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Old 03-02-2008, 06:36 PM #22
cyrus-the-virus90
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Originally Posted by Jim96SC2 View Post
To end medicare benifits and other entitlement programs is political suicide. We just need to find and elect someone who will do that without coming off as crazy and wantingt to take on the government by themselves. Fix one thing, then move on to the next.
Stop the war on drugs and the war on terror and you got big bucks to kick around.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:50 PM #23
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:54 PM #24
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Originally Posted by cyrus-the-virus90 View Post
Stop the war on drugs and the war on terror and you got big bucks to kick around.
No.

The United States needs to raise taxes and cut spending. We cannot let the poor starve nor can we make more promises than we can realistically furfill.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:58 PM #25
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No.

The United States needs to raise taxes and cut spending. We cannot let the poor starve nor can we make more promises than we can realistically furfill.
you need to cut taxes and spending. The more money people have the more they will spend and indirectly you will actually get more money.

I forget what this plan was called, and how to properly explain it.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:02 PM #26
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Originally Posted by Jim96SC2 View Post
To end medicare benifits and other entitlement programs is political suicide. We just need to find and elect someone who will do that without coming off as crazy and wantingt to take on the government by themselves. Fix one thing, then move on to the next.
Sorry, but Ron Paul isn't crazy. Just because you pass a judgement on his character is your problem, not his. The reason he may 'seem' crazy, is because he's passionate about his cause, he truly wants to help people, and fix our ****ing Government. NO ONE comes close to Ron Paul's integrity and knowledge. So it's either; elect someone who is going to give us another Bush/*insert ****ty President who can't balance a budget, or rely on costly Government programs here*, or elect the seemingly 'crazy' (Congratulations on interpretation?) Ron Paul; the ONLY candidate that has REAL change in mind for reforming Government spending. What has Romney proposed? He seems like the next best in-line, but I can only see him cutting Government spending minimally, not enough to address the serious issues that are in our very near future.

Ron Paul is the ONLY man for the job we currently have. Sure, there may be an ideal candidate out there somewhere, but unfortunately, HE'S NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. There's two aisles to this problem; there's Ron Paul, and there's the recycled candidates we have all already seen before.

Look at how drastic the cuts to Government spending Ron Paul has proposed; The dismantling of the IRS alone is HUGE. BILLIONS of dollars, in one Government Program. The CIA and FBI spend more money than most Government Agencies combined, and make our country less-safe. Our nation-building, what a costly spenditure.. The list can go on and on and on and on (See: Paul's platform) and never end. The fact is the only person who could diagnose this problem is Paul.

If you're going to let your blinders obstruct this very obvious fact, than I have no other person to blame, other than people like you. You let your personal interpretations of his demeanor affect a vote for a man who has *real* change that he would implement. He isn't a Politician, in the modern American way, he's a politician in the same way that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison where; people who saw REAL problems with Big Government, and had a plan to maintain the balance between Government and Peoples' Liberties.

But he's 'crazy'.



Give me a ****ing break.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:05 PM #27
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Originally Posted by cyrus-the-virus90 View Post
you need to cut taxes and spending. The more money people have the more they will spend and indirectly you will actually get more money.

I forget what this plan was called, and how to properly explain it.
I'm not sure if you are talking about the multiplier effect or the Laffer curve.

But the multiplier effect is essentially how money multiplies as it is exchanged between parties, the income multiplier is greater than the tax multiplier, meaning that the economy will be larger when taxes are lower.

The Laffer Curve takes this into account somewhat, but basically depending on where you are on the curve raising taxes may actually reduce government revenue, due to the tax's negative influence on the economy.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:08 PM #28
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No.

The United States needs to raise taxes and cut spending. We cannot let the poor starve nor can we make more promises than we can realistically furfill.
Americans are already hurting at the wallet. Consumer confidence is at an all time low, and you want to raise taxes?

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Old 03-02-2008, 07:19 PM #29
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lol.

Thats all assuming nothing changes, at all.

I seriously doubt the incompetents in power would be that stupid, even if they are slobbering, greedy pigs.
I'm not sure exactly what you'd suggest changing. . . I already give up 10% of my money to social security and medicare. Unless the earnings of the US increase at signficantly higher rates then the only solution is to raise taxes.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:25 PM #30
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I'm not sure exactly what you'd suggest changing. . . I already give up 10% of my money to social security and medicare. Unless the earnings of the US increase at signficantly higher rates then the only solution is to raise taxes.
Make the mimimum age 90 years old to collect
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:41 PM #31
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Oh yeah, don't worry guize, the world is supposed to end in 2012.
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:00 PM #32
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I'll probably be dead by 2080 so I don't care!

Oh yeah, don't worry guize, the world is supposed to end in 2012.
the World probably will end in 2012 and all of us that laughed at it will be stuck here with our cocks in our hands.
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:16 PM #33
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Originally Posted by cyrus-the-virus90 View Post
Stop the war on drugs and the war on terror and you got big bucks to kick around.
Well, kind of, but it's not the main problem. Assuming the 2009 war budget proposal maxes out ($170 billion), that will bring the total cost of the war to ~$1 trillion spent from 2001 to 2009. That makes for a little less than 11% of national debt.

IIRC someone posted on here that the war on drugs is $40 billion a year, so over the same 8 years, that's $320 billion.

Total --> $1.32 trillion

EDIT - I'm not saying that since the debt is huge it's okay to keep spending the money, just that it's not the main problem. The big problem is the inefficiency and redundancy in just about everything that the gov't does. Cutting useless dept's, jobs, etc. are a good way to solve the spending problem. I'm sure my personal bias of being for the war changes thing though...
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:40 PM #34
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It's ok, let's spend some more money in Iraq.
Sounds like a real good plan for the next 100 years.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:14 PM #35
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Stop the war on drugs and the war on terror and you got big bucks to kick around.
And you just delay the end of a broken system by throwing more money at it. Still doesn't fix the problem.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:26 PM #36
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Sorry, but Ron Paul isn't crazy. Just because you pass a judgement on his character is your problem, not his. The reason he may 'seem' crazy, is because he's passionate about his cause, he truly wants to help people, and fix our ****ing Government. NO ONE comes close to Ron Paul's integrity and knowledge. So it's either; elect someone who is going to give us another Bush/*insert ****ty President who can't balance a budget, or rely on costly Government programs here*, or elect the seemingly 'crazy' (Congratulations on interpretation?) Ron Paul; the ONLY candidate that has REAL change in mind for reforming Government spending. What has Romney proposed? He seems like the next best in-line, but I can only see him cutting Government spending minimally, not enough to address the serious issues that are in our very near future.

Some of the things he does say do come off as crazy. I consider myself a fairly average American when I judge those in office. When I hear someone touting to end taxes, cia, this, that, and another thing all in a term of office that is CRAZY. It takes a lot of time to do that. It takes a lot of time to do just one of those. Mr. Paul, IMHO, took a leap off the deep end in his election. I admire his passion, I agree with the taxes, but I also know about reality. If he were to start saying "we need to work towards <insert ONE goal> and by the end of my presidency I want that accomplished>" I would be a better supporter. Instead he comes off as a 16 yr old dreamer, change everything in no time and forget that the average person at McDonalds now can't make change in their head.

Look at how drastic the cuts to Government spending Ron Paul has proposed; The dismantling of the IRS alone is HUGE. BILLIONS of dollars, in one Government Program. The CIA and FBI spend more money than most Government Agencies combined, and make our country less-safe. Our nation-building, what a costly spenditure.. The list can go on and on and on and on (See: Paul's platform) and never end. The fact is the only person who could diagnose this problem is Paul.

Make our country less safe? There goes that teenager stuff again, looking myopically and in a negative light. How am I going to take you seriously when you make broad generalized uninformed statements like that? Sure, bad stuff has happened on both sides of the agencies, but I bet if you put them on a scale the good far outweighs the bad. Its like saying we shouldn't have medications availible because they have side effects.

If you're going to let your blinders obstruct this very obvious fact, than I have no other person to blame, other than people like you. You let your personal interpretations of his demeanor affect a vote for a man who has *real* change that he would implement. He isn't a Politician, in the modern American way, he's a politician in the same way that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison where; people who saw REAL problems with Big Government, and had a plan to maintain the balance between Government and Peoples' Liberties.

Demeanor, no. The fact that he forgets that change takes time kills his chances with me. The way e comes off wanting to rid us of our forgein intelligence arm kills it for him. The way he seems overly idealist and not rooted in reality kills it for him.

Give me a ****ing break.
I guess this again falls in the "if you don't agree with me your wrong" category for you. Vote for Paul if youwish. Vote for Hillary. Vote for Obama. Or hell, McCain. Thats your choice. But I think I've earned the ability to question someones platform and make judgements based on what I see. Thats kind of what the whole voting thing is after all.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:42 PM #37
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No.

The United States needs to raise taxes and cut spending. We cannot let the poor starve nor can we make more promises than we can realistically furfill.
For the first time ever I'm gonna quote a video game to make a point:

"A man creates, a parasite asks: "where is my share"."

MY money is MY money. The poor did NOT earn my money. I'm all for charity if you choose to do it, but keep your hands off of MY wallet. If you feel guilty about the poor dump your own money into their coffers, leave me out of it.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:10 PM #38
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Stop the war on drugs and the war on terror and you got big bucks to kick around.
In all honesty, do you really think that politicians wouldn't spend that money anyways? When social security was setup, there was supposed to be a separate account that wasn't supposed to be touched so it could thrive through the years. However, the politicians looked around and said, "Wow look at all this money just sitting here...lets just take some and leave an IOU." Well the problem is that no one has bothered repaying the IOU and they keep spending the money brought into it.

The same thing would happen if you immediately ended the war on terror and the war on drugs. You'd have all this money sitting here and the politicians would still spend it.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:11 PM #39
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In all honesty, do you really think that politicians wouldn't spend that money anyways? When social security was setup, there was supposed to be a separate account that wasn't supposed to be touched so it could thrive through the years. However, the politicians looked around and said, "Wow look at all this money just sitting here...lets just take some and leave an IOU." Well the problem is that no one has bothered repaying the IOU and they keep spending the money brought into it.

The same thing would happen if you immediately ended the war on terror and the war on drugs. You'd have all this money sitting here and the politicians would still spend it.
To be fair, most of the money that has been spent for the war on terror didn't come from anywhere. Somehow the government can generate money from nothing . . .
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:31 PM #40
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To be fair, most of the money that has been spent for the war on terror didn't come from anywhere. Somehow the government can generate money from nothing . . .
It's not the Government, it's the 'Federal Reserve'! Which happens to not be part of our government, but rather that of a collection of bankers we pay interest to for making that money come from no-where.

I want to know where the countries gold deposites are and a full account of how much gold the U.S. citizenry has in reserve...I bet it's gone!
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:37 PM #41
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It's not the Government, it's the 'Federal Reserve'! Which happens to not be part of our government, but rather that of a collection of bankers we pay interest to for making that money come from no-where.

I want to know where the countries gold deposites are and a full account of how much gold the U.S. citizenry has in reserve...I bet it's gone!
i bet there never was.
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:35 AM #42
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i bet there never was.
What was the year the gov forced the American people to turn over their gold, cause I fogot!
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