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Old 03-27-2008, 01:25 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyt View Post
Did some of you guys support taking over Iraq before 9/11?
Saddam vowed to bring down America, and Bin Laden openly declared war on us after clinton bombed an asprin factory back in the day. These are threats the I believe should be taken seriously and taken at face value. If you ignore them and laugh at them (as many people did after Bin Laden made his declaration), we have things like 9/11 and then people say "but why didn't anybody look at the obvious hints and take it seriously".
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:25 PM #65
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Originally Posted by 2term8r View Post
That is assuming his weapon system was actually fully deployed and working. So if he has only gotten 50% of the way to completing his WMD its ok right?

You're flawed.
No. You asked why didn't he just come clean and say he didn't have WMDs.

Saddam answered your question. He said he was bluffing so Iran wouldn't invade again.

Whether it's true or not, nobody will ever know until the WMDs are found. But I doubt that's going to happen.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:47 PM #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
Saddam vowed to bring down America, and Bin Laden openly declared war on us after clinton bombed an asprin factory back in the day. These are threats the I believe should be taken seriously and taken at face value. If you ignore them and laugh at them (as many people did after Bin Laden made his declaration), we have things like 9/11 and then people say "but why didn't anybody look at the obvious hints and take it seriously".

Swerve, you couldn't have said it any better. People want to wait untill there is an event to push us towards an action. Taking the initiative is the solution.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:47 PM #67
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Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post
Oh there you went...

I'd wondered where you'd scampered off to when in the last thread I asked you to provide a source (any source) that would refute the ISGs findings that Iraq did not have any WMD stockpiles and was not in the process of re building their WMD capabilities.

Funny that you left the thread after you couldn't back up your claims but you came to this one and kept towing the same line.

Got any sources that refute the ISGs findings yet?


And as to your ******* "they used them in the past and history repeats itself and they need to be stopped!!!!" argument, I surely hope you have some way of incorporating the fact that the United States is the one country to have used the single most destructive WMD on civillians in all of human history.

They did it once they'll do it again?

History always repeats itself? (It doesn't actually, but that's your argument)

I suppose someone better go in and disarm the US before they strike again, no?


But hey, how about that refuting the ISGs findings on no WMDs in Iraq?
my God think logically
Yes you're right we didn't find WMD during OIF, I never once said we did, therefore I'm not refuting the ISG.

To bring up WW2 is such a cop out, but it fits the responses in this forum very well. Remember that the Geneva Convention didn't exist during WW2 so what we did wasn't illegal in anyway, plus it saved countless American lives (that's good right because right now 4k is too many...right?). Laws were put in place to prevent countries from resorting to the same thing we did, Iraq broke these laws on MANY occasions even during the Gulf War.

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Originally Posted by timmyt View Post
I could go on and on with examples, but I've decided to instead stop, and play your game. Murph, you seem gung ho and in support of the Iraq war. I have one question for you: How come you're not there supporting the mission? Are you a coward?
I am supporting the mission
unlike you I haven't jumped on the anti-war bandwagon to be cool and fit in
Why are you so Anti-America?



Here is a challenge for everyone opposing the Iraq war.
I want you to take EVERYTHING that you've heard and know about the war since we've gone in and try to forget it, else you'll just be a Monday morning quarterback.
Now look at the history of Iraq from where it was, where it was headed, and Saddam Hussein's defiant attitude towards the UN. From that you have to make a judgment call, and looking back on it I think we made the appropriate call.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:01 PM #68
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Originally Posted by Murph1329 View Post
To bring up the WW2 is such a cop out, but it fits the responses in this forum very well. Remember that the Geneva Convention didn't exist during WW2 so what we did wasn't illegal in anyway, plus it saved countless American lives (that's good right because right now 4k is too many...right?). Laws were put in place to prevent countries from resorting to the same thing we did, Iraq broke these laws on MANY occasions even during the Gulf War.
It's not a cop out.

Your logic, verbatim "They'll do it once, they'll do it again"

Therefore the US fits into that, do they not?

Your attempt to tack on additional conditions severely weakens your point, because now it's not "They'll do it once, they'll do it again" it's "They'll do it once, they'll do it again because they're Iraq and we won't because we're America" which is arbitrary. Why does this logic apply to Iraq but not to you? What further conditions validate or invalidate the "history repeats itself" paradigm?

You state that it was ok to use WMDs and kill civillians because it saved lives on your side. Saddam used WMDs against his enemies because it would save Iraqi lives, and it did. So then it was ok, wasn't it?

The "law" argument absolutely doesn't hold up since it goes against international law for you guys to have invaded Iraq in the first place.

So you still haven't provided any rationale why it was justifiable to attack Iraq that holds up to the test of holding it against your own country without coming to the conclusion that you have to also destroy your own country for the betterment of "the greater good".

Not to mention the fact that by saying

Quote:
my God think logically
Yes you're right we didn't find WMD during OIF, I never once said we did, therefore I'm not refuting the ISG.
You're saying that Saddam had to be taken out in order to prevent him from using WMDs that you yourself acknowledge he did not have.

Come again?
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:17 PM #69
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Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post
It's not a cop out.

Your logic, verbatim "They'll do it once, they'll do it again"

Therefore the US fits into that, do they not?

Your attempt to tack on additional conditions severely weakens your point, because now it's not "They'll do it once, they'll do it again" it's "They'll do it once, they'll do it again because they're Iraq and we won't because we're America" which is arbitrary. Why does this logic apply to Iraq but not to you? What further conditions validate or invalidate the "history repeats itself" paradigm?

You state that it was ok to use WMDs and kill civillians because it saved lives on your side. Saddam used WMDs against his enemies because it would save Iraqi lives, and it did. So then it was ok, wasn't it?

The "law" argument absolutely doesn't hold up since it goes against international law for you guys to have invaded Iraq in the first place.

So you still haven't provided any rationale why it was justifiable to attack Iraq that holds up to the test of holding it against your own country without coming to the conclusion that you have to also destroy your own country for the betterment of "the greater good".

Not to mention the fact that by saying



You're saying that Saddam had to be taken out in order to prevent him from using WMDs that you yourself acknowledge he did not have.

Come again?
like i said before:
I want you to take EVERYTHING that you've heard and know about the war since we've gone in and try to forget it, else you'll just be a Monday morning quarterback.
Now look at the history of Iraq from where it was, where it was headed, and Saddam Hussein's defiant attitude towards the UN. From that you have to make a judgment call, and looking back on it I think we made the appropriate call.

but then again elTwitcho your father probably fled to Canada to avoid to draft, so you're opinion is going to be tainted by your father's coward influence on you
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:22 PM #70
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Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post
You're saying that Saddam had to be taken out in order to prevent him from using WMDs that you yourself acknowledge he did not have.

Come again?
currenlty i'm out of .223 ammo and I really want to shoot my M4 this weekend
hum what should i do?
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:27 PM #71
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You're turning out to be my favorite poster, like, ever.

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Originally Posted by Murph1329 View Post
like i said before:
I want you to take EVERYTHING that you've heard and know about the war since we've gone in and try to forget it, else you'll just be a Monday morning quarterback.
So you're telling me I would need to ignore any kind of information I had and become completely ignorant in order to understand your point of view?

I really don't see how that makes sense, at all.

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Originally Posted by Murph1329 View Post
like i said before:
Now look at the history of Iraq from where it was, where it was headed, and Saddam Hussein's defiant attitude towards the UN. From that you have to make a judgment call, and looking back on it I think we made the appropriate call.
Considering every assertion you guys have made turned out to be completely false, Iraq is in turmoil with no satisfactory resolution in the short term, more people have died since the invasion than during Saddam's reign, your country has wasted hundreds of billions of dollars for no discernible benefit and more likely than not you guys are going to cut and run in the next 5 years and let Iraq descend into Anarchy and become a terrorist haven for Islamic fundamentalists the world over, how exactly did you make the appropriate call????

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but then again elTwitcho your father probably fled to Canada to avoid to draft, so you're opinion is going to be tainted by your father's coward influence on you
None of my family has ever lived in the states. You can hit me with as many baseless insults as you want, you're still stupid and you still can't put together an argument that comes remotely close to coherent.

At the end of the day I'm pretty glad I'm me and you're you
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:29 PM #72
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You're in Alabama.

I said how come you're not THERE supporting the mission?
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:30 PM #73
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currenlty i'm out of .223 ammo and I really want to shoot my M4 this weekend
hum what should i do?
You should buy as many rounds as you can legally be in posession of and spend more time shooting and less time making ****ty analogies.

The ISG (who you already said you aggree with) concluded unequivocally that the sanctions and embargo against Saddam had rendered it impossible for him to buy weapons.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:34 PM #74
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Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post

So you're telling me I would need to ignore any kind of information I had and become completely ignorant in order to understand your point of view?
I'm telling you to ignore ANY and all information SINCE we started OIF and ask yourself was it a good idea to go in given the information we had at the time

Like I said before...stop being a monday morning quarterback
Too many people think you and it's sickening because most of y'all supported OIF when we first went in
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:38 PM #75
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Originally Posted by Murph1329 View Post
I'm telling you to ignore ANY and all information SINCE we started OIF and ask yourself was it a good idea to go in giving the information we had at the time

Like I said before...stop being a monday morning quarterback
Too many people think you and it's sickening because most of y'all supported OIF when we first went in
Can you try and make just ONE post without containing something totally inaccurate?

As you already addressed, I live in a place called CANADA. Most of us DIDN'T support the war when you first went in because given "the information you had at the time" there was no convincing case whatso****ingever that Iraq had WMDs. The fact that collectively we (apparently) are a whole lot smarter than your average american neo-conservative (like you) has sure as hell paid off now that we're not stuck in an unpopular failure of a war and you are.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:43 PM #76
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Originally Posted by Murph1329 View Post
I'm telling you to ignore ANY and all information SINCE we started OIF and ask yourself was it a good idea to go in given the information we had at the time

Like I said before...stop being a monday morning quarterback
Too many people think you and it's sickening because most of y'all supported OIF when we first went in
LOL

He's asking us to ignore facts and base our decision on the lies we were told in the beginning.

Still supporting the mission from the comfort of your home, I see. Good going!
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:46 PM #77
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You're in Alabama.

I said how come you're not THERE supporting the mission?
never was in the military but i used to work at the RTTC so yeah i guess i did help support the mission

oh lol elTwitcho now i'm working for a Canadian company based out of Montreal funny huh
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:50 PM #78
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never was in the military but i used to work at the RTTC so yeah i guess i did help support the mission

oh lol elTwitcho now i'm working for a Canadian company based out of Montreal funny huh
Nothing worse than people like you. People who won't fight for what they believe in.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:54 PM #79
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Nothing worse than people like you. People who won't fight for what they believe in.
...wtf
I guess you can say the same thing about the guy over at Colt making the rifles.

Seriously your logic is warped
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:21 PM #80
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Just admit it. You're scared ****less to go over to the middle east. You yourself won't sacrifice your life for the good of our country. We've got guys and GIRLS going on their 4th and 5th deployment. How come you havn't volunteered at least one year? You're ****ing 25 years old dude. That's fighting age. How's that cush IT position treating you? I bet that gut of yours is getting mighty big. Bet you get really bad back aches like a pregnant son-of-a-*****.

Yah. I'm calling out your phony patriotism. Like I said, you're the worst kind. A couch warrior.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:29 PM #81
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Just admit it. You're scared ****less to go over to the middle east. You yourself won't sacrifice your life for the good of our country. We've got guys and GIRLS going on their 4th and 5th deployment. How come you havn't volunteered at least one year? You're ****ing 25 years old dude. That's fighting age. How's that cush IT position treating you? I bet that gut of yours is getting mighty big. Bet you get really bad back aches like a pregnant son-of-a-*****.

Yah. I'm calling out your phony patriotism. Like I said, you're the worst kind. A couch warrior.
even if i did join the military they would put me infront of a computer
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:34 PM #82
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Just admit it. You're scared ****less to go over to the middle east. You yourself won't sacrifice your life for the good of our country. We've got guys and GIRLS going on their 4th and 5th deployment. Bet you get really bad back aches like a pregnant son-of-a-*****.
Ohhhhhhh, burn! He's so right! There are girls over there, GIRLS for Christ sake. And you won't even enlist when there are WOMEN over there, menstrating and stuff!
You are like a whiny pregnant *****. You want some cookie dough ice cream and a footrub you pregnant *****? Amirite? Amirite?
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:36 PM #83
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even if i did join the military they would put me infront of a computer
What a cop out! that's one more geek in the green zone who gets to go home and see his family once you replace him. don't worry about the mortars. they rarely hit anything important, I hear.

You won't see me call out swerve22 or careyman's patriotism because they respond with consideration and well thought out answers. They believe they are right and I can see that. But your arguments are LIBERAL THIS LIBERAL THAT blah blah blah.

lik i sed, im playng yur game nouw. plez contenue yur WOW levelzz.
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Old 03-27-2008, 03:39 PM #84
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Ohhhhhhh, burn! He's so right! There are girls over there, GIRLS for Christ sake. And you won't even enlist when there are WOMEN over there, menstrating and stuff!
You are like a whiny pregnant *****. You want some cookie dough ice cream and a footrub you pregnant *****? Amirite? Amirite?
lol
What's funny is i'm a 25 year old citizen and I've done more for the men and women over there than you timmyt through system testing hellfire missiles

but honestly this is pointless
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