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Old 03-25-2008, 02:41 PM #22
Kellster
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Originally Posted by paintballer9876 View Post
Job shortage is because all our jobs have been shipped over seas, raise the tariffs and jobs will start coming back to america when it becomes cheaper to make a product here then to make one in china ship it and pay the very high tariffs
Raising tariffs only saves jobs on the surface, it transfers jobs from one industry to another. For example, a tariff on foreign cars might save jobs in the lagging American car industry, but because consumers don't save as much cash, they won't buy as much furniture, which would hurt jobs in that industry. Tariffs cost the average American between $4-$12,000 each year.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:36 PM #23
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we have a job shortage because americans with out education expect high salaries and are too selfish to work for what they deserve.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:38 PM #24
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Originally Posted by DeathTaco View Post
we have a job shortage because americans with out education expect high salaries and are too selfish to work for what they deserve.
I wouldn't say there's a "job shortage," unemployment is still relatively low and is far lower than most of Western Europe's. The idea isn't to creat jobs, but to create wealth.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:53 PM #25
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I wouldn't say there's a "job shortage," unemployment is still relatively low and is far lower than most of Western Europe's. The idea isn't to creat jobs, but to create wealth.
you know what I meant

the "unemployment" problem.
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Old 03-25-2008, 06:00 PM #26
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I argue that the death toll in Iraq is VERY VERY low, 4,000 in 5 years, thats next to nothing compared to that many soldiers dying per day in previous wars.
If you take it in that context, I guess you could say it doesn't compare, but to ever say 4,000 fatalities is a low number is a stretch. Consider that is more than an entire brigade...
Congratulations on your ROTC scholarship, those are hard to get. Know that you won't be alone in your anti-war opinions. There are more active duty soldiers than you probably think who are against the occupation, and not just for selfish reasons like some *******s want to believe. IMO it is even more noble to volunteer to fight in a war you consider unjust. In the end, it's going to come down to you watching out for the men under your command, because that is all that matters to a real soldier. Depending on the outcome of November's elections, there is a possibility that the conflict may be over by the time you graduate and get your commission.

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Old 03-25-2008, 09:23 PM #27
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we have a job shortage because americans with out education expect high salaries and are too selfish to work for what they deserve.
I would say thats it is from outsourcing jobs to china, India, Korea and other less developed countries in order to pay children 10 cents a day to make stuff. I work in a "factory" and almost every single thing i process is from china, India, Korea and Africa.

And demanding a higher salary in one of the wealthiest nations is not an absurd idea. Average price of milk is 3.79, while federal minimum wage is $5.85/hour. Sort of disgusting if you think about how much money is being wasted on weapons instead of basic things like food.
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Old 03-26-2008, 09:58 PM #28
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I didn't think the war was about oil at first, but I can't be so sure anymore. There is some logic to it. The middle east controls so much of the world's supply, if something were to go wrong over there, think of how bad of shape we might be in now? Sure, nobody like's paying $3.00 for gas, but given the alternative that we would be forced to turn to (as in if we lost all middle east suppliers), I'll pay that any day.

If this did happen, we would be forced to buy from alternative locations, and when supply goes down, prices go up. We may be paying $5.00 or more even, or possibly facing a shortage. Either way, I can't begin to imagine what it would do to the economy.

So I do believe we are there to promote stable, US-Friendly support in order to keep us from having to TAKE the oil in the future if a problem like this ever came about, because I believe we would do it in a heartbeat if we had to.

My disagreement is in the execution of this process. I believe making war stirs up too much in-fighting on both sides to be an effective means of peace making. Instead, I think targetting the people of these middle eastern nations, bringing them out of poverty, connecting them to the rest of the world via the internet and other forms of mass communication would speed up the process ten fold. Think of how much we would be loved if America was known as the bringers of education, decent health systems, sanitation, and opportunity rather than "the police/occupation force". And then once you have the people on your side, what can go wrong?

I think it would have been tough to do it before the war started, and I think it will be tough to do it now. This is really the only solution I can see to this problem, but it is going to cost more American lives and more money. If we can get the people on our side, maybe we won't be the only ones in opposition to the rebels there. Besides, pulling out now will be an entire waste of the lives that have been lost, and anything gained since then. But I do believe there is still hope.

Just some of my thoughts..
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:24 PM #29
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Perhaps he should have been public enemy number something other than one, since he had no WMD's, no link to 9/11, and AQ was not in Iraq.
Perhaps...But according to every major intelligence gathering organization in the world at the time, he was and he did.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:29 PM #30
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There's supposed to be 12 trillion dollars worth of oil in Iraq. No one had control over the oil, except for Saddam and his regime. Guess what, they're gone. Nah, the oil had nothing to do with anything.
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Old 03-26-2008, 10:41 PM #31
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Also the fact that the gov't used to support Saddam and did nothing when he was slaughtering the Kurds, and rebellions after the Gulf War. But suddenly Saddam is a mean guy that we have to take out.
Duh! Where have you been!

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Getting soddam hussain (sp?) out of power was something that needed to be done, the guy was trying to be the next stalin, he based everything he did off of stalins rule. We could have left after we found soddam (sp?) but the country would have erupted in civil war as different groups would have tried to gain power. This would have resulted in much more iraqi deaths probley less american deaths and oil would probey be reaching more like 5-6 dollars a gallon than the average of $4 a gallon.
But thats my opinion.
I understand what you're saying.

But tell me, and tell me with objectivity;

WHO THE **** CARES WHAT SADDAM IS DOING HALF A WORLD AWAY?

Sure, what he did was despicable. For all I care, he should die a painful death. But, why should WE sacrifice OUR young men and women, OUR tax money, and OUR resources, to take a despot out of power? If we took out all the evil people in the world and freed their oppressed peoples, we'd go bankrupt in the first day. Trust me, I'm more of a humanitarian than most people, but it's unreasonable to force the American people to pay for the problems of other people, in other countries, that has no effect on us.

Not to mention, our CIA has put men like Saddam IN POWER in the past.

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The point was Saddam was public enemy number one at the time. What I find ironic is people that unequivocally condemn Iraq claiming that we should be going into Darfur - wtf?
Public enemy, eh? Sure, he was a menace, but not to us. He didn't posses any weaponry that could hurt us, given we're 3,000? miles away, across a large Ocean. What the **** is Saddam going to do? He gasses his people and makes bombs out of radios and depleted bombs WE GAVE HIM. All he can do really, is annoy our allies/interests in that region of the world. WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE NO BUSINESS DEALING WITH PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Saddam posed no threat to us. Even if he DID, it's our own fault, no? Oh right, we're America, we're never wrong!
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Old 03-26-2008, 11:54 PM #32
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If your biggest grievance with the war in Iraq is money, than you may have a serious problem putting the situation into a realistic perspective.

I agree the money used could be spent elsewhere, but that isn't really the issue. The death rate is low as well, but why are there numbers on the board to begin with? When will they stop? Who benefits from occupation? I think you should be asking these questions to yourself, or at least contemplating the answer with more depth involved.
Those questions you are telling him to ask himself are unable to be answered. This is why he resorts to the money. The war in Iraq is costing us billions upon billions, and since our own country needs economic help, we need to pull out.

All those questions can be answered differently by each party, and we can't answer them all with 100% assurance, without making an assumption, so there must be different, factually based, means in modifying this wreck and drawing a conclusion.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:38 AM #33
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Guys I have an idea...how about we go all over the world taking out ruthless dictators? I mean, sure we will lose men, money, and resources in the process but we have a moral responsibility as the only super-power to be a force for good, to spread democracy all over the world!

/imperialistic democrat/republican foreign policy attitude
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:48 AM #34
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well... for one, we're not the only superpower.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:44 AM #35
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well... for one, we're not the only superpower.
Some people say we are, some people say we aren't, it is a very subjective subject.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:56 AM #36
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Originally Posted by tonysk83 View Post
Guys I have an idea...how about we go all over the world taking out ruthless dictators? I mean, sure we will lose men, money, and resources in the process but we have a moral responsibility as the only super-power to be a force for good, to spread democracy all over the world!

/imperialistic democrat/republican foreign policy attitude
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Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge View Post
Duh! Where have you been!



I understand what you're saying.

But tell me, and tell me with objectivity;

WHO THE **** CARES WHAT SADDAM IS DOING HALF A WORLD AWAY?

Sure, what he did was despicable. For all I care, he should die a painful death. But, why should WE sacrifice OUR young men and women, OUR tax money, and OUR resources, to take a despot out of power? If we took out all the evil people in the world and freed their oppressed peoples, we'd go bankrupt in the first day. Trust me, I'm more of a humanitarian than most people, but it's unreasonable to force the American people to pay for the problems of other people, in other countries, that has no effect on us.

Not to mention, our CIA has put men like Saddam IN POWER in the past.



Public enemy, eh? Sure, he was a menace, but not to us. He didn't posses any weaponry that could hurt us, given we're 3,000? miles away, across a large Ocean. What the **** is Saddam going to do? He gasses his people and makes bombs out of radios and depleted bombs WE GAVE HIM. All he can do really, is annoy our allies/interests in that region of the world. WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE NO BUSINESS DEALING WITH PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Saddam posed no threat to us. Even if he DID, it's our own fault, no? Oh right, we're America, we're never wrong!
Alright, I am not going to sit by while a load of crock like this is coming out of somebody's thought pattern.

First off let me ask you both, do you think we should have been at war with Hitler?

I mean heck he was like half a world away, we should have just waited until he took out the British and then if he came around well maybe we'd declare war on him?

Is that your way of thinking? If so, you certainly have a skewed way of looking at things, let me give you an example.

Let's say you were riding a bike through town.
So there you are riding your bike minding your own business and you see some guy beating up on a little boy who is what, maybe 12 13?
An you are certain that they are going to critically hurt the kid if not kill him,(If immediate action is not taken) do you?

1: Get off your bike and deck the guy?

2: Call the police and hope they get there in time? (Which they probably wont)

Or 3: Ride on because "Who the heck cares what's going on a couple miles away, It's none of your business right?

The point is unless you are a cold hearted person, who only cares about there own well being, you'd do what any honest self respecting person would do, The right thing.

And yes the right thing includes freeing millions of people from under a evil dictatorship.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:08 AM #37
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well... for one, we're not the only superpower.
Depends on how you define superpower. We are the only military superpower. China may have more soldiers than us, but anyone with half a brain knows numbers are not everything. better logistics, better training, better technology. Our Navy and Air force are both vastly superior. In a conventional war I do not believe there is a single military out there that could defeat ours.
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:15 AM #38
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You say you want the government to step in and use its money to cut the cost of gas... Where the **** do you think the government gets that money? From our taxes...
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Old 03-27-2008, 02:57 AM #39
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well... for one, we're not the only superpower.
Actually, yes we are.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:00 AM #40
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Perhaps...But according to every major intelligence gathering organization in the world at the time, he was and he did.
If this is true, then you are admitting American intelligence is weaker than the intelligence of other nations.

Again, Both Condi and Collin Powell in 2001 said Saddam did not have wmds, nor the ability to project these weapons. There are plenty of videos online showing them say this, just google it if you don't believe it.

I will quote them:

Colin Powell in Cairo February 24, 2001:

"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours."

Condoleeza Rice, July 2001:

"We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt."

How do you reconcile the differences in intelligence? Why in 2001 did Saddam not have WMDs, then in 2003 he did? I have yet to meet anyone who can answer this question. Maybe you can.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:10 AM #41
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We have a job shortage because there are too many stupid people that picked management, marketing, or bull**** human environmental sciences in college so it would be easy.
Then when they graduate with 100 other people in their class they ***** when they can’t find a job, I guess these people fell asleep during Microeconomics 101.

If more young people would be willing to study and go into IT, engineering, and chemistry we wouldn't be outsourcing them.

I was an MIS major at Alabama and I was able to pick from four different companies to work for, so no it's not hard to find a job you just need the have the skills that people are looking for.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:21 AM #42
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If this is true, then you are admitting American intelligence is weaker than the intelligence of other nations.

Again, Both Condi and Collin Powell in 2001 said Saddam did not have wmds, nor the ability to project these weapons. There are plenty of videos online showing them say this, just google it if you don't believe it.
I cut out what they said because I really don't give a ****.

Think for yourself, and try to think logically.

FACT:
they've used chemical weapons in the past...even on us
FACT:
they had ballistic missiles during the gulf war

If we know FOR A FACT that they've been sadistic enough to use them and had the capability to use them in the past what's to say that they won't do so again in the future. Any person with basic logic can see this...please don't deny the past because it will repeat itself.

I guess you wanted to just wait until they actually had a working model again sometime in the future and used it. Which would make sense to me because liberals do just live for the day.
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