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Old 03-27-2008, 01:48 PM #1
timmyt (Banned)
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Will we ever stop funding our Islamic enemy?

Imagine if, in the middle of World War II, the U.S. government and its people gave Hitler billions of dollars, to train troops and build new weapons. Sounds impossible, right? But that's more or less the situation we find ourselves in today, former CIA director Jim Woolsey recently told the Naval Postgraduate School.

The U.S. is in the opening stages of a "Long War" with Islamic extremists. And these adversaries -- whether they're found in madrassas in Riyadh or the government in Tehran -- are funded, in small part, by oil revenue. Petrodollars go, more or less directly, to training radicals. Petrodollars get funneled to those who make and plant bombs.

"Except for our own Civil War," Woolsey notes, "this is the only war that we have fought where we are paying for both sides. We pay Saudi Arabia $160 billion for its oil, and $3 or $4 billion of that goes to the Wahhabis, who teach children to hate. We are paying for these terrorists with our SUVs."

And we are paying for them with our tanks, our Bradleys, and our fighter jets, observes Defense Technology International, which has a special issue out on "The Military and the End of Oil." In 2004, the U.S. military gobbled up 400,000 barrel of fuel a day, at cost of $6.7 billion. A year later, those costs had climbed to $8.8 billion. In 2006, the price tag is expect to total $10 billion.

end excerpt

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002449.html

Despite the fact that we did make countless business deals with the nazi regime, IBM's Hollerith machine that allowed nazis to count up Jews in record speeds just to name one, wasn't mentioned in this article, I'm going to say no.

Sucks 2 b u?

What does this say about our morals as a nation? I'm no economic guru, maybe we have to keep Saudi Arabia happy in order to keep our economy a float. But it's still sickening.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:56 PM #2
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We wouldn't have a very effective Military if it didn't use oil, and I doubt you're willing to stop driving your car to do your part either, so we're quite the lose lose situation.

Answer? Oil shale in Wyoming, Utah, and Canada.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:00 PM #3
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And drilling ANWR and off the coast of Florida. Will it keep us off of foreign oil? No, but it will reduce dependence, and reduce the amount of money going to extremists and dictators. Hell, just saying we're going to drill ANWR might make OPEC give us a break.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:01 PM #4
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We wouldn't have a very effective Military if it didn't use oil, and I doubt you're willing to stop driving your car to do your part either, so we're quite the lose lose situation.

Answer? Oil shale in Wyoming, Utah, and Canada.
I'm all for drilling natural resources in our own backyard. But it's also a personal choice. Nobody is forced to live in the suburbs and forced into a 20 minute commute to work twice a day.

I moved from the suburbs to right outside the city with ample bus routes. If i don't feel like messing with the bus, I carpool with friends or my girlfriend. I realize my lifestyle is not for everyone. But those that can sacrifice a little luxury for the war effort SHOULD.

Otherwise, we've already lost. And you'll blame the liberals riding the bus for it.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:03 PM #5
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Otherwise, we've already lost. And you'll blame the liberals riding the bus for it.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:58 PM #6
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Not all Muslims are terrorists. A very small cluster in a giant mass of people, they get funding from certain countries (*cough*cough* Iran), and people (*cough*cough*Some Saudi's) but this is not a reason for us to go to war with them.

If you dont like paying terrorists then get the manditory MPG to be raised to 40MPG (or so) and that applies to all domestic and imports. If companies dont submit to this standard then they lose the right to build/import cars (all automobiles) to the US. But this will never happen with the current administration or any other that is corrupted by big buisness.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:06 PM #7
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Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
We wouldn't have a very effective Military if it didn't use oil, and I doubt you're willing to stop driving your car to do your part either, so we're quite the lose lose situation.

Answer? Oil shale in Wyoming, Utah, and Canada.
Colorado Rocky Mountains has more oil potential than the middle east (saw it on some history channel thing). The problem is its more costly to obtain but im all for using OUR resources. The US has the most coal than any other country as well. Wind, solar, and ethanol are all developing too. Bush will deny it up and down but this war is over black gold. He doesnt want some corrupt terrorist obtaining power and spiking oil prices to $700 a barrel. However if we become energy independent then we have no need for middle eastern crude.
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:42 AM #8
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Colorado Rocky Mountains has more oil potential than the middle east (saw it on some history channel thing). The problem is its more costly to obtain but im all for using OUR resources. The US has the most coal than any other country as well. Wind, solar, and ethanol are all developing too. Bush will deny it up and down but this war is over black gold. He doesnt want some corrupt terrorist obtaining power and spiking oil prices to $700 a barrel. However if we become energy independent then we have no need for middle eastern crude.
If we really put our efforts into I'm sure we could cheapen the process of making usable oil out of the shale around the rockies. As far as other sources, blame our liberal friends (*caugh* Teddy Kennedy *caugh*) for not being able to use them to their fullest extent*. Ethanol is pretty much impractical anyway, though.




*Half joking and mostly a swipe at Ted, no need for my left leaning friends to freak out at my z0mg genrlzshinz!!1
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:47 AM #9
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If you dont like paying terrorists then get the manditory MPG to be raised to 40MPG (or so) and that applies to all domestic and imports. If companies dont submit to this standard then they lose the right to build/import cars (all automobiles) to the US. But this will never happen with the current administration or any other that is corrupted by big buisness.
This will also never happen until technology improves. The U.S. cannot function with hybrid sedans as the only vehicles. We need trucks and other
vehicles.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:40 AM #10
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Saudi Arabia only supplies 14% of our oil and much of the profits are then invested in US markets. Not much of that goes to aiding terrorists. If you are concerned with funding terrorists, don't buy opium, that's where Al-Qaeda and the Taliban get a lot of their money.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:07 AM #11
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If you are concerned with funding terrorists, don't buy opium, that's where Al-Qaeda and the Taliban get a lot of their money.
i kicked that habit a long time ago
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:23 AM #12
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This will also never happen until technology improves. The U.S. cannot function with hybrid sedans as the only vehicles. We need trucks and other
vehicles.
True, but that would pressure the companies into actualy doing somthing instead of just saying they are doing something.
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:00 AM #13
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Saudi Arabia only supplies 14% of our oil and much of the profits are then invested in US markets. Not much of that goes to aiding terrorists. If you are concerned with funding terrorists, don't buy opium, that's where Al-Qaeda and the Taliban get a lot of their money.
The former director of the CIA disagrees with you. I'll quote it again for the hard-headed.

"Except for our own Civil War," Woolsey notes, "this is the only war that we have fought where we are paying for both sides. We pay Saudi Arabia $160 billion for its oil, and $3 or $4 billion of that goes to the Wahhabis, who teach children to hate. We are paying for these terrorists with our SUVs."
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Old 03-28-2008, 08:30 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball View Post
Not all Muslims are terrorists. A very small cluster in a giant mass of people, they get funding from certain countries (*cough*cough* Iran), and people (*cough*cough*Some Saudi's) but this is not a reason for us to go to war with them.

If you dont like paying terrorists then get the manditory MPG to be raised to 40MPG (or so) and that applies to all domestic and imports. If companies dont submit to this standard then they lose the right to build/import cars (all automobiles) to the US. But this will never happen with the current administration or any other that is corrupted by big buisness.
Good luck trying to get semi's and work trucks to 40mpg.

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This will also never happen until technology improves. The U.S. cannot function with hybrid sedans as the only vehicles. We need trucks and other vehicles.


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True, but that would pressure the companies into actualy doing somthing instead of just saying they are doing something.
I get 31mpg on a car made in October of 1993... It's not that hard. There are cars that get 40mpg right now. Thing is, if you need a truck, you need a truck, there is no way around it.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:08 AM #15
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Yo, who killed the electric car?
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:25 AM #16
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Who killed the radio star?
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:56 AM #17
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We could have a more isolationist approach to acquiring oil, but where's the fun in all of it without imperialism? Damn the neo-con morons who have tossed us into this viper pit named the Middle East.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:14 PM #18
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If we could drastically cut consumer oil use, then we could free up a lot of oil that could be used for our military, which is too bureaucratic anyways.

Putting a lot of resources into Puerto Rico where we can grow Sugar Cane, which then in turn could be used to make e85 more efficiently then corn I think is a possible idea.

I think if we wanted to we could drastically reduce our dependency on foreign oil with some sacrifice. The problem is big oil is well interwoven into our government, and it is going to be hard to stop them now without some people in our government stepping up and saying, "We are done with this bull****". I find it funny that we have a war that is largely supported by conservatives, yet they tend to be the same people that are doing nothing about our energy policy which is effectively funding the other side we are fighting in this war.

These are all facts and stats from the book, "Energy Victory" by Robert Zubrin, world renowned engineer and political activist.

15 of the 19 highjackers in 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia.

In three decades since the Saudi oil embargo, they have made 2 trillion dollars solely from oil revenue. What have they done with it? Pretty much bought luxuries, and funded Islamic extremism. Only 1 in 6 Saudi's are employed. The Saudis are largely responsible for the Taliban becoming the dominating force in Afghanistan, after the Soviets were pushed out, the Saudis heavily funded the extremist Tablian which easily won over the Tribal war lords.

Oh yeah, but they are our ally, because without them oil prices would be through the roof. We have two serious problems in this country, border security, and energy policies, yet we tend to overlook both of them as problems that will solve themselves.

Forget the war in Iraq, solve our border problems, and solve our energy crisis.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:21 PM #19
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Better idea: Let's just pirate/privateer all the oil barges in the Oceans. Would anyone REALLY want to bring about MAD? Nope. America > world.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:21 PM #20
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True, but that would pressure the companies into actualy doing somthing instead of just saying they are doing something.
Good point. Have you guys seen the crazy aero-dynamic transfer trucks? They're supposed to be super efficient, but it won't really happen until they get the cost down. Saving money on fuel doesn't mean much when you have $1 million into the rig.
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Old 03-28-2008, 03:25 PM #21
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The former director of the CIA disagrees with you. I'll quote it again for the hard-headed.

"Except for our own Civil War," Woolsey notes, "this is the only war that we have fought where we are paying for both sides. We pay Saudi Arabia $160 billion for its oil, and $3 or $4 billion of that goes to the Wahhabis, who teach children to hate. We are paying for these terrorists with our SUVs."
Even after that $3 or $4 billion, I still don't think it directly sponsors significant acts of terrorism. I'm more concerned with Iran-sponsored terror or Pakistan's. Either way, Afghan opium sales still directly contribute more to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda's coffers than Saudi oil.

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Afghan poppies, which start as flowers in farmers' fields and often wind up as heroin on U.S. streets, fuel a $3 billion a year industry in Afghanistan. The industry is filling the coffers of the Taliban, the group who gave safe haven to al Qaeda before and after 9/11, and it is destabilizing the Afghan government.

"The Taliban pretty much were ancient history four years ago, and now they are back, because they are deriving money from the drug trade," said Peter Bergen, a CNN terrorism analyst.
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