMETHING GOOD WHEN THEY WENT FOR THE LOW END GUNS I MEAN WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE THE NEW PLAYERS BUY THE NEW O8 EGOS AND CRAP WHEN THEY FIRST START AND MAKE THE SPORT LOOK LIKE THE ONLY WAY YOU GET TO BE GOOD IS IF YOUR RICH OR HAVE THEM START LOW END AND GET BETTER WITH LESS QUALITY AND WORK THER WAY INTO THE HIGHER END, i MEAN WE ALL STARTED CHEAP.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:35 PM #6
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And the Gas thru Grip will, in my opinion, become the market standard.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:37 PM #7
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Originally Posted by CHAOSFTW View Post
I AGREE WITH YOU BUT I THINK SP DID SOMETHING GOOD WHEN THEY WENT FOR THE LOW END GUNS I MEAN WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE THE NEW PLAYERS BUY THE NEW O8 EGOS AND CRAP WHEN THEY FIRST START AND MAKE THE SPORT LOOK LIKE THE ONLY WAY YOU GET TO BE GOOD IS IF YOUR RICH OR HAVE THEM START LOW END AND GET BETTER WITH LESS QUALITY AND WORK THER WAY INTO THE HIGHER END, i MEAN WE ALL STARTED CHEAP.
That was my point lol. The real money in paintball is the newbs, ask any store/field owner. Someone coming in and buying 500 dollars worth of low end stuff makes more profit for the store owner than it would them spending 600 dollars on a highend gun. % wise at least.

And fields? Do you make more having 50 kids coming out and practicing, what for 25 dollars a head and most bring their own cheaper paint. Or 50 kids renting full setup's, buying field paint, admission, the works.

Lowend is where the money is, with that money behind them, SP under the alias DLX is going to become major competition to dye/eclipse.. so on.

BTW sorry for double post, but he deserved a response.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:52 PM #8
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u can call a bomb a flower that doesnt make it a flower but hey i havent seen nor shoot it soo eh idk but lets hope there not as dbag as sp is in there pratices
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:16 PM #9
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At a time when all I'm hearing about is how local stores and fields are suffering, I have the pleasure of discovering that Smart Parts is trying even harder to dominate the industry. Maybe they could do something to advance paintball as a sport (television showings, main stream advertisement, tournament funding) rather than trying to monopolize the industry. By tournament funding I mean, if they'd sacrifice a fraction of their earnings towards a pb tournament with a ridiculous grand prize, do you know how much paintball's popularity would increase if there was a tourney w/ a 1st place prize of $1,000,000. Can you say ESPN. Not a load of thought went into this post, just throwing out some thoughts.
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:39 PM #10
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u can call a bomb a flower that doesnt make it a flower but hey i havent seen nor shoot it soo eh idk but lets hope there not as dbag as sp is in there pratices
It seems to me people really dislike SP, but in reality, they dont know why. Kind of like Bush, everyone hates him, but most dont exactly know why. You just hear it, cheer it, and suddenly it becomes truth. I said earlier that ive shot SP for a long time, and their products have always been top quality. Look at the Ion, you can pick one up off pbn for roughly 100$, would you rather shoot an ion or something like a mech spyder. As far as lowends, ion is the most prestigious.


Quote:
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At a time when all I'm hearing about is how local stores and fields are suffering, I have the pleasure of discovering that Smart Parts is trying even harder to dominate the industry. Maybe they could do something to advance paintball as a sport (television showings, main stream advertisement, tournament funding) rather than trying to monopolize the industry. By tournament funding I mean, if they'd sacrifice a fraction of their earnings towards a pb tournament with a ridiculous grand prize, do you know how much paintball's popularity would increase if there was a tourney w/ a 1st place prize of $1,000,000. Can you say ESPN. Not a load of thought went into this post, just throwing out some thoughts.
Money is everything. Making the sport more accessible at a lower level will overall increase the sports popularity. SP has done this.

Think about paintball in terms of all business's, the stronger one business is the stronger the industry is. Like oil, if some companies hadn't become the giants they had, then suppression of alternate fuels wouldn't have been so easy.

If SP becomes an extremely strong company financially, then they will be inclined to invest more into paintball at a later date. (By this i mean not just making products but also doing mainstream advertisement and the such)

TV ad's are extremely expensive, and with something like paintball, companies cant be sure that it will work. If you had no previous interest in ATV'ing, and you saw a commercial for a new ATV track openening up, would you spend (Paintball) $300+ to go try it out w/ your own gear. Or if you rent, maybe $100? Admission=25, gear=15, paint=50, airfills=10.

Paintball is expensive, it's not something lie skateboarding where you can do it anytime you want either. Even sports like baseball, Wednesday afternoon you can go play it.

So, if SP Eventually makes the cost of paintball go down by becoming a monopoly, then more power to them. Once they dominate the industry, they will want to expand it, like any profit driven entity.
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:06 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john2525 View Post
At a time when all I'm hearing about is how local stores and fields are suffering, I have the pleasure of discovering that Smart Parts is trying even harder to dominate the industry. Maybe they could do something to advance paintball as a sport (television showings, main stream advertisement, tournament funding) rather than trying to monopolize the industry. By tournament funding I mean, if they'd sacrifice a fraction of their earnings towards a pb tournament with a ridiculous grand prize, do you know how much paintball's popularity would increase if there was a tourney w/ a 1st place prize of $1,000,000. Can you say ESPN. Not a load of thought went into this post, just throwing out some thoughts.
I love this post. I really do. SP is pretty much the only company pushing paintball into the future. They've spent tons of money to make the biggest paintball hit on TV to date. And are putting a positive image on the sport and doing the best they can. Although tards like yourself only see the company for here'say which is always "omgz they sued like some companies" 2 companies.. whoopity freakin' doo.
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:47 PM #12
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I love this post. I really do. SP is pretty much the only company pushing paintball into the future. They've spent tons of money to make the biggest paintball hit on TV to date. And are putting a positive image on the sport and doing the best they can. Although tards like yourself only see the company for here'say which is always "omgz they sued like some companies" 2 companies.. whoopity freakin' doo.
and you are giving SP a bad name by not only preaching false information. but insulting other users on the nation.

SP isnt pushing paintball into the future. If this is the future i want nothing of it. A fatter and shorter shocker with a tweater and new internals is nothing to praise. The are hindering paintball by dominating the industry to keep their profits high. The have crushed real inovators such as AL from AKA or Tom Kaye From airgun designs (who brought you compressed air as you know and love it). SP isnt doing anything for the industry. I would honestly say kingman is doing twice as much as SP especially with their spyder cups.
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:56 PM #13
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As its been proven many times before. SP didnt take out AGD. Tom himself admitted that there was no case, no C&D order. It was toms own choice to do what he did, plus AGD is still around and they make more money off custom built guns and mechs then they would have on emags.

And if u want some true info, SP took it easy on AKA. It was AKA that didnt want part of it, and refused to take SP's warnings. Seriously paying so much per unit isnt that bad especially when the guns were selling for 1000+. Hell, ICD dropped the prices on their guns just so SP didnt get as big of a % on each unit.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:17 PM #14
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Yea the new company is to cover SP`s tracks i.e: reputation
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:18 PM #15
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If i patented a specific part of a paintball marker and then told SP to pay me $70 dollars a unit, or else face lawsuits. you think people would be pissed

Especially if i falsified prior art on the patent.........
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:37 PM #16
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and you are giving SP a bad name by not only preaching false information. but insulting other users on the nation.

SP isnt pushing paintball into the future. If this is the future i want nothing of it. A fatter and shorter shocker with a tweater and new internals is nothing to praise. The are hindering paintball by dominating the industry to keep their profits high. The have crushed real inovators such as AL from AKA or Tom Kaye From airgun designs (who brought you compressed air as you know and love it). SP isnt doing anything for the industry. I would honestly say kingman is doing twice as much as SP especially with their spyder cups.
kay stop making the emag do to cost and at the time the sport was not that developed like today. great marker but still agd makes mech marker for people all the time and they have some insane woods ballers that are willing to pay. like a firend of mine around 850 and still adding.

ICD story was BS but AKA did something like agd just backed off and on top they still are making great regs. Adding a extra percent to there markers would have killed them.

With SP making the ion just stepped up the sport for kingman. todao boards in kingman..wow. The first marker i had with a TL plus with a "upgraded" old ESP frame and i never would have never forseen the spyder of today.

SO in short good job SP and Kingman. I had to add this in my post.

About the marker, its just like a luxaruy(sp?) car for SP, just as the Cadillac is to GMC. speaker is odd to me but i love the bolt design for this beautiful crafted marker. I dont think the price is bad if someone can buy a DM8, Egos, or a Marqs. I personly still love the shocker line and the way it work by producing a new marker every 2 years. Personly i believe that the shocker is someone deading and they needed to stay in the a highend market, great move.

But i will keep my markers a super strong old shocker and accompanied by my super fast timmy. i'd rather pay for 2-3 marker then the price of one 1000+ dollar marker.

Last edited by cether : 04-03-2008 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 04-03-2008, 10:45 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papaintballer15 View Post
As its been proven many times before. SP didnt take out AGD. Tom himself admitted that there was no case, no C&D order. It was toms own choice to do what he did, plus AGD is still around and they make more money off custom built guns and mechs then they would have on emags.

And if u want some true info, SP took it easy on AKA. It was AKA that didnt want part of it, and refused to take SP's warnings. Seriously paying so much per unit isnt that bad especially when the guns were selling for 1000+. Hell, ICD dropped the prices on their guns just so SP didnt get as big of a % on each unit.
yeah but do you think tom would have stopped making emags if he knew there was no threat of a c&d. sure u can say price but even tom kaye said that he wont make anything new unless its what he thinks in innovative and something he has a patent for. (so he isnt going to give SP ****) custom built guns? are you ****ing nutz? are we even talking about the same company here? what you see on airguns.com isnt custome its called overstock. (yeah its kind of sad sp helped cripple another company whos products looked so good they each looked custome.)
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:14 AM #18
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I agree, because you know if dye or eclipse was making the luxe the thread in the news section wouldn't be filled with 3/4 of the post being hate about the gun, so trying to create a new name is exactly what sp had to do.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:38 AM #19
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I agree, because you know if dye or eclipse was making the luxe the thread in the news section wouldn't be filled with 3/4 of the post being hate about the gun, so trying to create a new name is exactly what sp had to do.
Agreed. In the grand scheme of things I don't see exactly what SP has done that warrants any type of hate. Someone mentioned a track record/reputation, what have they done that any other company hasn't or wouldn't. Copyright and patent infringement is part of any and all business. If lawsuits are your argument then your wasting your time, because the court and legal system handle that, how they rule is according to fact. If the facts are there then SP wins, if not, then there is no infringement. Simple as that.

On the other hand, SP has always respected their warranty on the guns I've purchased from them. Always repaired damages covered by their warranty, most of the time w/o me having to submit a warranty card.

The DLX is just a name for consumers to associate with a certain grade of product. In this case, its aimed toward the wealthy/sponsored tournament player.

Think about it this way, SP has stepped up their game, appealing to low, mid and high end consumers. Dye and Eclipse have only high end and mid range appeal. While kingman and spyder appeal only to low end. There are many companies in between, mostly ranging in the midnend (Infinity, Invert, DP, BL.. etc).

But if SP shows the industry that true success comes through appeal to all consumer groups, then this will make more low/mid and highend options available to all paint ball players. This plethora of choice will result in competition. Competition almost always results in price reduction to make a similar or equal product more appealing.

I.E. If the PM8 costs 750, and the Etek costs 450 (Both brand new), which are you selling more of?

End result= paintball in general becomes less costly. Major obstacle for paintball becoming a mainstream sport? High, almost incalculable cost. (Paint isn't going down anytime soon, 20-30 dollars is usually the lowest a case will cost for an unsponsored player)
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:04 AM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Alder View Post
If i patented a specific part of a paintball marker and then told SP to pay me $70 dollars a unit, or else face lawsuits. you think people would be pissed

Especially if i falsified prior art on the patent.........
At this point, I think most people, myself included, would applaud you.

I'm not completely anti-SP. I just think they are douche bags, because of the electro trigger patent they have no right to own. Dye's spool valve patent, I'm all for. It should be enforced. Numerous other patents are also completely understandable. If SP had ever, even once, invented anything, and they patented that, I'd be all for it.

Either way, I hope DLX does well with this. Their is room in paintball for the elite marker/service like the Cobra Angels originally were, and PL cockers used to be. I remember some people spending as much as $3k on a Cobra Angel, with an awesome anno, just because they wanted the best, most unique gun they could get. With the way I've designed the Banshee's valve, you could easily swap in different types of valves based on preference. I'd like to bring something unique like that to market. Hopefully DLX ends up doing just that level of custom.

BTW, paint costs have come down significantly over the years. Average paint used to run $80 a case, or even higher. When I started being able to get good, quality, tournament shootable paint for $65, I was really happy about it. The more people play, the more paint is sold, the more competitive the paint market gets, and so the prices should go down. It's simple supply/demand.

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Old 04-04-2008, 03:15 AM #21
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i think SP making DLX is a good move on their part. the bad move they made with DLX was who they decided on letting design the gun.
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