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Old 03-24-2008, 09:58 PM #1
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View on the War In Iraq (My view, looking for opinions)

Please, before I write this out, do not flame. Do not bash another's opinion, and just settle down. This is my opinion, I'm not asking for you to agree with me, I just want to know if anyone agrees with the way I'm thinking. Please, by all means, post your own opinions, but in a MATURE way (I know that might be hard for many 'nation users)

Ok, I am a High School Senior in Ohio. I have recieved an Army ROTC scholarship for 4 years (full tuition) and will be an Army officer upon graduating from my university. I am opposed to the war in iraq, not because I am against war, the cause, not the death toll, or any other normal reason. For one, I argue that the death toll in Iraq is VERY VERY low, 4,000 in 5 years, thats next to nothing compared to that many soldiers dying per day in previous wars. I oppose the war in Iraq because I believe our dollars are being wasted on the betterment of another country, when our own country needs help itself.

All the billions of dollars we have spent on the war, could we not have somehow used that money to offer cheaper gas to americans. I'm not a liberal, and I don't beleive in giving gas away. But we could severely lower costs by the gov't stepping in, and using their money to cut the costs of gasoline.

Could we not lower taxes? By not spending on the war in Iraq, we could severely cut taxes. Everyone hates taxes, wouldn't that do alot for the morale of the country as a whole? That's killing 2 birds with 1 stone, the majority of americans oppose the war, and who would complain about tax cuts? (This idea alone could possibly secure a re-election for the next president)

That kind've sums up my opinion. I think the money we are spending could be better spent on things that will help us. How can we spend money to make Iraq a better place, when were not happy with life as it is in america. I am not a believer in nat'l healthcare, but couldn't the money from iraq also be put into offsetting the costs of insurance? These are a few suggestions and I'm sure there is a whole host of other ways that money could be used, like taking over canada or mexico (that's a joke, but possible? yes. possibility of that happening, slim to none.)

Just my opinion, post yours.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:07 PM #2
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People will point out that the cost of the war is nothing compared to how much we spend on welfare and will try to turn it around against the liberals. But thats BS, you're right, the money we spent there would've done much better in our economy.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:10 PM #3
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If your biggest grievance with the war in Iraq is money, than you may have a serious problem putting the situation into a realistic perspective.

I agree the money used could be spent elsewhere, but that isn't really the issue. The death rate is low as well, but why are there numbers on the board to begin with? When will they stop? Who benefits from occupation? I think you should be asking these questions to yourself, or at least contemplating the answer with more depth involved.

Btw, Canada and Mexico have already taken over US.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:13 PM #4
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Well the death rate really isn't that low. 4,000 soldiers dead and we still don't really know why we're there, not to mention the 80,000-700,000 estimated Iraq deaths. Furthermore, you now have a migration crisis, with an immense amount of Iraqis displaced from their homes.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:19 PM #5
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Your reason is one of many reasons why we should not be in Iraq. If George Bush would have followed UN protocol we would not be in the situation we are in. I do agree that it was a blessing to the world to capture Suddam Hussein and I don't think anyone will argue with this. However, this is all that we have accomplished (with Iraqi democracy being a side product). If the intent were to remove Hussein from day one I think more support would be behind George. His mishandling of the situation overshadows removing a dictator from power.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:23 PM #6
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We wouldn't lower taxes if we weren't in Iraq. We're already running a deficit each year, and even if we weren't, the governmnet would just shift the money elsewhere instead of cutting taxes.

As for government regulating the price of gas, that would be disasterous. We tried it in the 70s and it resulted in massive shortages and we had to start rationing it off.

That being said, there are other things we could have spent the money on. In retrospect, it probably would have been a better decision.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:25 PM #7
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Illegal immigration costs us more than Iraq.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:30 PM #8
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Originally Posted by JcKa View Post
Well the death rate really isn't that low. 4,000 soldiers dead and we still don't really know why we're there, not to mention the 80,000-700,000 estimated Iraq deaths. Furthermore, you now have a migration crisis, with an immense amount of Iraqis displaced from their homes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_toll

In the grand scheme of things, I'd disagree with you, but you bring up a good point with displacement.

Exodus will occur.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:31 PM #9
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The federal government did take actions to improve life here at home.

All those billions of dollars employed hundreds of thousands of people and ensured their ability to provide for their families.

The goal was to secure oil and provide cheap oil to the United States for many years to come. The strategy was crafted by people set in lofty philosophy not pragmatism. If the strategy was created by pragmatists would we have won the war and secured a strong Middle Eastern ally? Maybe, and if so we would not be talking about the invasion at all in a negative tone.

It would simply be another positive event in the broader "war on terror" and a suitable cap to our actions.

Bush would be celebrated as one of the greatest presidents in history and we would all be driving using $1.40 gas.


I was against the war initially at the onset and I still am, but it wasn't because the idea of imperialism was wrong, but the way in which it was practiced.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:46 PM #10
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You offer a valid point but its completely theoretical thesis. The fact remains we have and will be in Iraq; they did not say "Well we could spend one trillion on the war or we could offer one trillion in tax cuts" nor would they have guessed it would have cost as much as it did.

FYI last summer democratic leaders tried cutting funding of the Iraq war even though the war would continue on; they would have cut essential funding to keep our troops safer.

You believe and trust the same people who voted for the war, then against it, then against drilling oil in our own country would push for cheaper gas? I wish I had that much faith in our own government.
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:33 AM #11
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Clinton caused mass unemployment with open trade with China. Thousands of US factories shut down across the US moved to China. So The US unemployment rate went up. The fastest way for Bush to create jobs was create a pay raise for the military and a bonus for new enlistees. Thus creating employment.
Cant have every one sitting on there bumm doing nothing so its back to Iraq and finish what his dad started after strategically blowing the crap out of it in desert storm. Saddam was a nut case he needed to be taken out and democracy created. nuff said
as for money the government prints money or makes money so its nominal. Its a matter of getting the government to give it to you. As far as the national debt. thats another story if we don't work and keep shipping out jobs over seas and buying foreign goods of course we are going to owe someone some money ("cough cough " hint hint' ....China.) as for oil there are other resources! lots! and Country's Canada Mexico Venezuela ect. but what do I know I'm a poor broke paint baller with a lousy job. So someone give me a machine gun so I can shoot people I'm tired of talking..ya know. I prefer to shoot an Angle or a good old autococker lol.lord knows I cant afford one on my own now days.
Any how if you don't agree with what the military is doing then don't join.
just don't become one then *** holes that think they are better than you cuz they were in the military.
I had a now deceased Retired Sargent first class. Tell me never join the military. and if you don't agree with me thats life. like you said its just a opinion.
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Old 03-25-2008, 04:11 AM #12
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My view is that the American people were misled. The Bush administration seems to be doing very well financially though. Did you see the size of the check Cheney got the other day from Haliburton? Too bad for everyone else in America though as the Unemployment Rate is of the chart as well as the national debt.
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Old 03-25-2008, 06:52 AM #13
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My view is that the American people were misled. The Bush administration seems to be doing very well financially though. Did you see the size of the check Cheney got the other day from Haliburton? Too bad for everyone else in America though as the Unemployment Rate is of the chart as well as the national debt.
These are pretty much my sentiments. I can't help but think that special interests (Who have ties to Cheney, obviously) were the driving force behind the invasion of Iraq.

Look at how the media/White House have spun the War. Words like 'Aggression' and 'Escalation' have been replaced with words such as 'Surge' and 'Regime-change', to moralize the context, in a true Orwellian fashion. When the Government begins to spin words, you know you have a problem.

Aside from that, I feel it's a waste of money, waste of life, and 2/3rd's of Americans want out, and over 70% of Iraqi's want us out. We should get the **** out.

Oh, and I also feel that the sudden surge of Humanitarianism from those Warmongering Neo-conservatives is truly ironic. Freeing the Iraqi's from evil Saddam, whilst ignoring much bigger issues where people are being slaughtered en masse in Darfur. The irony is astounding.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:26 AM #14
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Oh, and I also feel that the sudden surge of Humanitarianism from those Warmongering Neo-conservatives is truly ironic. Freeing the Iraqi's from evil Saddam, whilst ignoring much bigger issues where people are being slaughtered en masse in Darfur. The irony is astounding.
Also the fact that the gov't used to support Saddam and did nothing when he was slaughtering the Kurds, and rebellions after the Gulf War. But suddenly Saddam is a mean guy that we have to take out.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:51 AM #15
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Job shortage is because all our jobs have been shipped over seas, raise the tariffs and jobs will start coming back to america when it becomes cheaper to make a product here then to make one in china ship it and pay the very high tariffs. If you think that getting out of iraq would mean lower taxes you are mistaken, the government will just find another thing or create another program to spend that trillion or so dollars a year.

Getting soddam hussain (sp?) out of power was something that needed to be done, the guy was trying to be the next stalin, he based everything he did off of stalins rule. We could have left after we found soddam (sp?) but the country would have erupted in civil war as different groups would have tried to gain power. This would have resulted in much more iraqi deaths probley less american deaths and oil would probey be reaching more like 5-6 dollars a gallon than the average of $4 a gallon.
But thats my opinion.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:17 AM #16
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Oh, and I also feel that the sudden surge of Humanitarianism from those Warmongering Neo-conservatives is truly ironic. Freeing the Iraqi's from evil Saddam, whilst ignoring much bigger issues where people are being slaughtered en masse in Darfur. The irony is astounding.
The point was Saddam was public enemy number one at the time. What I find ironic is people that unequivocally condemn Iraq claiming that we should be going into Darfur - wtf?
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:18 AM #17
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why did Oprah build a hospital in Africa?

As far as being against the war in Iraq, I don't really believe the issue should be whether you are for or against it. As a future officer, your opinions don't matter. Instead, find a way to end the conflict instead of argue it.

That's the problem right now, everyone is so washed up in emotions they forget the goal, how to end the conflict without the country going in on itself again.

If we weren't spending money in Iraq, it wouldn't matter. We just wouldn't be in as massive a debt as we are now. Middle Class would still be taxed high, Upper Class would still be taxed low, and oil companies would still be getting $56 Billion net profits.

The war in Iraq is needed right now, the Iraq army is taking their foothold and starting to really pick up their weight. We're working out deals atm and putting local warlords into positions of their local police force, and putting them under the payroll. THAT is who occupation benefits.

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Old 03-25-2008, 11:42 AM #18
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Job shortage is because all our jobs have been shipped over seas, raise the tariffs and jobs will start coming back to america when it becomes cheaper to make a product here then to make one in china ship it and pay the very high tariffs. If you think that getting out of iraq would mean lower taxes you are mistaken, the government will just find another thing or create another program to spend that trillion or so dollars a year.
The answer to global outsourcing isn't more regulation. It's less. We need to lower corporate taxes and provide incentive for companies to produce in the US. We don't need to discourage imports. We need to encourage exports.

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As far as being against the war in Iraq, I don't really believe the issue should be whether you are for or against it. As a future officer, your opinions don't matter. Instead, find a way to end the conflict instead of argue it.

That's the problem right now, everyone is so washed up in emotions they forget the goal, how to end the conflict without the country going in on itself again.

If we weren't spending money in Iraq, it wouldn't matter. We just wouldn't be in as massive a debt as we are now. Middle Class would still be taxed high, Upper Class would still be taxed low, and oil companies would still be getting $56 Billion net profits.

The war in Iraq is needed right now, the Iraq army is taking their foothold and starting to really pick up their weight. We're working out deals atm and putting local warlords into positions of their local police force, and putting them under the payroll. THAT is who occupation benefits.

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I agree. We're now a position where we can't just pick up and leave. But we also need to be working to get out. Arguing about whether or not we should be there is kind of irrelevent. Now is time to deal with it, and it needs to be done delicately and with the support of the Iraqi people.
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:05 PM #19
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The point was Saddam was public enemy number one at the time. What I find ironic is people that unequivocally condemn Iraq claiming that we should be going into Darfur - wtf?
Perhaps he should have been public enemy number something other than one, since he had no WMD's, no link to 9/11, and AQ was not in Iraq. Perhaps we should have finished what we started in Afghanistan, then figured out what to do from there.
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:36 PM #20
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This "war" as you so call it, is not actually a 'war', as stated by Bill Clinton- "This is just another one of those over bloated theatre's".
My opinion, based off the people who started the situation-
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:39 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
Illegal immigration costs us more than Iraq.
Can you back that statement up? I find that hard to believe.

Wait, because you are wrong.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

Illegal immigration costs the US roughly 10 billion dollars per year.

The Iraq war costs us about 200 million dollars per day.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15377059/

Do the math, look at the figures, illegal immigration costs us far too much money, but the war in Iraq costs us even more money.
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