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Old 02-22-2008, 04:09 AM #43
Drex17
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if you miss with a taser you are ****ed. I'd trust my life with a semi-automatic handgun loooong before a one shot less-lethal weapon.


Did you also know that in New York state after going though the proper channels concealed carry of a firearm is legal, and yet possession of a taser is a crime?
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:13 AM #44
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Thats about the dumbest idea I have ever heard. I do NOT want to go to college knowing that almost everyone around me might just ****ing go nuts and start gunning people down.

Even if students are above 21, they could still be irresponsible. Or they might just crack one day and go on a rampage knowing how they have the right to carry weapons [concealed] at schools/campuses.

Not here, not in the USA.
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:15 AM #45
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but its like this...


a guy is watching someone reach in their jacket.....then he gets suspicious.....

so he whips out that double barrel shotty and rips a well down the other guys chest....

then the guy falls to the ground with a pen coming out of his jacket pocket...

>.<

sorry for the bad explanation of the scenario....its late
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:19 AM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeman_69_88 View Post
Please name the firearms used. (they were all handguns?) Also what state was the shooters ccw issued from?
there were two hand guns and a shotgun i believe and im pretty sure they were purchased in illinois.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drex17 View Post
THIS


has a better chance of stopping a school shooting in its tracks than THIS could ever hope to do.

THIS

has a better chance of killing innocent people than THIS does.

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Old 02-22-2008, 04:30 AM #47
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so instead of police we need a bunch of vigilantes running around with handguns on college campuses?

also, not just to LGB but to everyone in general...dont tell me that background checks and stringent controls would deter crazy people from getting guns. all the guns used in the NIU shooting were purchased legally
Don't twist things around in favor of your argument, anyone in favor of people carrying on campus grounds don't want "vigilantes", they want responsible adults who have passed classes and are certified to carry a weapon around in public to now have the ability to protect themselves and others in case another school shooting occurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky76 View Post
THIS

has a better chance of killing innocent people than THIS does.
Your point means nothing because as it's been shown, anyone who wants to bring a gun onto a campus to kill innocent people hasn't stopped because it's a gun-free zone. Allowing concealed carry on a campus will only offer the ability for those wanting to use the gun for protection of themselves and others.


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Originally Posted by Codename067 View Post
Thats about the dumbest idea I have ever heard. I do NOT want to go to college knowing that almost everyone around me might just ****ing go nuts and start gunning people down.

Even if students are above 21, they could still be irresponsible. Or they might just crack one day and go on a rampage knowing how they have the right to carry weapons [concealed] at schools/campuses.

Not here, not in the USA.
And you think if someone goes nuts, not legally being able to have a firearm on campus is going to stop them from gunning people down? I think the law is the last concern of someone that is about to start shooting innocent people.
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:31 AM #48
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double eh? ^
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:05 AM #49
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Originally Posted by LGB View Post
Don't twist things around in favor of your argument, anyone in favor of people carrying on campus grounds don't want "vigilantes", they want responsible adults who have passed classes and are certified to carry a weapon around in public to now have the ability to protect themselves and others in case another school shooting occurs.


Your point means nothing because as it's been shown, anyone who wants to bring a gun onto a campus to kill innocent people hasn't stopped because it's a gun-free zone. Allowing concealed carry on a campus will only offer the ability for those wanting to use the gun for protection of themselves and others.


And you think if someone goes nuts, not legally being able to have a firearm on campus is going to stop them from gunning people down? I think the law is the last concern of someone that is about to start shooting innocent people.
to your first point:
i wasnt trying to twist your words, i was trying to clarify your argument. and i still disagree with your point.

to your second point:
when did i say it would deter? thats my point exactly, concealed weapons are NOT going to deter a suicidal gun man from unloading at least a clip into a crowd. having more guns is not going to make anyone feel safer except the people dumb enough to believe they could shoot a gunman across a crowded room without harming others in the process via misses or ricochets. hell even if by some miracle they drop the guy with one shot that shot could pass right through him and wound or kill an innocent bystander which at worst could result in a wrongful death lawsuit or even criminal charges pressed against the "vigilante." theres a reason average people are not trusted with shooting at criminals.

to your third point:
addressed in my response to your second point.
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Last edited by Chucky76 : 02-22-2008 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:10 AM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky76 View Post
when did i say it would deter? thats my point exactly, concealed weapons are NOT going to deter a suicidal gun man from unloading at least a clip into a crowd. having more guns is not going to make anyone feel safer except the people dumb enough to believe they could shoot a gunman across a crowded room without harming others in the process via misses or ricochets. hell even if by some miracle they drop the guy with one shot that shot could pass right through him and wound or kill an innocent bystander which at worst could result in a wrongful death lawsuit or even criminal charges pressed against the "vigilante." theres a reason average people are not trusted with shooting at criminals.

to your third point:
addressed in my response to your second point.
it would not stop shootings all together, but if you could stop a killer at 3 instead of 30.....would you? or just because he did some harm should we just say **** it and not bother?

The average person IS trusted with defending their lives, in many states CCW permits are shall issue, meaning if someone over the age of 21 with a clean record wants it.....they get it, no questions asked, no psych test, no inquiry into need. We aren't talking about vigilante justice, we are talking about self defense and the preservation of human lives.


You also keep on talking about how dangerous CCW holders are, and how it would just make things worse. your backing for this? assumptions about people being "dumb"? I mean are you kidding? There are millions of people across the country that carry concealed and THEY aren't being dumb and shooting innocents, what could possibly give you ANY evidence that things would change on a college campus besides your own fear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.ncpa.org/oped/sterling/mar899.html
Opponents of concealed carry also argue that such laws put guns in untrained hands. However, civilians are even more careful with firearms than police officers -- while there are only about 30 mistaken civilian shootings nationwide each year, the police commit more than three times as many erroneous killings as civilians.

Furthermore, Dade County, Florida, kept meticulous records for six years, and of 21,000 permit holders, there was no known incident of a permit holder injuring an innocent person. In addition, since Virginia passed a right-to-carry law more than 50,000 permits have been issued, but not one permit holder has been convicted of a crime and violent crime has dropped.
Now instead of basing your argument on emotions and assumptions, you should actually do some research. You will find that not only can the presence of CCW holders reduce crime, they are less likely to kill you than a cop. We also aren't just talking about CCW's for preventing massacres, they can stop other crimes as well. I've seen studies that show if a woman is armed an attempt at rape is TEN TIMES less likely to be successful.
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Last edited by Drex17 : 02-22-2008 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:32 AM #51
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I'm surprised I'm the one to post this, but:

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus

CQ is the leader for UNC-CH - he's a prominent member of this organization and is very knowledgeable in the nuances of who can carry on campus.

For my two cents, why can someone who can carry into any other public facility not be allowed to carry on a public campus?
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:40 AM #52
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Disclaimer: I didn't read the thread, nor do I care what your opinions are.

If I was allowed to carry a weapon around campus, I would. Sometimes people piss me off (quite often, in fact) and I think to myself, "Wow, someone should shoot this ******." Having a gun on me would just instigate the temptation.

And I'm sure some (read: a lot) people are straddling that edge on a daily basis.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
I'm 100% for it; would pretty much eliminate school shootings.

However I think it should require an additional permit with a CCW.

Moved to politics.
How would it eliminate school shootings? The majority of school shootings are executed by people who don't fear death...

Last edited by Rejoice. : 02-22-2008 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:06 AM #53
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no im under 18 and that is probably the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life....no one would ever phyically fight again just shoot eachother.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:31 AM #54
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i think its a pretty good idea.... but thats if everyone didnt break out into a shooting frenzy.... but va tech would have beeen stopped quickly if this were the case
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:33 AM #55
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i think its a pretty good idea.... but thats if everyone didnt break out into a shooting frenzy.... but va tech would have beeen stopped quickly if this were the case
true but think, you cant just issue everyone a gun then expect them to know how to use it, or when the time comes that they need to if they even would THINK to pull their gun and use it effectively.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:33 AM #56
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ONLY if the students underwent extensive tests, testing their mental stability as well as a course on gun safety. Grades also taken into account as well. I don't want some dumb ****ing jock walking around with a 9MM.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:37 AM #57
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ONLY if the students underwent extensive tests, testing their mental stability as well as a course on gun safety. Grades also taken into account as well. I don't want some dumb ****ing jock walking around with a 9MM.
agreed anyone who's spent 5 minutes in high school or any campus knows how many ****ed up insane people there are who need everything but a gun.

still i can see like 10 people freaking when one person pulls a gun and EVERYONE shoots at once and like 50 other people get shot accidently because people are to ****ing retarded to aim.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:54 AM #58
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no im under 18 and that is probably the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life....no one would ever phyically fight again just shoot eachother.
definitly because everyone who has a concealed weapons permit just shoots people when they get pissed off... u hav to think logically, if ur allowed to carry guns most likely its going to deter someone from shooting up a school, granted if they want to do it its going to happen whether or not there are other ppl with guns. I just dont see how much more dangerous it would be when most people with guns are very responsible, and prior to owning one have been taught basic ethics or w/e u want to call it involving them.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:01 PM #59
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definitly because everyone who has a concealed weapons permit just shoots people when they get pissed off... u hav to think logically, if ur allowed to carry guns most likely its going to deter someone from shooting up a school, granted if they want to do it its going to happen whether or not there are other ppl with guns. I just dont see how much more dangerous it would be when most people with guns are very responsible, and prior to owning one have been taught basic ethics or w/e u want to call it involving them.
you are kidding yourself if you think this wouldnt happen like the guy above me said intense mental testing, training etc. would HAVE to be instated before issuing fire arms. Dont get me wrong i would love for this occur seeing how i would no doubt feel 10x more safe wherever i go, im just arguing this from a liberal democarts eyes i personally think this idea is smart, fight fire with fire. It has risks but not more than are already there.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:09 PM #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejoice. View Post
Disclaimer: I didn't read the thread, nor do I care what your opinions are.

If I was allowed to carry a weapon around campus, I would. Sometimes people piss me off (quite often, in fact) and I think to myself, "Wow, someone should shoot this ******." Having a gun on me would just instigate the temptation.

And I'm sure some (read: a lot) people are straddling that edge on a daily basis.

Edit:

How would it eliminate school shootings? The majority of school shootings are executed by people who don't fear death...
then why should anyone give a **** what your opinions is?
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:43 PM #61
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Quote:
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no im under 18 and that is probably the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life....no one would ever phyically fight again just shoot eachother.
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i think its a pretty good idea.... but thats if everyone didnt break out into a shooting frenzy....
Statistically CCW holders are some of the safest and most law-abiding citizens out there. Supermarkets aren't turning into warzones...neither will a college campus.

Quote:
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true but think, you cant just issue everyone a gun then expect them to know how to use it, or when the time comes that they need to if they even would THINK to pull their gun and use it effectively.
We aren't talking about issuing guns, we are talking about the people that ALREADY legally carry a firearm everywhere else and how they should not be stripped of their ability to defend themselves on a campus. We aren't talking about highschool kids either, they can't get a CCW.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:49 PM #62
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i think metal detectors should be put up at all schools before you allow students to carry guns.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:57 PM #63
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I'm 100% for it; would pretty much eliminate school shootings.

However I think it should require an additional permit with a CCW.

Moved to politics.
You really think it would eliminate school shootings? I highly doubt that. If someone is going to shoot up a school usually they end up killing themselves afterwards so it really doesn't even matter to them if someone has a gun.

I support CCW for the public but I don't want it on my college campus. I'll take my chances with someone shooting up the school. I along with thousands of other students go to class everyday without a problem, I'll take my chances.
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