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Old 02-24-2008, 04:11 AM #127
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this is about college students.
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:13 AM #128
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but then why would it stop at college?
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:15 AM #129
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If it doesn't stop at college, why does it magically stop after people graduate, or while they are off campus? CCW holders are NOT loose cannons ready to go off.

to quote CQ

Quote:
11 US colleges and universities, including all public universities in Utah and Colorado State, allow licensed concealed carry on campus. In over 60 semesters (that's 30 school years), they have had: zero gun crimes, zero gun accidents, and zero gun thefts. Would those of you saying the campuses would turn into war zones care to explain why it hasn't happened at the 11 schools more awash in permitted gun owners than any others in the nation?
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:17 AM #130
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how many colleges are there?

how many shootings have occured at a college?
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:28 AM #131
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None at colleges that allow concealed carry.

and to answer your question, **** loads of colleges, and while still too many, not a whole lot of massacres. but just because something is rare doesn't mean you should
not prepare for it. The odds of my house going up in flames are very low, yet we still have fire alarms, smoke alarms, and fire extinguishers.
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:03 AM #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Featherlite 07 View Post
I just don't think a school is a place for a gun. I wouldn't want guns in most public buildings.

I don't want 18 year old high school kids popping off rounds because they think their GF is cheating on them with johnny.
This refers to a college setting. What's the difference between a public building (ie. town hall) as opposed to a mall, which is typically filled with a couple thousand people?
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:39 AM #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Featherlite 07 View Post
I wouldn't trust a student with a gun.
Here's the thing: they already have them. This is NOT a debate about whether students should have guns. 18+ students can already have long guns, and 21+ students can already have handguns. And indeed, they do - I know lots of students who own guns. This is ONLY about where they can carry them. You already trust licensees with your life every day - you trust them not to shoot you at the mall, at the grocery store, at the bank, at your office, etc. Why do you think campuses will be any different?

Most of the people who oppose campus carry have made this same mistake. They think the debate is about allowing students to own guns in general, so they make sweeping statements like "students shouldn't have guns because 19yos are immature." News flash: 19yos have been buying guns for a century in this country. They already own them. This is only about college campuses being taken off the list of places licensed CCW holders can't carry.

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Old 02-24-2008, 11:00 AM #134
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Are people not reading what others post? Why is everyone assuming that guns will be handed out to every student? Why do they think people under the age of 21 will be included in this?

The students we're talking about are 1) In college; 2) 21 years old or older; 3) Already own guns purchased with their own money; and 4) Have gone through background checks to get their carry permit.

College students (not "kids", you do realize they're 18+ and have the option of leading independent lives and some even protect your rights in current overseas wars) won't just go out and start buying up guns. Most don't have the funds to do so. My brother believes that this should be a right of CCW holders but won't scrape up the $55 necessary for the license, at least $350 necessary for a decent gun, and $30 for a holster if this is magically allowed. It just won't happen.
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Old 02-24-2008, 12:48 PM #135
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Warning: There will be some name-calling in this post, because I'm tired of people failing to learn reading comprehension and/or actually read the beginning post of a thread including any links, and then formulate an educated opinion on a subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akamoe View Post
It would be like opening Pandora's box. An utter hell hole. Everyone would live paranoid of everyone else, knowing that under their shirt was piece of metal that could instantly kill them and many others. A wrong look could set someone off. An accidental shove could set someone off. There would be daily shootings because of people misreading others.

There would of course be situations where it would be beneficial. But you have to consider the negative consequences that would ensue.
Yes, because licensed concealed carry permit holders start popping caps off all the time I have no problem with people carrying guns. I'm more afraid of a crackhead with a pipe looking to take my wallet to pay for his next high than the guy next to me at the movie theater with a CC permit out for an afternoon with his family.

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Originally Posted by Chucky76 View Post
so instead of police we need a bunch of vigilantes running around with handguns on college campuses?

also, not just to LGB but to everyone in general...dont tell me that background checks and stringent controls would deter crazy people from getting guns. all the guns used in the NIU shooting were purchased legally
CC permit holders aren't vigilantes, Mr. Assumption.

The thing is, the guy was apparently normal, until he went off his medicine. I'd like to know if there's a relationship between the school shootings and the shooters going off of their meds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OPEtaperunner View Post
no im under 18 and that is probably the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life....no one would ever phyically fight again just shoot eachother.
People under 18 don't have concealed carry permits. Therefore, this would not apply to you, so don't worry about it.

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Originally Posted by OPEtaperunner View Post
true but think, you cant just issue everyone a gun then expect them to know how to use it, or when the time comes that they need to if they even would THINK to pull their gun and use it effectively.
They're not issuing people guns you twat. Read the first post and any links that come with it.

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Originally Posted by OPEtaperunner View Post
you are kidding yourself if you think this wouldnt happen like the guy above me said intense mental testing, training etc. would HAVE to be instated before issuing fire arms. Dont get me wrong i would love for this occur seeing how i would no doubt feel 10x more safe wherever i go, im just arguing this from a liberal democarts eyes i personally think this idea is smart, fight fire with fire. It has risks but not more than are already there.
They aren't issuing people guns. DUH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
People don't ****ing realize that:

1. CCWs already exist; they're just not allowed to carry on campus.
2. The people who are shooting up schools don't really care about a CCW or gun laws.
3. This permits people who have been deemed responsible to carry their fire arm on campus. There will be just as many people carrying firearms on campus as there are when you go into a grocery store or mall - we'd just be better protected at school. Not everyone will have a 45 on their hip ready to fire with the drop of a hat.

I can carry my gun across the street perfectly legally; but if I cross the street and I'm on campus; that's illegal. Retarded.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wgpjr View Post
somebody actually asked me about this the other day for the school newspaper. they really messed up my quote (yeah, i made it to the paper) but basically I said that i would have no problem with armed guards carrying m16s in every building. I've been to Europe, they have much stricter police forces, even in the airports before 9/11. When I was a little kid in an airport in Italy, I saw guards everywhere carrying assault rifles, and I remember thinking that you NEVER saw a police officer that heavily armed in the U.S. I think it's a good idea though.

That might end badly with some drunk freshman on campus though. I've seen people **** with police and almost get beaten down because theyre just being drunk *******es, trying to make conversation with cops. A guard with an assault rifle would probably be even more brutal than a baltimore cop.
You don't have to get drunk, it's your own decision. You aren't allowed to carry a gun into a bar or any place that makes the majority of it's income from selling alcohol (I believe that's how it's worded; regardless, you can't carry where they serve alcohol), and freshmen aren't 21... I'm failing to see where you're going with this? If an average-aged college freshmen is carrying a pistol and drunk, he's already broken two laws right there, proving he is not a law-abiding citizen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kornsnake View Post
i think its absolutly rediculous that kids can carry guns on college campuses. i think there will be an increased number of confrentations, not so many large shootings like some of the more recent ones, but more one person gets shot on or off campus because your putting a deadly weapon in a college students hand. alot of them probably go out and get drunk once in a wile too so a gun in a drunk mans hand....not good.

most school shooters kill themselves anyway, i highly doubt there gunna care is someone shoots them in the head. all in all i think is a very very bad idea
Putting a gun in people's hands doesn't make them want to fight others... College students have the same capacity to reason as a non-student of the same age. You aren't allowed to legally carry in a bar or place serving alcohol, like I just said. Learn the laws before you start spouting off about how it'd be such a bad idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ||IcEs|| View Post
Has April Fools come early or is this thread serious?

How can you possibly think, more guns will equal nobody shooting the place up?

Lets delve deeper into this shall we?

A campus of 5,000 students and roughly 80 teachers.

60% of these people carry guns, the other 40% wants a gun, does not wish to have one or think it is stupid to have one.

Now lets take this 60% and get a true picture on what a normal person, with the power to kill, will do with a gun.

-**** around with it
-Threaten people with it
-Act all gangster
-Think how they will use it on someone
-How they hope to use it
-How they hope they won't have to use it

These are just a few.

Now, it has already been mentioned on the first page of this thread, "what if a fight broke out between two gun holders?".

Pretty much, one of these people WILL use their gun because they can claim self-defence or because they are just stupid and want to kill the other person.

He/she opens fire and injures/kills the person they were fighting and seriously injures or even kills a bystander.

So now thats two people in hospital because the theory is, more guns equals less crime!

YAY!

****ing stupid if you ask me but its what many people in this thread have stated.

Do you have any idea how dangerous and volatile a situation can be when a gun is involved?

Talk to any Police officer in any country and ask them what they have to do when a gun enters the equation, the **** hits the fan and you are in the **** from the get go.

Imagine SWAT storming a college campus only to find multiple suspects wielding guns, who have little to no training and have itchy trigegr fingers, someone is going to die even without the help of some nutjob shooting them.

Stupid, pathetic thread and unfortunately, typical replies from some.
Most people with CC permits are not going to just start fights for the hell of it, or shoot someone over their girlfriend blowing Johnny last Saturday night at the movies. Deal with that fact, stop making assumptions.

In the time it takes me to draw a gun from a holster (less than two seconds), you honestly expect 911 to be called, the SWAT team to arrive and assemble themselves, have a plan drawn up, execute said plan, and be in the room shooting at me because I have a handgun drawn? You must live in Never Never Land, cause that's about how often that happens. It's unrealistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyver View Post
How many shootings happen each year on accident? I think adding more guns to an equation can equal more accidents, even the most trained person can have an AD(Accidental Discharge)

I think to help prevent school shootings, let professors have firearms in class, get armed campus police and more of them. Put better and more secure locks in the doors. If a student doesn't belong in that certain class, they don't enter the room.

Some of my former classmates I wouldn't trust with a butter knife, much less a firearm.
There is no such thing as an accidental discharge. The only time an accidental discharge happens is if the firearm mechanically breaks down while in your hand. The rest of the time, it's a negligent discharge.
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Old 02-24-2008, 12:49 PM #136
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The rest of my post:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Featherlite 07 View Post
I just don't think a school is a place for a gun. I wouldn't want guns in most public buildings.

I don't want 18 year old high school kids popping off rounds because they think their GF is cheating on them with johnny.


I am pro gun, pro concealed carry all that, but I don't think this is a very good idea.
The 18 year old high school kids won't be popping off rounds because they think their girlfriend is cheating on them, because the 18 year old high school kids don't have concealed carry permits to begin with. Even if they do, it'd be breaking the law to carry on a public school campus (one of the places you are not legally allowed to carry regardless of whether or not you have a permit; other places are courts, federal buildings, etc.)


The point of this debate is to find out whether or not you think that people who are over the age of 21, already have their concealed carry permit, and use it daily should be allowed to carry on a COLLEGE campus for their own safety, just like they do EVERYWHERE ELSE..
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:22 PM #137
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Eh, I'll only say this. If I had been at Northern Illinois or VA Tech the day of their shootings, not nearly as many people would have died. One student with a CCW could have stopped it.
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:41 PM #138
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There were numerous pieces by VA Tech students written to the school's paper and to papers of Blacksburg (where the school is) by CCW holders relating to how defenseless they felt when they were evacuated and saw police sitting there (with the same weapons some of them normally carry, no less) at cop cars "waiting for intel".
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:39 PM #139
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The only problem is, those students didn't get any media time compared to the ones who say guns scare them, which is the effect the media was looking to have.
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:33 PM #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
I'm 100% for it; would pretty much eliminate school shootings.

However I think it should require an additional permit with a CCW.

Moved to politics.


ok some kid comes to school on drugs.....realizes he can play "dook nukem" bam...


or say some kid wants to commit suicide infront of the whole school....bam....

say some kid is having a ****ty day and does not know how to handle it...boom

say some kids getting picked on and tension get raised... boom


phsyco teacher= boom

schools with gangs in them... boom....


you tell me that answer in school..... boom






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Old 02-24-2008, 08:36 PM #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 7ate9 View Post
ok some kid comes to school on drugs.....realizes he can play "dook nukem" bam...


or say some kid wants to commit suicide infront of the whole school....bam....

say some kid is having a ****ty day and does not know how to handle it...boom

say some kids getting picked on and tension get raised... boom


phsyco teacher= boom

schools with gangs in them... boom....


you tell me that answer in school..... boom
huh?
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:40 PM #142
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huh?
Dude, come on, it's been proven if you're licensed to have a gun, you'll kill everyone at the drop of a hat.

Just like cops kill every suspect, doctors kill every patient, and teachers fail every student. It's all about power.
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:42 PM #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 7ate9 View Post
ok some kid comes to school on drugs.....realizes he can play "dook nukem" bam...


or say some kid wants to commit suicide infront of the whole school....bam....

say some kid is having a ****ty day and does not know how to handle it...boom

say some kids getting picked on and tension get raised... boom


phsyco teacher= boom

schools with gangs in them... boom....


you tell me that answer in school..... boom






Before this "some kid" character you reference would be legally capable of carrying a firearm on campus he would have to register for and recieve a concealed carry permit. This fact alone does a lot to negate the possibility that our boy "some kid" might just randomly shoot himself in the head during the middle of his 1pm poli-sci class.
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:45 PM #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by careyman_462 View Post
Dude, come on, it's been proven if you're licensed to have a gun, you'll kill everyone at the drop of a hat.

Just like cops kill every suspect, doctors kill every patient, and teachers fail every student. It's all about power.
Yah I guess. To be honest, after I got my CCW the first thing I wanted to do was rob a bank and shoot up my local police station
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:45 PM #145
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What's to stop this random kid from getting a weapon he could acquire at a lesser cost illegitimately from doing drugs and shooting up a mall?
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:49 PM #146
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What's to stop this random kid from getting a weapon he could acquire at a lesser cost illegitimately from doing drugs and shooting up a mall?
CCW holders at the mall would kill him as soon as he started shooting. Luckily he can go to a school where there aren't any of those bloodthirsty crazy concealed carriers to keep him from breaking the body count record.
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:27 PM #147
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Allowing college adults to carry guns is the one sure way to prevent or at the very least significantly shorten college shooting sprees.
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