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Old 02-26-2008, 05:06 PM #43
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Originally Posted by Atmosfearballer View Post
That is the most rediculous thing I ever heard! I would much rather play 30 rookie teams than the top 3 D2 teams.
Then by all means, do it. Do novice if you can't be a ringer for a D4 team. I'm not stopping you.

But, I'd MUCH rather take the top 3 D2 teams. Why? Guaranteed money payout then. 30 rookies teams anything can happen, the best of the best have off days too
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:25 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2ol0st View Post
I think everyone is happy with cash as there prizes there is no question about that, its just some are wondering why xball does not get as good of a return as 5 man.

Side note say you win 2 events does that mean you can have cup paid for?
- or you somehow win 1/2 off cup twice this season... is that a fully paid entry to cup?
I asked this question last year and the answer was: NO. It could have changed this year, but I don't think it would have.

The reason I was told was so that you would attend 2 events at half the entry fee instead of just one event at full entry discount. This increases attendance numbers for the league.
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:32 PM #45
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Originally Posted by pfnpb2x View Post
Then by all means, do it. Do novice if you can't be a ringer for a D4 team. I'm not stopping you.

But, I'd MUCH rather take the top 3 D2 teams. Why? Guaranteed money payout then. 30 rookies teams anything can happen, the best of the best have off days too
You understood what I was saying Ryan, don't be sarcastic. Point is, until you play anything above the rookie level, you have no idea what "Harder to Win" means. It has NOTHING to do with the amount of teams in a division. It has EVERYTHING to do with the skill level of the players you play against.

Everyone has off days, you are right, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then, but that doesn't mean the squirrel will feast like a king everyday!!!
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Old 02-26-2008, 05:50 PM #46
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Charles, just keep responding. You are taking the words right out of my mouth.
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:02 PM #47
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lol
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:17 PM #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONEdollar View Post
G5. Hang it

if your playing paintball for the prizes then you need to stop playing. Cash prizes just help teams play more paintball for less money. No team is making money by playing cfoa. If you do win an event it will help cover the costs of that event + possibly the costs of the next event.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Good job, ONEdollar.
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:46 PM #49
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I don't even know how to respond to you $InTheBank so I just say it like this:

A fairly new to the sport rookie team has no business getting better prize payouts than a team who has put in their time and effort for years at a higher level. The system is flawed and needs to be reworked.

I play at a higher level(Even though I suck), pay more $, and have much more dedication (which is shown with my years of service to and within this league and others) and in return should be rewarded for my efforts when my team does well. Instead, the teams who get the better payouts per dollar spent are the newer teams with less than what, 2-3 years in the league? That is wrong on so many levels I just don't even want to explain.

Every sport has a tiered system of pay, the higher you play, the more prize/salary you make. I am at the highest level the CFOA offers and our prize payouts are not indicative of this method of structure at all.

I am sorry if I come across brash, arrogant, naive, or any other adjective you want to describe me with. I can't help that I feel the way I do about it, but I know that I am not in the minority with my feelings. I have not said one thing in here offensive to anybody, but you can ask anyone who knows me, I am a pretty outspoken person. If you feel like you would like to discuss your feelings more, please send me a PM or find me at the next 5 man or Xball and I would be glad to sit down, over a beer(or 12) of course, and talk about it. I love debates!!

Take that $$ to the bank bro!

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Old 02-26-2008, 07:57 PM #50
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My response to ONEdollar - Your quote: No team is making money by playing cfoa. If you do win an event it will help cover the costs of that event + possibly the costs of the next event.

That statement right there infers that teams can and do MAKE money playing events. If you pay $900 entry and paint to play and your prize for 1st place is $1250, you just made, after expenses, $350. I don't see how that is debatable.

I'll say it again - I don't play for the prizes, heck I don't even see them when we win them, but when a d5 team can play and finish in the black by placing 1st, why is it not the same for a D2 team? Is that not unjust? Does that not make you think twice about wanting to play a higher division? Why would you want to pay 3 times or more as much to play and get far less prizes? Not exactly a catchy way to attract teams.
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Old 02-26-2008, 08:03 PM #51
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How about this instead? We go back to gift certificates that will take 3-5 months to redeem, for well under their retail value.

Some players complained about prizes so we gave you more prizes, to the point that we couldn't fit them all in two trailers, Larry's garage, my truck and a warehouse. That didn't work so I started with gift certificates from our generous sponsors instead. Then some of you guys complained about not being able to get your certificates redeemed in a timely fashion, and started selling your prizes to make the money you need to play more paintball. So we decided heck with that and just gave you the cash you wanted and needed instead. Now some of you complain about that.

When did paintball stop being about playing paintball and start being about the prizes? I want to reward the teams that place and win in our divisions as best as I can and am doing so thanks to our amazing sponsors, but come on: playing regional, divisional paintball and expecting to make money is a flawed business model on many levels.

Bottom line is that we're going to reward our valued customers the best we can, with what they need the most to keep playing; cash. Are we perfect in how we're doing that? Probably not, considering it's our "first time" (insert whatever jokes you care to). We're constantly going to try to make this better for everyone, but most everyone I spoke with was perfectly happy and in some cases overjoyed with what they won. So to those unhappy with what they won, it's real simple: play better, move up, win more. But beware; those costs are higher up there. So if you're playing this game to make money, you might need to reexamine your business plan.

Thanks to all the teams that played CFOA XBall 1 and the Dirty South Open. A very humble thanks to our Platinum Sponsors: KEE Action Sports, DXS and Dye Precision, to our Gold sponsors NXe, Spyder, Planet Eclipse, Smart Parts, XO and Severe and to our vendors, Paintball Central, DerDer, Planet Eclipse and Paintball Kingdom. See everyone at the next one, where we'll write even more checks to the winners.
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:03 AM #52
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I asked this question last year and the answer was: NO. It could have changed this year, but I don't think it would have.

The reason I was told was so that you would attend 2 events at half the entry fee instead of just one event at full entry discount. This increases attendance numbers for the league.
I think the question is worth revisiting this year because the 1/2 off is not to another CFOA event, or even random PSP events...it's ONLY world cup entry. So if you win that twice, you should get to hit up Orlando for free...and you should also have to look at the camera on the way off the field and scream: "I'M GOING TO DISNEY WORLD!!!"
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:55 AM #53
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I think the question is worth revisiting this year because the 1/2 off is not to another CFOA event, or even random PSP events...it's ONLY world cup entry. So if you win that twice, you should get to hit up Orlando for free...and you should also have to look at the camera on the way off the field and scream: "I'M GOING TO DISNEY WORLD!!!"
Thats what I was getting at. But I remember a few years ago end of the season prize was paint and entry to world cup if I remember correctly... 05 maybe?

But what if it comes down near end of season with only cup left and you win a second time. Well you saved your half off for cup and this leaves you with a second one. Maybe sell it to a team IDK but if Larry or Josh could clear that up this would be helpful.

This scenario might not happen and more then likely wont but its just a what if deal
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:40 AM #54
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I don't think anybody could have said that any better!!

And the lower division or more teams in a different format argument doesn't fit this argument at all.

The point is, payouts should be based upon their skill level and division, not how many teams they have in their division. It has been said before: Should D5 5 mans teams get more money in payout than NXL teams becasue they have 60 teams per event and the NXL has 12? The answer is no, because the attendance numbers should be irrelevant when factoring the cash distribution between divisions and formats. The sole determining factor here should be the level of dedication, skill, and organization it takes to compete at the highest level your individual series may offer.

I have said it many times before, and I still stand beside what I have said about not personally caring about the prizes, but I have heard alot of stink about the cash distribution from many people and I too am left to wonder why it is the way it is. But truthfully, I'll still play regardless, because I love the format and this series and would not trade it and all the memories I get from it for anything else.

Can't wait for Xball #2

We'll be gunnin' for that #1 spot this time Collin!!!
I am quoting you every time some beginner/rookie/D5/D6 team claims they deserve more prizes than the Pros because their division pays in more entry fees.

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Old 02-27-2008, 01:46 AM #55
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I can comfortably say that if I were to choose a format, I'd play XBall. You get way more bang for your buck there. Maybe the prize payout isn't as "good" compared to costs - I haven't done the math yet so I can't tell you one way or the other - but if your goal is to play the best format out there, XBall is where it's at.

Now, if you're playing paintball to make money at it, then you should be playing Pro. And if you're not playing Pro, and you're one of the 4 teams that can actually place top-4 on a regular basis at a 5-man event, then maybe you should skip X-Ball for 5-man. But I think for 99% of the teams, what the prize payout is matters absolutely nothing as far as whether XBall or 5-man is the right division for you.

Keep in mind that along to comparing prize payouts, you might also want to compare the number of games played in an XBall event vs. number of games played in a 5-man event. A 5-man team only plays 30 'player-games', while an XBall team, over 4 matches, will play at LEAST 100 player-games, and probably more.

As far as the PSP entry fee goes, I'll try and find out whether you can double-up two half-off entry fees for a full entry fee. As long as NOBODY tries to hold this against me in the future, I would expect that you would be able to, but I don't know the details of any PSP-CFOA arrangement at present and could very well be mistaken.

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Old 02-27-2008, 07:13 AM #56
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Raehl - I can't believe that you somewhat agree with me on some of my points! I know some of the kids and adults at times can put you in a long spin of debate on here and I am glad I didn't get caught up in that.

I also couldn't agree more with you about Xball being the premier format and best bang for the buck. I love Xball and I love our series and everything that Larry and the CFOA staff does for us, I am just a little uneasy about the cash distribution is all. But make no mistake, the cash really means little in the scheme of things, because whether I played for 100 sets of grillz or $2000, I am still gonna play every Xball event this year and be absolutely happy doing so. I prefer this series over any other, solely because my paintball career began here and I have known everybody associated with the staff for years and I feel right at home every time I play.
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:18 AM #57
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Quote:
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Thats what I was getting at. But I remember a few years ago end of the season prize was paint and entry to world cup if I remember correctly... 05 maybe?

But what if it comes down near end of season with only cup left and you win a second time. Well you saved your half off for cup and this leaves you with a second one. Maybe sell it to a team IDK but if Larry or Josh could clear that up this would be helpful.

This scenario might not happen and more then likely wont but its just a what if deal
I was told the entries were non-transferable.

But Chris Raehl is looking into the matter and will be the best, most reliable person (besides Larry or Josh) to answer your question.

Hold tight and someone with a more definitive answer will get back with you.
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:41 AM #58
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Old 02-27-2008, 07:55 AM #59
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:06 AM #60
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lol. I will have to answer this one in private. See you in Rock Hill.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:21 AM #61
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Cash rules when it is split up proportionally.

My opinion is that the lower division teams are getting way too much and the upper division teams not nearly enough.

Of course the D4 and D3 5-man guys are happy! The winners in those divisions and formats are coming out ahead, while the Xball players are not even remotely close to breaking even after putting it all on the line to win.

The cash dispersements make no sense at all. If you play, or have played both, you would understand.

Call it *****ing if you must, but the only way to affect change is to voice ones opinion.

Josh said it best himself: If you want more money, play harder and bump up! But where is the money in the upper divisions? We are already there and don't see it. There is no incentive at all. All I see is less ROI. There is no business plan here for teams to adhere to. This is simple logics and how things "should" work and how one would assume the process works.

We, as teams (I use this loosely), don't expect a windfall when playing a tournament, just an even distribution based on divisions, of the total prize money available. This evidently did not happen here and I am somewhat disappointed.



For those who are reading this: The statements I make in this thread are my opinion, and mine alone. I am in no way speaking on behalf of my team Dark Carnival, but rather myself and my own opinion. I have always and continue to use proper decorum when addressing individuals and representatives of teams and the CFOA Staff.
Maybe its because i havent been in tournament ball long enough or call it what you must but doesnt any hobby cost money ?? and so what if it costs to play ... granted the cost of xball is crazy but if you want to play bad enough then you will ... its supply and demand ... y cant ppl just play cause they love the game and not because they want money ????
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:50 AM #62
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Maybe its because i havent been in tournament ball long enough or call it what you must but doesnt any hobby cost money ?? and so what if it costs to play ... granted the cost of xball is crazy but if you want to play bad enough then you will ... its supply and demand ... y cant ppl just play cause they love the game and not because they want money ????
I'll use a rough analogy for illustrative purposes only so you understand what all of my posts are about, OK? I don't play for the money. Like I said before, when we win money/prizes, I don't even see it, so yeah. I would be happy if they just reduced the prizes in all divisions below D2 and used that extra money to help grow the series in whatever way they see fit,(pay the refs more, better ref lunches(sorry Larry, I had too), more equipment, more league promotion, more money in board members pockets, whatever!!). See what I am saying? Getting more money doesn't mean squat to me, its the principle that the gap should not be so close between the divisions and formats.

If you worked at a job for many, many years and made, oh lets say, $50,000 per year and a new guy came in with nowhere near your experience or dedication to the company and started his job at $51,000 per year, wouldn't you be pissed? Granted I just used a salary as my analogy instead of prizes, the principle is the same.

The newer players are not deserving of better payouts than the upper level guys. Period! No other series has a prize system like ours. The system is supposed to be tiered from very little prizes at the bottom, to incrementally better and larger prizes on your way to the top, so as to entice more teams to step up from year to year and help grow all divisions of the league and series.

Example - If I was a D3 Xball team and I knew the gap from D3 1st place and D2 1st place was $2000, even if I was a mediocre team, I would try to elevate my game in the off season and compete the next year for the larger prize in the D2 division. But since there is only a $300 gap, why would I risk moving up to play harder teams, when I can elevate my game and stay in the D3 division and probably have a much better chance of winning.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:27 AM #63
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sorry guys but the 1/2 off entry is a one time deal if you happen to win twice then you cant get it again it goes to the next in line so no free ride if you win twice or how many times you make the podium
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