[Haga652001]

To really examine Rev. Wright we need to look at his History.

Rev. Wright was Born in 1941. in a time where Separate but Equal was accepted and Black people were second class citizens. He was born to a Baptist Minister, from 1959-1961 he attended Virgina Union university. a Black university in Richmond.(At the time Blacks weren't allowed to go to White Colleges and Universities.) But left to join the Marine Corps and then later Transfered to the Navy, where he became a corpsman and even was commended by LBJ for excellence in his field. He Became Pastor of Trinity Church in 1972. at a Time when Race Relations were still very volatile at best. Trinity was a small congregation at the time on Chicago's south side. An area notoriously known as the poor black side of town and an Area where The Black Panthers, and the Nation of Islam, two groups known for advancing the black Equality movement, were not only widely influential, but also a source of hope for many disadvantaged blacks that had no hope to get out of the ubiquitous poverty that enveloped them.

Trinity Church under Rev. Wright grew in size and offered hope to the Black community as a whole. the Church offered protection and help to all sorts of disadvantaged groups. People like the poor, and disadvantaged, people with AIDS, those in Prison, Gays and lesbians. all could find a safe haven in Trinity Church.

Reverend Wright shouldn't get a pass for what he said. but nor should he be completely crucified. He was Preaching his views on Faith, politics, and society, which stemmed from his time as a young person. He grew up in a time of civil unrest between the white establishment and the black communities that felt that they were being held down for no other reason than the color of their skin.the views of him and his church, while straying from the norms of typical white society's views on faith, were in line with those he preached to.

so where do we go from here?

[Haga652001]

I meant to frame this as a Question of Race Identity and how racial Identification has framed how they view the world.

[Swerve22]

Judging by what I've heard and read about the man I'd say that he views the world through the lense of race and class. Growing in a highly segregated environment is something that us young folks probably will never be able to understand, but through his inability to grow up and correct his world view, he has come full circle to the point where now he is part of the problem, not the solution. He seems to have no desire to reconcile or change, so as far as "where do we go from here", I don't think there's anywhere we can go with the guy. He's a bigot, plain and simple.

[Haga652001]

Originally Posted by Swerve22

Judging by what I've heard and read about the man I'd say that he views the world through the lense of race and class. Growing in a highly segregated environment is something that us young folks probably will never be able to understand, but through his inability to grow up and correct his world view,

why is his world view incorrect? he ministers on Chicago's South side. one of the most segregated areas in the Country still.

how was church?

[Swerve22]

Originally Posted by Haga652001

why is his world view incorrect? he ministers on Chicago's South side. one of the most segregated areas in the Country still.

Because it works against our common goal of unity and healing. Like I said through his fiery rhetoric he has been contributing to furthering that segregation, as opposed to working with word and action towards breaking down the walls and stereotypes in the minds of those within his sphere of influence that are the very cause of racial division.

how was church?

It was good times

[JcKa]

Originally Posted by Swerve22

Because it works against our common goal of unity and healing. Like I said through his fiery rhetoric he has been contributing to furthering that segregation, as opposed to working with word and action towards breaking down the walls and stereotypes in the minds of those within his sphere of influence that are the very cause of racial division.

To your first statement it sounds as if you're proposing he be apathetic or even ignorant to the injustices, so a stir is not caused. It sounds as if you're saying it is because he points out racism that he is preventing us from curbing racism.

To your second statement, you can debase his work as pure rhetoric, however his work within the community and his church's work within the community supersede the claim that all he's done is holler. Unless you're suggesting he preaches a more relaxed view, such as "We can do this, we can work together and fix this." However I don't see how any of that goes beyond rhetoric either.

Realistically the only power one has against racism and prejudice is the ability to expose it. Also, I don't understand why you say they must break down the walls and stereotypes. It's not like the African-American community as a whole has embraced these stereotypes and now the burden is upon them to change themselves, the burden is upon the people who refuse to accept them. The walls and stereotypes have been placed upon them by the prejudice, and only the prejudice can bring them down. It's not as if the ones being oppressed are the ones not willing to change, unless your view of the situation is that it is because they refuse to see the good and only acknowledge the bad that they are somehow holding themselves and everyone back.

[kowz76]

You can't take what he says at face value. Like many people he uses A LOT of hyperbole to make his points. Does he actually want to kill all white people? No, he wants to destroy the part of white people that's racist, and that doesn't mean killing them, that means eliminating racism.

[Animalm0ther3]

See I personally can't find anything false in what he says. Our country is run by rich white people. He views it as a tragedy, and condemns it. I happen to think the same. Now we have Fox News that preaches completely wrong claims all the time, but they don't take nearly as much heat.

[Haga652001]

Originally Posted by Swerve22

Because it works against our common goal of unity and healing. Like I said through his fiery rhetoric he has been contributing to furthering that segregation, as opposed to working with word and action towards breaking down the walls and stereotypes in the minds of those within his sphere of influence that are the very cause of racial division.

he highlights problems that most people will gladly gloss over because the establishment in America has determined that:

1)The Black People have been Freed From Slavery and have started to recieve Paid Wages.

2) The Black People have been given their Own Schools and establishments through the "Separate but Equal ruling by the supreme court.

3) Black People have been given the right to vote.

4) and Finally that the Black People have been allowed to rub elbows with whites.

so there is nothing else that needs to be done to help Black people reach equality with White people.

I do understand that he can rub people the wrong way and that his sermons are out there. But he is there to remind us that, even though we have come this far. there is still farther that we need to go.

[Crede777]

Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3

See I personally can't find anything false in what he says. Our country is run by rich white people. He views it as a tragedy, and condemns it. I happen to think the same. Now we have Fox News that preaches completely wrong claims all the time, but they don't take nearly as much heat.

Our country, as a republic, has always been run by rich white people. Hence the creation of the Electoral College. Our forefathers didn't think the average American was intelligent enough to decide the outcome of this country, and instated the EC as a means of preventing a person from becoming president simply because they are "popular" among the people.

I would argue that race isn't an issue when discussing who the country is run by. I believe that the country is run by rich people in general who mainly happen to be white. And why shouldn't it be? Money = power, education, opportunities for furthering technology, etc.

Despite the 20 year gap between Rev. Wright and Martin Luther King Jr., I find the two interesting to compare and contrast.

[corporationpaintball]

Originally Posted by Swerve22

Judging by what I've heard and read about the man I'd say that he views the world through the lense of race and class. Growing in a highly segregated environment is something that us young folks probably will never be able to understand, but through his inability to grow up and correct his world view, he has come full circle to the point where now he is part of the problem, not the solution. He seems to have no desire to reconcile or change, so as far as "where do we go from here", I don't think there's anywhere we can go with the guy. He's a bigot, plain and simple.

Agreed.
Ignorance of ignorance is still unjust ignorance (I am as guilty of this as anyone).
The same phrase can be used with racism (hate in general).

[Animalm0ther3]

Originally Posted by Crede777

Our country, as a republic, has always been run by rich white people. Hence the creation of the Electoral College. Our forefathers didn't think the average American was intelligent enough to decide the outcome of this country, and instated the EC as a means of preventing a person from becoming president simply because they are "popular" among the people.

I would argue that race isn't an issue when discussing who the country is run by. I believe that the country is run by rich people in general who mainly happen to be white. And why shouldn't it be? Money = power, education, opportunities for furthering technology, etc.

Despite the 20 year gap between Rev. Wright and Martin Luther King Jr., I find the two interesting to compare and contrast.

I personally interpret what he said as more of a issue about the elites than strictly just about race. Rich white people being the neo-cons, neo-libs, big government corrupt politicians out for personal gain we've seen since... a while.Thats just my interpretation though, I could be wrong.

[Crede777]

Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3

I personally interpret what he said as more of a issue about the elites than strictly just about race. Rich white people being the neo-cons, neo-libs, big government corrupt politicians out for personal gain we've seen since... a while.Thats just my interpretation though, I could be wrong.

Ah, well in that case then yes I agree. Personal gain seems to be the motive while politics is the vehicle. What's best for our country / general population seems to have taken a backseat to personal profit in a "take what you can before it's all gone" attitude.

[corporationpaintball]

Originally Posted by Crede777

Ah, well in that case then yes I agree. Personal gain seems to be the motive while politics is the vehicle. What's best for our country / general population seems to have taken a backseat to personal profit in a "take what you can before it's all gone" attitude.

I dont mean to be harsh, but...

WELCOME TO CAPITALISM!

The whole point of living in a capitalist country is to gain personal wealth.

If I wanted to share my hard earned wealth with everyone else I would move to Cuba, China, or North Korea...

[Animalm0ther3]

Originally Posted by corporationpaintball

I dont mean to be harsh, but...

WELCOME TO CAPITALISM!

The whole point of living in a capitalist country is to gain personal wealth.

Personal gain through private business, not through politics.

[corporationpaintball]

Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3

Personal gain through private business, not through politics.

Someone should have told the Kennedy's that... (just a joke, boyo's!)

But I can relate to where you're coming from, I still hear tales of living under 'Boss Tweed' from the elder members of my family. And i'm not condoning it, but it's part of the system and the only way to fix that is from the 'inside out'.

-CP

[Crede777]

Originally Posted by corporationpaintball

I dont mean to be harsh, but...

WELCOME TO CAPITALISM!

The whole point of living in a capitalist country is to gain personal wealth.

If I wanted to share my hard earned wealth with everyone else I would move to Cuba, China, or North Korea...

This is true, and I am quite in support of economic darwinism, however... The current situation that our country is in will leave the country in a horrible state for the next (my) generation to pick up. This is economically, socially, and environmentally. What with social security, the environment / fossil fuels being used up, international relations being poor, etc.

[paintballer9876]

Originally Posted by kowz76

You can't take what he says at face value. Like many people he uses A LOT of hyperbole to make his points. Does he actually want to kill all white people? No, he wants to destroy the part of white people that's racist, and that doesn't mean killing them, that means eliminating racism.

Yes he probley doesn't want all white people dead because hes going to need a paycheck sooner or later, but the guy is a nut job, plain and simple.

How does one eliminate racism, its an emotion so getting rid of it is impossible its the individuals choice, and forcefully getting rid of it creates more racism.

Now if this nut-job does in fact mean that he wants all white people dead, he is dumber than i expected. Yes whites did use blacks as slaves, and also whites gave them freedom and sacraficed many thousands of people in the civil war to give them freedom. After a number of years they were given there freedoms like the right to vote to attend "white schools" and now they are an equal in the eyes of many americans. This guy is pissed off because there are more white successful (sp?) people than black, and a reason for this is because many blacks would rather be a "gangster" then be successful and go to collage and make 6 figures a year. His *****ing should be directed at fixing the black community not wanting to kill all white people.

So thats my rant flame or agree, w/e.

[Gagarin II]

Wright is just another race baiter, following in the footsteps of Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton. As long as race is made an issue and kept on the front page, they get paid. Face it, *******s like Wright/Jackson/Sharpton dont want racism to disappear, for without it, they're standing in the government cheese line!

[Adema3412]

Originally Posted by Gagarin II

Wright is just another race baiter, following in the footsteps of Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton. As long as race is made an issue and kept on the front page, they get paid. Face it, *******s like Wright/Jackson/Sharpton dont want racism to disappear, for without it, they're standing in the government cheese line!

All criticism of Wright standing, the man is a pastor, he isn't reaping profit by pointing what he believes to be racial injustices.

[Adema3412]

Originally Posted by paintballer9876

Yes whites did use blacks as slaves, and also whites gave them freedom and sacraficed many thousands of people in the civil war to give them freedom. .

The civil war was not about giving blacks freedom, it was about preserving the union.

If Lincoln could have preserved the Union without going to war he would have, even if that meant keeping slaves in bondage.