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Old 02-16-2008, 12:48 PM #1
samh
 
 
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DM series

I've heard alot of bad stuff about Dye guns. I would really like to know whats so wrong with them?
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:59 PM #2
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you are asking us if you want to know what's wrong with them?
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:05 PM #3
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what did you hear. i cant find anything bad about them besides they are pricey.
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:08 PM #4
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yeah one bad thing about them... price....?
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:08 PM #5
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Only thing would have to be price lol.. But quality isnt cheap
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:08 PM #6
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I've heard that there not really that reliable.And yes i want to know if there is anything wrong with them or not.
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:10 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samh View Post
I've heard that there not really that reliable.And yes i want to know if there is anything wrong with them or not.
Not reliable??

Thats a lie... DM's are honestly the most reliable gun out there..

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Old 02-16-2008, 01:37 PM #8
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Originally Posted by samh View Post
I've heard that there not really that reliable.And yes i want to know if there is anything wrong with them or not.
They are plenty reliable who ever told you that is an idiot. If you maintain the gun properly you will not have ONE problem with it and it will be as reliable as any gun out there.
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:38 PM #9
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Most DM's have problems caused mostly by operator error.
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:41 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok646 View Post
Not reliable??

Thats a lie... DM's are honestly the most reliable gun out there..

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DMS are not as reliable as other guns. they are far from tanks. you have to put working into them. expect to lube the bolt twice a month. in the cold expect problems. my pm7 runs amazing in the summer (dwell of 8, lpr is really low, no abs) in the winter i have to crank up my lpr to combat shootdown increase my dwell to 15 and upp the eye sensitivity. i also lube it after every day and sometimes during the day if i break enough paint and get shells in my bolt. im not the only one trust me 2 of my teamates have dye guns (dm4 and dm5) they have the same problems and most of the time theirs are worse. also the triggers can be bounce whores unlike opti switches. the ul frame bounces a bit and u have to set it up right where opti switches are less prone to bounce (which is why alot of non sponsered tourney players i see choose egos over trixs, or they shoot something else).
they are also far from tanks the self cleaning eyes on the dm7 doesnt work well, but i think they fixed it on the dm8. they also have poor air efficency. in the winter my pm7 (fully upped) gets 6 pods to a 45 68ci. thats the price you pay for a quiet and smooth gun. my etek gets 10 pods no problem and a hopper. my excal gets close to a case on a 68 45. my karni gets 10 pods no problem too. hell my evolved dm3 gets better efficency than my pm7.

dye matrixs arnt the end all to the gun world. are they the best, hell no. they are good. if you live in a warm place i would suggest it 100%. if you live and play in the cold and you also play back i would say get something else.

and as for the maintance heres a scenario that happens quite often and theres more like it with matrixs.
*edit
1. your gun has horrible first shot drop off. as in the first ball doesnt leave the barrel. you increase the abs and raise the dwell a bit so u dont break paint. next thing you know you upped the abs a bit too much and you blow your number 13 oring. you take your bolt out and put it back in clean the shells out and relube it. you lower the abs and decrease the dwell by one or two.
your guns works now awesome and chronos fine (who said dye guns cant work in the cold)
you get on the field and you start to rip and you get horrible shootdown. you go back to your bag and upp the lpr. what was once so smooth isnt so smooth because you have to combate the shootdown of your cold orings on your bolt.
you do that and your guns shoots with little to no shootdown but with more kick and less consistancy and less smoothness. WEhat was your once high end is now shooting like an ephinany due to the weather. o well summer is just around the corner.
and no im not ego biased the 3 guns i always shoot are (1. excal 2. wdp angel g7 3. wgp karni) my etek and proto and dm3 are just extras and loners.
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Last edited by yuik : 02-16-2008 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:23 PM #11
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ok well i cant explain how many thing i found wrong with everything everyone just said that was opposed to dye guns....

first off dont mention shot count- completely unrelated. its a trix. everyone knos they are bad on air. dont act like you dnt know, buy it and then get mad. if you dont know that they suck air when you buy it then you dont have the intelligence to use a 1000+ peice of equipment.

second, yuik, the reason your gun is having problems in cold etc is your settings- ie user error. dwell should never be that low or all the other settings you had were off. ok yeah in warm weather it will get more shots. but if the temp drops 20 degree one day you have to change your whole gun. THERE IS NO REASON TO STRAY FAR FROM STOCK SETTINGS. the gun will shoot good 100% of the time in any weather. my gun shoots exactly the same in 30 degree weather as it does in 110%. ITS CAUSE I DONT F**K WITH IT!

secondly, expect to lube it 2x a month? that is a joke. if you are mad about lubing it 2+ ties a month you should not be allowed to own a 1000+ peice of equpiment. i lube my bolt every time i shoot more than a case and play hard. i shoot less than a case and my gun isnt dirty, i lube it the next time. if you use TOP quality lube you shoud never have weahter issues or FSDO. use DOW 33 at the least, preferabley hater. my gun is always consistant and always works with no FSDO. ITS CAUSE I CARE FOR IT AND LEAVE ABS ON!!!!!

unreliable? like i said if you actually care for your gun like you should then it will not have leaks or break. if you want to lube it 2 times a month or less, then its gonna have issues. i have had my gun for 1+ years now and it has never leaked, never had broken seal, never needed to change a seal, etc etc. it actually shoots better than it did out of the box cause its broken in. sure i tuned the lpr a bit, lowered dwell maybe 1 ms. nothing extreme.

like others said, i would say 99% of issues are the user. if you have a problem wit anything i said then a trix is just not for you, go buy an ego. as for th rest f us, we are willing to put time and care in to our expensive equipment in order to have one of the smoothest shooting, lowest kick, highest performing guns made.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:24 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuik View Post
also the triggers can be bounce whores unlike opti switches. the ul frame bounces a bit and u have to set it up right where opti switches are less prone to bounce .
LO-****ing-L

I have yet to find a opto switch that *doesnt* bounce.

I can always find that little spot on the trigger where they will all go full auto for like 5-7 shots.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:27 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuik View Post
DMS are not as reliable as other guns. they are far from tanks. you have to put working into them. expect to lube the bolt twice a month. in the cold expect problems. my pm7 runs amazing in the summer (dwell of 8, lpr is really low, no abs) in the winter i have to crank up my lpr to combat shootdown increase my dwell to 15 and upp the eye sensitivity.

Use marmalade or something designed for winter.

i also lube it after every day and sometimes during the day if i break enough paint and get shells in my bolt. im not the only one trust me 2 of my teamates have dye guns (dm4 and dm5) they have the same problems and most of the time theirs are worse.

Again maintain your gun and you will have no problems.

also the triggers can be bounce whores unlike opti switches. the ul frame bounces a bit and u have to set it up right where opti switches are less prone to bounce (which is why alot of non sponsered tourney players i see choose egos over trixs, or they shoot something else).

The problem is a micro switch destroys opti for feel. Upping the debounce is well worth it for the feel of a microswtich. Not to mention i think opti bounces around the same as micro. Correct me if im wrong.


they are also far from tanks

Ok but the following doesnt support this point at all. They seem like they are built just as well or better than other highends...


the self cleaning eyes on the dm7 doesnt work well, but i think they fixed it on the dm8. they also have poor air efficency. in the winter my pm7 (fully upped) gets 6 pods to a 45 68ci.

Thats just something you may have to live with when you are shooting the smoothest gun on the market.


thats the price you pay for a quiet and smooth gun. my etek gets 10 pods no problem and a hopper. my excal gets close to a case on a 68 45. my karni gets 10 pods no problem too. hell my evolved dm3 gets better efficency than my pm7.

dye matrixs arnt the end all to the gun world. are they the best, hell no.

This is completely personal preferance. You cant just tell someone a gun isnt the best because you think it isnt...


they are good. if you live in a warm place i would suggest it 100%. if you live and play in the cold and you also play back i would say get something else.

Maintain it and it will serve you well. The back player point is probably the only usefull point you have made. But if you keep your gun in perfect condition and possibly put some parts in there to help efficiency it wont be a problem.

and as for the maintance heres a scenario that happens quite often and theres more like it with matrixs.
*edit
1. your gun has horrible first shot drop off. as in the first ball doesnt leave the barrel. you increase the abs and raise the dwell a bit so u dont break paint. next thing you know you upped the abs a bit too much and you blow your number 13 oring. you take your bolt out and put it back in clean the shells out and relube it. you lower the abs and decrease the dwell by one or two.
your guns works now awesome and chronos fine (who said dye guns cant work in the cold)
you get on the field and you start to rip and you get horrible shootdown. you go back to your bag and upp the lpr. what was once so smooth isnt so smooth because you have to combate the shootdown of your cold orings on your bolt.
you do that and your guns shoots with little to no shootdown but with more kick and less consistancy and less smoothness. WEhat was your once high end is now shooting like an ephinany due to the weather. o well summer is just around the corner.

Once again im going to bring up using the lube made for winter conditions and maintaining your gun. Not to mention knowing how to tune it correctly. It takes time to get the hang of it but it is definitly possible to tune it to shoot correctly in the conditions you described.


and no im not ego biased the 3 guns i always shoot are (1. excal 2. wdp angel g7 3. wgp karni) my etek and proto and dm3 are just extras and loners.
.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:34 PM #14
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:56 PM #15
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My Dm7 has been shooting great for approx year now (9 months) since I bought it and have put approx 20 cases into it. I would disagree with the eye tube not working....it works amazingly well for me, my reloader B crushed paint regularily before I got the magna kit and my DM7 wouldnt flinch and keep firing as the chamber was "wiped" by my bolt....now it required taking the bolt out and cleaning it after the game, but its simple, and it was loader error.

Honestly yes for effeciency....the Dm7 isnt great. It runs similar to my 04 speed, and pales in comparison to my buddy's viking. But feilds around my area and at touraments we get free air fills with stations in the staging area/outside the net. So its air consumption isnt an issue unless I decided one day to go play a Big Game for some reason.

In terms of it running, it isnt as nearly so "choosey" with paint as my speed was, and same goes with the viking. I attribute this to how smooth it runs. Afterall thats why most people buy DM's isnt it ?
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:34 PM #16
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the biggest downfall is the fellow matrix owners well actually it could be. i love the user error speeches to make up for product shortcommings.

efficency wise i have it all backcap, orange bolt, top hat ect the works. trust me your dm or pm will never get the efficency of a well tuned ego marq borg viking ect (or any poppet other than the a1).

as for tunning it in the winter. of course you can tune it to make it playable but come on guys be honest its not gunna shot as well as it did in the summer. now you can all post your bs but play i bet few of you play an entire day in sub 32 degree weather with your "well tuned matrixs". none of this 50 degree crap im talking where your halo or empire will crack paint just from pushing it into the feedneck where you have to use a faster revy apache or egg.

no eye covers is well built? design flaw if you ask me but w.e.

optis will never give you mechanical bounce from just the kick alone unless your trigger is made out of lead. there is no switch for it to bounce on. the recoil isnt enough to make 90% of optis move to engage the switch. (never got pulled once for bouncing on my karni or angel, i have gotten pulled a few times for my ul frame though).

dms arnt the smoothest guns on the planet. idk where you got that from. Why isnt a droid as smooth? heck im sure my excal could give most dms a run for their money smoothness wise and its not even a spooly. your statements have no facts.

listen you say that im wrong saying the dm isnt the best gun there is.
but by saying it is you are implying that no gun is better than it which is definitly false. Im sure there is a smoother gun than any trix, lighter gun, faster, more consitent, hell even more agg for whatever its worth. i think its impossible to say one gun is the best, it can be good or even great but the best is definitly a strong statement and probally impossible to prove. (the burden of proof is on the person sayings its the best)
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:41 PM #17
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my pmr works great in the cold
i had to relube 1 time the whole day in ~28* temps
i had no shootdown and chrono was +-4fps out of the box.
your dwell sounds REALLY low
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:49 PM #18
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Quote:
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my pmr works great in the cold
i had to relube 1 time the whole day in ~28* temps
i had no shootdown and chrono was +-4fps out of the box.
your dwell sounds REALLY low
Sit back read and learn.... you dont know enough to talk about dm's and your rail isnt even in the ball park. unplug your keyboard and just use the mouse for a while.
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Old 02-16-2008, 04:31 PM #19
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Yuik honestly i think it was kinda rude coming to this forum and bashing dye guns

im not a %100 but im pretty sure your dwellon your pm7 is way too low on my dm5 and dm6 they were always 18 microseconds like the manual said

and another thing seems kinda wierd.... if its that freaking cold why are you even playing outdoors? i dont know where your from but i know i live in ohio and theres indoor paintball arenas here

and if your playing out in the woods with friends why not make it fair and use a tippmann?

look people like poppets better and people like spools better its all about preference and feel

honestly once you get over the $1000 price tag all guns are designed to be high-end tournament markers and perform as such

its all about preference man

this forum is designed to help people out when there guns have problems not start flame wars

i think this thread was started by some little kid who needs to do some more research and i can tell by your grammatical errors that your responses were irrational

can a moderator close this thread please?
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Old 02-16-2008, 05:16 PM #20
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I bought a dm7 from a sponsored psp team not too long ago. Im sure it easily had more than 30 cases through it and after i cleaned it and lubed it... its brand new except for one little scratch on the hyper2. Oh and its broken in and shoots like SEX! Ill never shoot anything else.. im way to partial...if anything ... im complete? haha.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:42 PM #21
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I've never found anything wrong with the DMs (I can't say the same for PMs cuz I haven't shot them). The reason why most people hate DMs is because they require a little more maintenance than some other guns; exceptions are with the newer models like self-cleaning eyes ect. But if you clean your DM/PM regularly it will perform flawlessly and shoot smoother than a baby's ***
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