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Old 03-13-2008, 11:00 PM #22
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This may be just a bit off-topic, but I heard from one of my coworkers that CA just approved a bill that states parents don't have the right to homeschool their kids anymore... Can anyone confirm this? I haven't had the chance to investigate, yet.

If that's the case: Socialism, anyone?
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:27 AM #23
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:54 AM #24
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Originally Posted by JcKa View Post
Unfortunately only minimally.

http://www.ednews.org/articles/13337...nts/Page1.html

Charter schools are disasters, and parochial education within the city is far above the $7,500 allotment. Not to mention the fact that you have to basically be dirt poor to qualify, so covering the difference for private schools even with financial aid often comes up to 5-10% of a family's income.
Dunno, first off that website is a bit like something that would come out of the teachers union.

Secondly the whole article completely forgets to post facts, instead amiguously saying "stastically significant" etc.

Results of DC study:
http://heartland.temp.siteexecutive.com/pdf/21841k.pdf

To sum up what is there:
Less fighting.
Better school grading from parents.
Lower class sizes.
9% increased math/reading combined scores (10 in math, 8 in reading) for african americans

The only nonsignificant percentage was in the non-african american students which only made up a very low percentage.
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Old 03-14-2008, 11:41 AM #25
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The question is not why should we get rid of it, its why should we spend $56 billion a year to keep this huge bureaucracy that oversees the functions of a state.
Can I quote you for a paper I'm writing on true conservatism?


I've pulled a few other quotes from you too.
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Old 03-14-2008, 05:11 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt.is.back2011 View Post
I am also curious as to what the department of education actually does. From this thread, I can decifer that it creates standarized schooling for public education for all schools? Am I right?

Do they not also mandate that students take standarized tests? (Iowa Test, Proficiency Test, Grad. Test) And does it not also provide loans to students seeking higher education? (FAFSA)
the purpose of the department of ED has a couple functions.

1) they standardize Guidlines for what each person needs to be learning in k-12. as well as out line what a college student needs to know to earn a degree in a certain field.

2) FAFSA,

3) oversee Accreditation of Colleges.
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Old 03-14-2008, 05:36 PM #27
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Originally Posted by LegacyWins View Post
Can I quote you for a paper I'm writing on true conservatism?


I've pulled a few other quotes from you too.
Im flattered lol, but only on one condition. You have to vote for Ron Paul on May 6.
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Old 03-14-2008, 05:38 PM #28
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Office of the Secretary (OS)

* Office of Communications and Outreach (OCO)
* Office of the General Counsel (OGC)
* Office of Inspector General
* Office of Legislation and Congressional Affairs (OLCA)
* Office for Civil Rights (OCR)
* Institute of Education Sciences (IES)
o National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)
+ National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)
+ Education Resources Information Center (ERIC)
* Office of Innovation and Improvement (OII)
* Office of the Chief Financial Officer
* Office of Management
* Office of the Chief Information Officer
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o Budget Service
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Chief Operating Officer

Office of the Under Secretary (OUS)

* Office of Postsecondary Education (OPE)
* Office of Vocational and Adult Education (OVAE)
* Office of Federal Student Aid (FSA)
* President's Advisory Board on Tribal Colleges and Universities (WHITCU)
* President's Advisory Board on Historically Black Colleges and Universities (WHIHBCU)

Office of the Deputy Secretary (ODS)

* Office of Elementary and Secondary Education (OESE)
o Office of Migrant Education
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* Office of English Language Acquisition, Language Enhancement and Academic Achievement for Limited English Proficient Students (OELA)
* Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services (OSERS)
o National Institute on Disability and Rehabilitation Research (NIDRR)
o Office of Special Education Programs (OSEP)
o Rehabilitation Services Administration (RSA)
* Office of Safe and Drug Free Schools (OSDFS)
* Office of Innovation and Improvement

Associated federal organizations

* Advisory Councils and Committees
* National Assessment Governing Board (NAGB)[3]
* National Institute for Literacy (NIFL)[4]
* Federal Interagency Committee on Education (FICE)

Federally aided organizations

* Gallaudet University
* Howard University
* National Technical Institute for the Deaf



lol, bureacracy...
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Old 03-14-2008, 05:46 PM #29
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Old 03-14-2008, 11:24 PM #30
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Quote:
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Vouchers don't work.
So you're saying that something that gives people a choice in education doesn't work? I suppose it's better to let the teacher's unions and the bureaucrats make decisions for everyone about their education.

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Originally Posted by JcKa View Post
And not that many Americans attend four year college.
Which makes it an even greater tragedy that our public education system sucks so badly.
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Old 03-14-2008, 11:30 PM #31
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So you're saying that something that gives people a choice in education doesn't work? I suppose it's better to let the teacher's unions and the bureaucrats make decisions for everyone about their education.

Agree, the teachers union has been at the forefront of the stagnation of american education the past 30 years. They have basically opposed anything that holds a teacher accountable to grades.

Which makes it an even greater tragedy that our public education system sucks so badly.
I disagree. Not everyone needs a 4 year college. Plenty of jobs are trade school industry that pay well and have long term employment opportunity.
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Old 03-15-2008, 05:00 AM #32
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My school spent 10 grand on some ****ty electronic marquee two semesters ago. I don't understand why our school spent that much money on a device that 'informs' parents of what days the school gets out and sporting events, but I still have to read a History text book from 1998... Every sports team at our school gets a special assembly that takes time away from our classes, yet the principal decided to stop handing out certificates of academic achievement so that the school could save money on paper. I don't know if it's just my High school, but it seems to over glorify athletic achievements rather than academic. It's pretty depressing.
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Old 03-15-2008, 07:49 AM #33
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Originally Posted by Jim96SC2 View Post
I disagree. Not everyone needs a 4 year college. Plenty of jobs are trade school industry that pay well and have long term employment opportunity.
I don't disagree with you that there are still plenty of trades where individuals can be skilled with their hands and make a good living. All I was saying is that many people have to go to college to learn the things they should have been taught in our public high schools.
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Old 03-15-2008, 11:31 AM #34
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Originally Posted by dont touch the hair View Post
This may be just a bit off-topic, but I heard from one of my coworkers that CA just approved a bill that states parents don't have the right to homeschool their kids anymore... Can anyone confirm this? I haven't had the chance to investigate, yet.

If that's the case: Socialism, anyone?
I heard about this too. They say that the parents need a teaching dergree or some kind of certificate i think. If they make it harder to homeschool, that means more money for them by having the kids in a public school. Leave it up to California though.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:24 PM #35
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I heard about this too. They say that the parents need a teaching dergree or some kind of certificate i think. If they make it harder to homeschool, that means more money for them by having the kids in a public school. Leave it up to California though.
The government doesn't get any more money, as the majority of money for schools (public schools, of course) comes from property taxes. What your statement does bring up, though, is the fact that everyone pays property taxes, even if the parents who send their kids to a private school or homeschool them. Those parents are basically paying twice to educate their kids once, often without complaining!

I don't understand how the government really thinks they can do a better job of educating children. Last time I checked, kids who are homeschooled or attend a private school are much more prepared for the workforce/college once they graduate. But, I'm sure that the teachers' union probably wants more jobs with more security (****ing tenure), and successfully pushed this crappy idea of "fair" education through the state Senate... As if CA doesn't have enough problems as it is.
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Old 03-15-2008, 03:43 PM #36
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Originally Posted by scumquat1 View Post
I don't disagree with you that there are still plenty of trades where individuals can be skilled with their hands and make a good living. All I was saying is that many people have to go to college to learn the things they should have been taught in our public high schools.
Ahhh.. now it makes sense. Gotcha. Unfortunately college has become more like high school, just a whole lot less strict. Not sure about the totals for all colleges but mine would have me doing HALF the credits recieved would be in liberal arts "well rounded individual" classes which would have zero impact on my professional life. Thankfully I did a professional program and only needed to do like 16 credits out of 165 I graduated with (horray for overloaded schedules + summer classes for 4 years!).
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:09 AM #37
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Originally Posted by scumquat1 View Post
So you're saying that something that gives people a choice in education doesn't work? I suppose it's better to let the teacher's unions and the bureaucrats make decisions for everyone about their education.
how do you plan to get these kids out to the schools that they are going to? This is ESPECIALLY relevant for inner-city kids, the ones that would supposedly benifit the most from these vouchers.

is there going to be a set curriculum so that evertyone learns the smae thing and that everyone is prepared for either the real world or College when they graduate?
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:42 AM #38
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Originally Posted by Jim96SC2 View Post
I disagree. Not everyone needs a 4 year college. Plenty of jobs are trade school industry that pay well and have long term employment opportunity.
Look to the germans for their system. Some would argue it's a terrible system for "late bloomers" but what it does do effectively is insure that whatever job you do end up with, you are trained to the max, and rock the **** out of it. I don't think it deserves quite the amount of criticism it gets from the international community (more notably the european union, Germans for the most part seem content with their system) . Sure if you're a late bloomer and get assigned to Haptschule or Realschule instead of Gymnasium (the college prep school) it would look from the outside that the individual is doomed for good and won't be able to excel to their true potential. However this isn't the case. If you want it enough all you have to do is prove yourself to the government that you mean business and they'll enroll you in a program that lets you finish your Hauptschule education, and then drop you comfortably into Gymnasium.

I guess a lot of you would say that's way too socialist, but it fixes the problem that we have; (and this is just one of my theories, I doubt it's original by any means ) American society puts so much emphasis on the importance of a college education that many americans are duped into thinking they absolutely need to go to college to survive. Especially individuals that just aren't cut out for college, people that would have been more successful doing their own thing straight out of high school.
With society putting this kind of pressure on people, we have a lot of people that can't afford college selling their lives away for college loans. These individuals get so caught up in paying off these loans for so long that it makes you wonder if they ended up anywhere near where they wanted to be/planned on being after college. Let alone if they are happy or not.

On something else:

Say we quit wasteful spending (iraq, war on drugs, bureaucracy, ect.) paid off our debt, and the government finally started bringing in extra money. Would it be such a terrible idea to start using that money as an incentive to get our kids to excel? Meaning of course, use the money to pay X more students through university, given that they proved themselves throughout high school to be motivated, intelligent individuals?
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:42 AM #39
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Agree with ya Nick.

I would love to see the government get more actively involved in education lending. Obama's idea is good, trade public service for schooling. What he proposes seems a little low, but I could easily see an entire generation of capable Americans enter into public service and learn valuable life lessons before they are off to college. In this sense I think we should look at the Mormon's and their mission projects. The work should be granted to people so that they experience different cultures. Born in New York? West Texas is your place. Born in Montana? Florida.

Something in line with 15-20k a year would be adequate and take away much of the burden on state taxpayers who pay so much, but they themselves see little federal money back.

And as a regulator, at least a 2.0 would be necessary to maintain the scholarship.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:51 AM #40
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Agree with ya Nick.

I would love to see the government get more actively involved in education lending. Obama's idea is good, trade public service for schooling. What he proposes seems a little low, but I could easily see an entire generation of capable Americans enter into public service and learn valuable life lessons before they are off to college. In this sense I think we should look at the Mormon's and their mission projects. The work should be granted to people so that they experience different cultures. Born in New York? West Texas is your place. Born in Montana? Florida.

Something in line with 15-20k a year would be adequate and take away much of the burden on state taxpayers who pay so much, but they themselves see little federal money back.

And as a regulator, at least a 2.0 would be necessary to maintain the scholarship.
I like your idea of a "quasi-exchange student" program. Moving to a completely different environment is one of the most enriching things a person can do.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:14 AM #41
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Agree with ya Nick.

I would love to see the government get more actively involved in education lending. Obama's idea is good, trade public service for schooling. What he proposes seems a little low, but I could easily see an entire generation of capable Americans enter into public service and learn valuable life lessons before they are off to college. In this sense I think we should look at the Mormon's and their mission projects. The work should be granted to people so that they experience different cultures. Born in New York? West Texas is your place. Born in Montana? Florida.

Something in line with 15-20k a year would be adequate and take away much of the burden on state taxpayers who pay so much, but they themselves see little federal money back.

And as a regulator, at least a 2.0 would be necessary to maintain the scholarship.
Uhh, it already is involved in loans for students. Sally Mae student loans are availible with low interest and subsidized for those who qualify.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:17 AM #42
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Originally Posted by NorCalBaller88 View Post
Look to the germans for their system. Some would argue it's a terrible system for "late bloomers" but what it does do effectively is insure that whatever job you do end up with, you are trained to the max, and rock the **** out of it. I don't think it deserves quite the amount of criticism it gets from the international community (more notably the european union, Germans for the most part seem content with their system) . Sure if you're a late bloomer and get assigned to Haptschule or Realschule instead of Gymnasium (the college prep school) it would look from the outside that the individual is doomed for good and won't be able to excel to their true potential. However this isn't the case. If you want it enough all you have to do is prove yourself to the government that you mean business and they'll enroll you in a program that lets you finish your Hauptschule education, and then drop you comfortably into Gymnasium.

I guess a lot of you would say that's way too socialist, but it fixes the problem that we have; (and this is just one of my theories, I doubt it's original by any means ) American society puts so much emphasis on the importance of a college education that many americans are duped into thinking they absolutely need to go to college to survive. Especially individuals that just aren't cut out for college, people that would have been more successful doing their own thing straight out of high school.
With society putting this kind of pressure on people, we have a lot of people that can't afford college selling their lives away for college loans. These individuals get so caught up in paying off these loans for so long that it makes you wonder if they ended up anywhere near where they wanted to be/planned on being after college. Let alone if they are happy or not.
We do have things like that. Higher intelligence kids can change out for a professional training area (like nursing, which is the one I know for sure of) instead of regular class work. They still graduate but also have that medical background. Lower intelligence people can usually sub out for mechanics, etc too. Theres even a program for mentally retarded people for them to become cashiers or whatever.
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