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Old 03-22-2008, 09:33 PM #43
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SP business ethic is almost as crappy as the shocker SFT
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"Originally Posted by android17ak47
You know your addicted to paintball when, someone passes out on the feild, you run up to him and somebody yells to you "check to see if he has a pulse", and you reply, " No he doesnt, he has a vlocity".
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:59 PM #44
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well after reading about a 100 posts of the older thread im officially sigging the link to it.
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:44 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpusher View Post
It is about balance. Some corners can be cut while others can not. Really I don't care that there are these new cheap markers, but things like using super cheap aluminum on their shockers does bother me. My biggest gripe though is the whole thing with AKA.
I see I have found this thread

The shocker NXT is made from 6000 series alum and not the 3000 we did on the SFT. So, it is not super cheap on the NXT shockers. I will watch this thread and also chime in when I see wrong info.

1. AGD is in business. They chose not to make the E-Mag anymore.
2. AKA is in business. They chose not their guns anymore.

Both due to the fact that we sent them a letter about our patent. AGD did not even bother and gave up. AKA put up a little fight and gave up. But what it comes down to is that they both decided not to make them anymore. All they had to do was pay a small royalty fee, which really would not have changed much.

The only people I am aware of that Smart Parts has ever had a lawsuit with are Dye, ICD, and WDP. The WDP and DYE were counter suits from them coming after us. ICD was a different story all together. I hope that clears up issues a bit about us suing everyone. Because it is untrue.

EDIT - Pump Scout. Now that I am here, I think you better keep an eye on this thread
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:49 PM #46
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Sean,
I had always been told it was a 2000 series alloy used on the markers prior to the NXT, with the nxt being a 6061... 2011 to be exact on the SFT...

can you confirm? the previous info was from YDNA

edit: and the reasoning was the superb machining properties, which 2000 series is known for, aside from being one of the stronger "aircraft" alloys...
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:51 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzy View Post
SP claimed to have a patent on all switch-activated electropneumatic markers. In reality, the patent (which they bought for the purpose) was not as far-reaching as they would like us to believe. However, they DID have a legal department willing to backup their claims, meaning any company disputing their claim would have to hire lawyers and fight back. This basically killed: AKA, AGD (yes, they still sell old stock and offer warranty, but no longer develop new products), ICD (the first to be sued, right after the owner had a heart attack, never really developed anything after the suit, now dead), and others.

The reality is this: SP has destroyed innovative companies, including the one that basically invented modern paintball (Tom Kaye @ AGD), and given us very little in return. Patents exist to encourage innovation, yet SP has used it for the exact opposite purpose. What has SP ever innovated? As far as I can tell the only thing they ever gave us was ramping (original Shocker Turbo), the stupidest feature ever allowed on a field (basically F/A). Worse, now the entire industry seems complicit in helping SP cover its rise to dominance, probably out of fear. Paintball has changed dramatically in the past 10 years since electros because the standard, and SP has gamed that fact to the greatest extent possible.
The Original Patent was owned by PVI and SP together. PVI tried to go on their own and failed. SP bought their half of the patent in order to up keep the original. The original shocker was designed with their engineer and ours.

Patents do exist to help innovation. Isn't there another way to fire a paintball without using something someone else has developed? heck, look at planet eclipse. They were with an optical switch. There is more than 1 way to do something.

One of the most innovative companies in the 90's was KAPP. They single handedley devolped the aftermarket. Since they never patented anything, they are gone. They never protected themselves. And now they are gone. That right there shows how a company can go away by not patenting something.
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:59 PM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ieo View Post
Now, I know little to nothing about the legalities of what I'm about to suggest, so be gentle....

But would it be possible for a new company to buy AKA's designs and begin to produce markers....and then when SP rolls around to get their share like a bunch of wanna-be gangsters, they could at that point choose to settle or fight?

Like it or not, SP seems to have everyone by the balls through their manipulation of the legal system, and I really can't foresee anyone fighting and winning without equal or greater resources. The wisest course of action may be to play to SP's good side and suffer through the royalties until you become successful enough to try and shake them off, which is basically what I see MacDev doing at this point.

But hell, just about ever industry is dangerously close to slipping off to hell in a handbasket right now...maybe we'll see some of these restrictive legalities shaken loose soon as companies scramble to keep from going under.
That already happened for the most part. ICD had a lot of pressure to take us to court and they lost. The original agreement we sent them, they came back with negotiations. And SP ended up agreeing to it. But due to the pressure that ICD got from other people in the industy, they are no longer around because they made a bad choice. The long term effect is that the patents will help stabilize the industry in the long run.

Also, DYE bought their patent from the old Diablo. They did not design the first spool valve gun. But they enforce it. They did not even have anything to do with the original design.

The problem with SP, is not SP. The existing problem of why everyone hates SP is because when everything went down, SP never came in to correct the information. And it has gotten way out of hand. And I am doing that constantly. There is so much misinformation of what we have done out there. So many people say the same thing because they heard it from someone else and the phone game happens. At the end, the facts are all distorted. If enough people says it is true, therefore it must be true. And that is the problem we are facing right now.

For instance, many people think that SP put AKA and AGD out of business and that could not be further from the truth. People say we sued them, and that is incorrect as well. You also have to realize that AKA was in a lawsuit earlier with WGP, and that took a lot of money to do. They took WGP to court!

Well, I am off to the CPX living Legends game soon. I will post more as I can.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:02 AM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
Sean,
I had always been told it was a 2000 series alloy used on the markers prior to the NXT, with the nxt being a 6061... 2011 to be exact on the SFT...

can you confirm? the previous info was from YDNA

edit: and the reasoning was the superb machining properties, which 2000 series is known for, aside from being one of the stronger "aircraft" alloys...
I thought it was 3031 to be exact (I may be wrong, YDNA will actually know better than me lol..). And yes, it was done to achieve a better finish on the product. But the new NXT's are 6000. Is it 6061? I do not know for sure. But it is a 6000 series aluminum.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:06 AM #50
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If that is the case, my prior arguements hold true, the older aluminum was stronger....

thats a story for another day, but you would be suprised how many people will interperet one fault based on material for ALL faults based on material...its like instantly if the anno fades, the whole gun will break if you touch it, when in fact, the sft is a much stronger marker...

end rant
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:12 AM #51
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i find this thread interesting, keep up the rumors so sean can come and give intellegent responses to everyone and keep me busy reading !!!!
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Old 04-02-2008, 01:25 AM #52
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Ill be buying my first SP gun. An NXT Shocker, only because its a very well priced deal. But i hope i won't regret it
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Old 04-02-2008, 01:55 AM #53
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Ill be buying my first SP gun. An NXT Shocker, only because its a very well priced deal. But i hope i won't regret it
From a Shocker user myself, you won't. I suggest finding a way to send it to Rocky and Raymond Knuth somehow, a friend of theirs got them to work on mine,and it has never shot better.
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:38 AM #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean@smartpartswest View Post
EDIT - Pump Scout. Now that I am here, I think you better keep an eye on this thread
Yup. I'd actually forgotten about this thread, and was thinking about it again early this morning on my drive in to the office. Bring it up with me this weekend, if either of us remembers...
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:00 AM #55
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Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
Yup. I'd actually forgotten about this thread, and was thinking about it again early this morning on my drive in to the office. Bring it up with me this weekend, if either of us remembers...
Billy and myself will be happy to educate you in person this weekend. You going to be there Friday?
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:13 AM #56
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Heck, I remember what happened with a couple stores here in WI a few years ago. Unreal stuff. I was really surprised to see the legal tactics of somebody else's company in pursuit of making a "case" against Smart Parts. Not to mention the fallout after that against people who never should have gotten dragged into it.

Going to try to make it Friday night. Got work, family, and a van in need of a new water pump (grumble, grumble), but I really want to get down there that night.
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:16 AM #57
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Well, Friday night is the best time to talk to Billy.
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Old 04-08-2008, 10:24 PM #58
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Sean- thanks for coming in here and giving us more information.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:27 PM #59
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Any objections to renaming this the Smart Parts Legalities Discussion Thread? Gripe thread really isn't the intent here.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:38 PM #60
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I am even OK with that
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:42 PM #61
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Y'know, Sean, every time I've read your sig line, I was mentally crossing Mark Gottlieb with Marc Gottfried. How paintball-minded am I?

What I didn't get around to mentioning this weekend (and really wanted to in person) was that the idea behind OK'ing this thread in the first place was to not only cluster this sort of thing in one area where it could be properly answered, but also to do what I could to keep it out of the various News threads. With the perceptions some folks have out there, it can get a little unruly, and the hope is that this will give people a place to get, as Paul Harvey says, "the rest of the story".

One impression at a time, right?
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:40 PM #62
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so whats this one about sean? - http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.j...+DE%2fdrop%29+

how does one exactly patent something like that ... its only widespread, commonplace in every industry in the world, and fairly commonplace in paintball aswell.

you not going to claim SP "invented" this right? im pretty sure the nelspot 007 (with the wide varities of setups and parts you could buy with them) would be proof enough that this is total BS.

see, now we are even beyond patenting the legs on a chair, and now we are to patenting the action of selling a chair.

sean, seriously, there are alot easier ways to make a buck in this world then sit on the web and try to defend the indefensible.

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Old 04-17-2008, 12:54 PM #63
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Well my friend, I am sure there is a reason behind it and when I see Billy, I shall ask him. From what I read, it is for a gun kit basically that is not fully assembled into a full marker. This may have to do with laws governing international shipping. I am sure there is always more to the story. And you my friend always assumes the worst

There are more ways to discuss things in legalities without being alarmist about it. But I won't judge you for that because I actually do like you.
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