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Old 03-18-2008, 11:54 PM #1
Kamikaze33
 
 
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whats better

what are the strengths and weaknesses of using cocker converts? im jw cuz i wanna buy another pump and ive been throwing around the idea of converting a cocker for a while and then decided id stick with a phantom but ive been noticing the more competitive pump players arent using phantoms and they shoot wayy more. i know this is pump and all, but liek whats better about using a cocker convert than a phantom?
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:00 AM #2
phoenixrecon
 
 
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I personally owned a phantom and i decided i didn't like the pump stroke... THe pump stock on my sniper is much smother imo.
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:11 AM #3
thejudgeman66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixrecon View Post
I personally owned a phantom and i decided i didn't like the pump stroke... THe pump stock on my sniper is much smother imo.
me 2, used a phantom, didnt like the feel of it, so i got a converted cocker and feels way better, but you have to try for yourself cuz only you know how each gun will feel to you
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:18 AM #4
cockerpunk (Banned)
 
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its a prefernce issue. no one is "better" per se. i feel like i can land paint on targets better with a phantom (stock class or gravity feed), so i typically play with a phantom. for me its better than anything i have shot (which is basically every pump ever made). last weekend i was landing hits on hoppers left and right with my phantom.

others like snipers. hey whateve, im not gonna hate. i have one, i like it.

as far as "high end" pumpers ... there are MANY examples of both stock class and open class players in all ranks of pump play. many players will play both, depending on there mood.

Last edited by cockerpunk : 03-19-2008 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:27 AM #5
minimoogle
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By all means, I am no expert on Cocker pumps, but I will tell you the strenghts and weaknesses i've had in my experience.

First, The Phantom:

-Well, the Phantom's major advantage is its ease of upgradability, maintenance, and its great heritage and customer service.
- Nelson style operation means that there are really only 3-4 major components, the bolt, the hammer, and the valve and springs. The pump arm cocks the bolt back, allowing a ball to fall into the chamber, and locking the bolt and hammer together. The forward stroke then locks the bolt/hammer assembly on the sear, and seals the breach, where a trigger pull releases the sear and sends the hammer ramming into the back part of the gun, where a spring opens the poppit and sends air into the bolt, firing the ball.


Tha advantages of this are that the pump stroke on a Nelson style gun(Phantom, Buzzard, etc, etc,.) is USUALLY MUCH shorter, but the resistance on the metal bolt and the springs inside the gun make the pull much firmer, and meatier, and the ability to cock the gun without air is lost, but Auto-trigger is a standard feature, as holding down the trigger open the sear, meaning that every pump stroke opens the valve and sends air into the bolt .

Now for the Cocker:

In terms of the Cocker(or a Sheridan based design, which may or may not be similar), the pump stroke is dependant on two factors:

1. The pump Kit:
Different kits have different qualities to them, but in either case, the longer bolt in the Cocker means a longer pump stroke than in the Phantom, and some pump kits may have a sharper, or sloppier pull than others.

2. The Bolt/Hammer
Delrin bolts (like in CCM's infamous S6) will offer a much smoother pull.

The Cocker does have disadvantages though. Seeing as the bolt and hammer are not directly connected through the pump, autotrigger is not a standard feature on Cocker pumps, and may require the fabrication of an autotrigger arm connecting a trigger pin to the guide rods on the gun's sides(or a pre-made AT trigger frame, like CCM's 86* model)



Each have their advantages, the Phantom likes CO2, the Cocker hates it, the Phantom is light and nimble, and most Cockers are clumsy and bulky, but the Phantom feels small, and has an unorthadox arrangement of its layout, whereas the Cocker is just a classic PB gun design with a plastic handle on the front, and a normal tank.

This i believe answers you second question. I think most people use Cockers more because of the fact that they have a standard ASA, and can use tanks, and that Cockers also have a foregrip. Most people just like the familiarity of the standard Cocker arrangement, over the Phantom's layout.

I personally usually se Phantoms more in Stock Class, where the Cocker dominates Open Class pump.
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:12 AM #6
bnctaj
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minimoogle View Post
B
-Well, the Phantom's major advantage is its ease of upgradability, maintenance, and its great heritage and customer service. Cockers are more upgradeable than the Phantom
...
Tha advantages of this are that the pump stroke on a Nelson style gun(Phantom, Buzzard, etc, etc,.) is USUALLY MUCH shorter, but the resistance on the metal bolt and the springs inside the gun make the pull much firmer, and meatier, and the ability to cock the gun without air is lost... The ability to cock the marker without having air is not standard on most Phantoms, though some tinkering (a washer or different spring kit) can result in the ability to to "cock the marker sans air." Furthermore, the issue of "metal resistance" is changeable with a new set of springs.

Now for the Cocker:

In terms of the Cocker (or a Sheridan based design, which may or may not be similar), the pump stroke is dependent on two factors:

1. The pump Kit:
Different kits have different qualities to them, but in either case, the longer bolt in the Cocker means a longer pump stroke than in the Phantom, and some pump kits may have a sharper, or sloppier pull than others. What? My sniper is basically set to just clear the breach and cock the valve. It may be more, but, if anything, only by a tenth of an inch. It's not noticeable.

2. The Bolt/Hammer
Delrin bolts (like in CCM's infamous S6) will offer a much smoother pull. I never noticed this difference... certainly not in play. I'm pretty sure other issues have far more influence than the fraction of a Pascal that may be offered by a aluminum bolt (which tends to seal more properly due to o-rings that most delrin bolts forget)... with an aluminum bolt, the aluminum doesn't ride aluminum on aluminum. It's got the o-rings as a buffer (and to improve efficiency).
...
Each have their advantages, the Phantom likes CO2, the Cocker hates it, Myth. Not true by any stretch. Some 'cockers may not perform well out of the box sans regulator on CO2, but a drop-in spring kit will fix that. Or a regulator, such as the one that comes on a 'Cocker. Only a handful of regulators (from the early 2000's) don't work well with CO2 on a pump-action marker. the Phantom is light and nimble, and most Cockers are clumsy and bulky, but the Phantom feels small, and has an unorthadox arrangement of its layout, whereas the Cocker is just a classic PB gun design with a plastic handle on the front, and a normal tank. A Phantom can be configured to have a vertical ASA, a regulator, and a on/off. In fact, that's what mine has. Of course, this costs a tad more over a standard VA Phantom, but not much if you have a semi that requires a regulator.

This i believe answers you second question. I think most people use Cockers more because of the fact that they have a standard ASA, and can use tanks, and that Cockers also have a foregrip. Most people just like the familiarity of the standard Cocker arrangement, over the Phantom's layout. It's also handy that a Cocker is much more easily acquired by many players - they go for what, $50 now?
Personally, I see either marker performing well in either configuration. It really depends upon the end user and his or her personal tastes. When I picked up my Phantom, I was astonished by it's weight... lack of weight. It was godly. But when I picked up my Sniper, things just clicked. Alas, now I use my Phantom for the mere fact that, to me, it's easier to maintain.
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