Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-28-2008, 09:53 PM #1
tvpduck
Off Constantly Duck
 
tvpduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: China Grove, NC.
tvpduck donated to help Peyton Trent
tvpduck owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
tvpduck supports Bob Gurnsey
HPA fill station question

Please don't slam me on this but I did check the stickies and did not find the answer to my question.

I am not a field owner, but I work at the field (i am an adult, 40 years old). I was asked by my field owner this question and it has stumped me to no end.

Almost all tourneys and some fields have a 'do it yourself' fill station for HPA. His question was, is this legal? Well, of course, I've seen this practice at many fields and at all tourneys. So, my answer to him was,"yes, of course." Well, he then tells me about fire departments and state laws that say you have to be certified to fill tanks, and that has got me to thinking maybe we are wrong (by the way, I live in North Carolina).

I don't want to give these crazies out there any reason to try to shut any of us down.

So, my question to you guys is; is the practice of having self serve HPA filling stations legal?

Thanks for any help you folks can give me on this.
__________________
Mike 'Duck' Burkhart
Captain "Off Constantly"
CFOA - Division 4
www.offconstantlypb.com

Predator Paintball - Salisbury / Valken Paintball
-We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
-I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant!
tvpduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 01-28-2008, 10:12 PM #2
ta2maki
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
This might be better asked in the air systems forum.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I think it is legal. There is nothing saying that you need to be 'certified'. As long as tanks are legal to be filled and filled accordingly(not just in hydro, but visually inspected at time of filling), it is fine. Besides where would one go for the certification?


My stance on this issue is that there should not be self fill stations for anybody to fill. There should be a certification process and licenses. There should be age restrictions. Also fines and penalties for illegal filling should be severe. Just going through pbn and reading all the misinformation slung back and forth, and knowing that these people regularly fill and mess with thier air systems really frightens me.
ta2maki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 10:15 PM #3
tvpduck
Off Constantly Duck
 
tvpduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: China Grove, NC.
tvpduck donated to help Peyton Trent
tvpduck owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
tvpduck supports Bob Gurnsey
I agree with that.
__________________
Mike 'Duck' Burkhart
Captain "Off Constantly"
CFOA - Division 4
www.offconstantlypb.com

Predator Paintball - Salisbury / Valken Paintball
-We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
-I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant!
tvpduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 10:32 PM #4
twoguyssports
 
 
twoguyssports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Haven, Indiana
There is no certification process where I live. We just call the welder supply house and they drop off the tanks, as long as the credit card works, they don't care.
twoguyssports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 11:19 PM #5
Delmarva Paintball
Collecting Nickles
 
Delmarva Paintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Virginia
 has been a member for 10 years
I have had self fill HPA for 6 years. There has never been a problem nor do I anticipate one. It is impossible for a customer to overfill a tank. It is impossible for a customer to fill a tank that is not secured to the whip.
Tanks are checked for hydro upon registration. Every customer gets shown how to use the station which takes about 30 seconds to demonstrate and is simple.
__________________
Coming Soon...
The Most Exciting Indoor Scenario Playing Field Ever!!!

www.TacticalAdventureGames.com
Delmarva Paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 11:27 PM #6
Delmarva Paintball
Collecting Nickles
 
Delmarva Paintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Virginia
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsplat13 View Post
any of u have a halo b
Huh?
__________________
Coming Soon...
The Most Exciting Indoor Scenario Playing Field Ever!!!

www.TacticalAdventureGames.com
Delmarva Paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 01:02 AM #7
WhiteRiverPaintball
Indiana's Largest Field
 
WhiteRiverPaintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Anderson, Indiana
WhiteRiverPaintball is playing at Living Legends V
WhiteRiverPaintball posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by ta2maki View Post
My stance on this issue is that there should not be self fill stations for anybody to fill. There should be a certification process and licenses. There should be age restrictions. Also fines and penalties for illegal filling should be severe. Just going through pbn and reading all the misinformation slung back and forth, and knowing that these people regularly fill and mess with thier air systems really frightens me.
Why stop there? Why shouldn't we do a gun registration system and check everyone's ID at registration to validate their age and ownership of gun?

How about forcing field owners to do a mandatory class on field safety? And requiring rigid regulations and inspections with fines?

How about requiring all players take a 1 hour safety class prior to play and jail any renegade paintballers that fail to take the class/certification?

...................

Once you go down the road of regulation, it gets really messy. And who do you think will run the regulated system? The government.... and they're a real fun bunch to deal with when it comes to paintball.
__________________
White River Paintball Field is over 100 acres of urban, woodsball and scenario paintball, located in the Indianapolis, Indiana metro area. WRP also features an on-site pro-shop, 10 acre camping area, epic scenario events and over a dozen playing fields including multiple aircraft, two-story towers, multi-acre city, forts, military vehicles, jungle huts, deep woods and more!

Upcoming Scenario Event Schedule:

* Blood Diamond - March 20th, 21st & 22nd, 2015 *
* Summer 2015 Scenario Event - July 17th, 18th & 19th, 2015 *
* Fall 2015 Scenario Event Theme Coming Soon! - November 13th, 14th & 15th 2015 *
Join us on Facebook
WhiteRiverPaintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 01:19 AM #8
Horizon
 
 
Horizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Horizon is a member of the Paintball Operators' Association
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRiverPaintball View Post
Why stop there? Why shouldn't we do a gun registration system and check everyone's ID at registration to validate their age and ownership of gun?

How about forcing field owners to do a mandatory class on field safety? And requiring rigid regulations and inspections with fines?

How about requiring all players take a 1 hour safety class prior to play and jail any renegade paintballers that fail to take the class/certification?

...................

Once you go down the road of regulation, it gets really messy. And who do you think will run the regulated system? The government.... and they're a real fun bunch to deal with when it comes to paintball.
Actually, I wouldn't mind most of those ideas. Jailtime for renegade players might be a little over the top though. I do think a real common sense test to be taken by anyone that wants to own a marker would be a good idea. These would be administered by certified stores. This would accomplish two important things. It would weed out many idiots that buy paintball guns on a whim just to do stupid stuff with them and it I think would also take the big chain stores out of the market as they wouldn't want the hassle of getting the store and their employees certified. That's why you don't see Walmart selling and filling Scuba tanks.

The problem is, if paintball ever gets enough bad publicity, it will be the government that will regulate it, and then it will get messy. That's the dilema the Scuba industry was facing in it's infancy (many years ago now) and realized that if they set up thier own regulatory body (PADI) and policed themselves, they could keep the government out of it. You see, the governement really doesn't want to add to its workload (and if they do, they charge for it in the forms of permits or licences). Also when the government starts regulating, they usually do it with a broad sword.
Horizon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 09:38 AM #9
Delmarva Paintball
Collecting Nickles
 
Delmarva Paintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Virginia
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
Actually, I wouldn't mind most of those ideas. Jailtime for renegade players might be a little over the top though. I do think a real common sense test to be taken by anyone that wants to own a marker would be a good idea. These would be administered by certified stores. This would accomplish two important things. It would weed out many idiots that buy paintball guns on a whim just to do stupid stuff with them and it I think would also take the big chain stores out of the market as they wouldn't want the hassle of getting the store and their employees certified. That's why you don't see Walmart selling and filling Scuba tanks.

The problem is, if paintball ever gets enough bad publicity, it will be the government that will regulate it, and then it will get messy. That's the dilema the Scuba industry was facing in it's infancy (many years ago now) and realized that if they set up thier own regulatory body (PADI) and policed themselves, they could keep the government out of it. You see, the governement really doesn't want to add to its workload (and if they do, they charge for it in the forms of permits or licences). Also when the government starts regulating, they usually do it with a broad sword.
Woww. Renier, Usually we are thinking right along the same lines. Not this time however. There are things far more dangerous to use than a paintball gun that don't need certification. It comes down to personal freedom and responsability. I am of the opinion that you do not limit my freedom until I have proven irresponsable with it... Not before.
__________________
Coming Soon...
The Most Exciting Indoor Scenario Playing Field Ever!!!

www.TacticalAdventureGames.com
Delmarva Paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 10:18 AM #10
Horizon
 
 
Horizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Horizon is a member of the Paintball Operators' Association
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmarva Paintball View Post
Woww. Renier, Usually we are thinking right along the same lines. Not this time however. There are things far more dangerous to use than a paintball gun that don't need certification. It comes down to personal freedom and responsability. I am of the opinion that you do not limit my freedom until I have proven irresponsable with it... Not before.
Oh, I'm not saying it's necessary. I agree, there are lots of other things that are more dangerous than paintball guns and filling and handling High Pressure Air and I'm not one to have freedoms taken away either (though Canadians tend to not get quite so bent out of shape as Americans over small inconveniences that might make our society safer in general). I don't know if it was necessary for the diving industry either, but it was a good idea, has kept the government from intervening and most importantly, has given the industry some credibility. The accredation program PADI has set up gives the industry structure. Sure there are still fly-by-nights and less than perfect retailers and dive tour operators, but all in all, it is a much more professional industry. First you have to jump through some hoops (theirs are a lot more stringent than paintballs' wopuld have to be), so you don't have every Tom, Dick, and Harry opening up stores and taking out and teaching diving, but there is also an association that can take your certification away if you're being an ***.

The paintball industry would be better off, in my opinion, with more structure and some power to do something about operators operating in an unsafe manner. One of my competitors advertises "Alcohol allowed" for instance and I don't think there is anything anyone can do about something like that.

If you weren't allowed to fill tanks for instance unless you knew the person getting the tank filled had some basic knowledge on safety (ie 300 fps maximum, goggle safety) would be a good thing.
Horizon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 10:32 AM #11
Delmarva Paintball
Collecting Nickles
 
Delmarva Paintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Virginia
 has been a member for 10 years
I will admit that the Diving industry has a very good model for the certification you are talking about. I don't think that the player in paintball needs a "C" card like a diver in scuba does but some sort of operator certification like the PADI 5 Star system might be nice. I could get along with it if it were voluntary. If it were run and organized correctly it could have a strong enough voice to guide the industry much like SCUBA but without being so strict.
__________________
Coming Soon...
The Most Exciting Indoor Scenario Playing Field Ever!!!

www.TacticalAdventureGames.com
Delmarva Paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 10:57 AM #12
Horizon
 
 
Horizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Horizon is a member of the Paintball Operators' Association
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmarva Paintball View Post
I will admit that the Diving industry has a very good model for the certification you are talking about. I don't think that the player in paintball needs a "C" card like a diver in scuba does but some sort of operator certification like the PADI 5 Star system might be nice. I could get along with it if it were voluntary. If it were run and organized correctly it could have a strong enough voice to guide the industry much like SCUBA but without being so strict.
I think it would be voluntary (I believe it is in the diving industry as well) but most "responsible" people would learn to only get their tanks filled and play at accredited stores and fields, businesses they knew had proper training and were run by certain standards set by the industry. Stores and fields that were't certified would get fewer customers and less "responsible" customers, thereby making it difficult for them to survive. However, getting certified would not be as difficult as it is in the diving industry. A simple one day course for fields would be sufficient, a three or four hour course for "air certification" (tank filling), and a simple written test (take about 3 minutes to write and maybe 1/2 an hour to study for, if you are starting from zero knowledge) for those wanting to buy their first marker.

I don't think it will ever happen because there would be too much resistance, but it would go a long way to save the industry, in my opinion.
Horizon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 11:19 AM #13
ta2maki
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
My point for player 'c' card is for filling the tank, not playing. For scuba, I think without the diving 'c' card you can't even get your tank filled. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to play. Many places have self fill stations, so whoever is filling should be knowledgeable in proper filling.


My opinion comes from this, I've been to a number of stores and fields where I, the customer, have to explain to the fill operator on safety or how to fill. This is for both HPA and CO2. Most places I go to will check hydrodates but won't look at the tank for damage. If they can see the date through the cover they wont take the cover off at all. I've heard many places don't even check hydro dates. It seems like this isn't a concern for many owners and it should be.
ta2maki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 11:55 AM #14
Horizon
 
 
Horizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Horizon is a member of the Paintball Operators' Association
Quote:
Originally Posted by ta2maki View Post
My point for player 'c' card is for filling the tank, not playing. For scuba, I think without the diving 'c' card you can't even get your tank filled. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to play. Many places have self fill stations, so whoever is filling should be knowledgeable in proper filling.


My opinion comes from this, I've been to a number of stores and fields where I, the customer, have to explain to the fill operator on safety or how to fill. This is for both HPA and CO2. Most places I go to will check hydrodates but won't look at the tank for damage. If they can see the date through the cover they wont take the cover off at all. I've heard many places don't even check hydro dates. It seems like this isn't a concern for many owners and it should be.
Yes, I agree on the accredation for someone filling a tank, but I would also have a simple certification for the person getting the tank filled (just like in the Scuba industry, but I would also have it for marker ownership - it can be the same certification process). Making it for playing would be way too hard to administrate anyway. Besides, you wouldn't expect rental players to have to be certified, but I do expect rental players to have to listen to a safety orientation given by a knowledgeable person. Something that an accredited field would obviously be expected to do. This would not eliminate "outlaw" paintball (actually it wouldn't really change it at all except for the fact that the players owning the markers and geting thier tank filled would have needed to prove that they have at least a very minimium understanding of safety rules. Whether they follow them or not, no one would know of course, bbut the same thing happens in the diving industry. Once the customer has left the diveshop, he/she is free to do whatever he wants but because they've had the training and have been stressed to do things right, most do, and the industry is better off for it. There are still accidents and deaths, but I'm sure far fewer if the whole diving industry were run as the paintball industry is (basically very little structure).
Horizon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 12:49 PM #15
Phantom Power
Pump Aficionado
 
Phantom Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: British Columbia
 has been a member for 10 years
I usually only lurk here in this forum, but this is an idea that has real merit. Being that most of the people here are (or should be) field and store owners, it seems an appropriate avenue to discuss it. The topic is especially poignant in light of the recent event at the Millenium series a few days ago (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2534185), and last year when a similar incident occured in the US.

It's scary how flippant paintball players are when it comes to compressed gas safety. I seriously think HPA is too dangerous a propellant to be used for paintball the way it is now. Especially 4500 systems. A 68ci tank filled to 4500psi has stored 34,573 Joules of energy. A SCUBA tank filled to 3000psi has 1,242,000 Joules of energy. That's as much energy as is stored in 300 grams of TNT, or 2 hand grenade's worth. And yet teenagers amped on adrenaline who are in a blazing hurry to make it out for the next game run up to the fill station and go through the filling process just as quick as possible.

One of the biggest mistakes I see all the time with people filling HPA is they just crank it open and let it equalize as fast as they can. This causes hot fills, and damages fill nipples since the pin slams against the back stop of the nipple (which is usually just a snap ring) at full force. A lot of players are slam filling their tanks to over tank rated pressure to compensate for the loss of pressure due to cooling. If you're filling your tank properly (ie, slowly) then it shouldn't get that warm.

I also think it's a good idea to have thick steel "fill cages" similar to the protective barriers used when SCBA equipment (that's the kind firefighters use, not SCUBA which is dive gear) is filled and tested. Basically, a big steel bucket under the fill station that you put your tank into before the fill valve is opened. At least that way if there's a rupture the blast is mostly going to be directed upward and any flying chunks of shrapnel won't be zinging around at crotch height.

Now I'm switching gears here to a self-policed and run regulatory body for the industry. All the time on forums you see people saying that paintball needs to be come a main stream sport. Or, "If paintball gets on TV it'll really legitimize the sport", "If paintball gets in the olympics it'll lend credibility the sport". Those things aren't going to happen if the sport isn't already credible and professional. What would do more for the sports credibility would be to have an organization like PADI. A governing body that sets some kind of guidelines for the way things should be run in regards to safety and conduct, and then approves those fields and stores who adhere to said guidelines.

As was mentioned earlier, if paintball keeps going down the road it's on now and accidents with gas filling and paintball vandalism (not to mention assault) keep up their trends eventually the government WILL step in and make laws that affect us. It won't be paintballers making those laws, it'll be bueraucrats who don't give a crap. You can bet your sweet behind it won't be voluntary either, and knowing government certification it won't be cheap.
Phantom Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 07:20 PM #16
WhiteRiverPaintball
Indiana's Largest Field
 
WhiteRiverPaintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Anderson, Indiana
WhiteRiverPaintball is playing at Living Legends V
WhiteRiverPaintball posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Power View Post
I usually only lurk here in this forum, but this is an idea that has real merit. Being that most of the people here are (or should be) field and store owners, it seems an appropriate avenue to discuss it. The topic is especially poignant in light of the recent event at the Millenium series a few days ago (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2534185), and last year when a similar incident occured in the US.

It's scary how flippant paintball players are when it comes to compressed gas safety. I seriously think HPA is too dangerous a propellant to be used for paintball the way it is now. Especially 4500 systems. A 68ci tank filled to 4500psi has stored 34,573 Joules of energy. A SCUBA tank filled to 3000psi has 1,242,000 Joules of energy. That's as much energy as is stored in 300 grams of TNT, or 2 hand grenade's worth. And yet teenagers amped on adrenaline who are in a blazing hurry to make it out for the next game run up to the fill station and go through the filling process just as quick as possible.

One of the biggest mistakes I see all the time with people filling HPA is they just crank it open and let it equalize as fast as they can. This causes hot fills, and damages fill nipples since the pin slams against the back stop of the nipple (which is usually just a snap ring) at full force. A lot of players are slam filling their tanks to over tank rated pressure to compensate for the loss of pressure due to cooling. If you're filling your tank properly (ie, slowly) then it shouldn't get that warm.

I also think it's a good idea to have thick steel "fill cages" similar to the protective barriers used when SCBA equipment (that's the kind firefighters use, not SCUBA which is dive gear) is filled and tested. Basically, a big steel bucket under the fill station that you put your tank into before the fill valve is opened. At least that way if there's a rupture the blast is mostly going to be directed upward and any flying chunks of shrapnel won't be zinging around at crotch height.

Now I'm switching gears here to a self-policed and run regulatory body for the industry. All the time on forums you see people saying that paintball needs to be come a main stream sport. Or, "If paintball gets on TV it'll really legitimize the sport", "If paintball gets in the olympics it'll lend credibility the sport". Those things aren't going to happen if the sport isn't already credible and professional. What would do more for the sports credibility would be to have an organization like PADI. A governing body that sets some kind of guidelines for the way things should be run in regards to safety and conduct, and then approves those fields and stores who adhere to said guidelines.

As was mentioned earlier, if paintball keeps going down the road it's on now and accidents with gas filling and paintball vandalism (not to mention assault) keep up their trends eventually the government WILL step in and make laws that affect us. It won't be paintballers making those laws, it'll be bueraucrats who don't give a crap. You can bet your sweet behind it won't be voluntary either, and knowing government certification it won't be cheap.
I understand your points, but such filling issues can be resolved quite easily with the following steps:

1. Use bauer fill couplers with check valves to totally eliminate fill whip accidents
2. Only allow 3000 psi fills on self-service fill stations - 4500 psi must be done over the counter
3. Use Kalibur (or similar design) fill stations that have small apertures to prevent flash filling

If you do the 3 above, then you've just eliminated 90% of the possible accidents and the other 10% is human error.

As far as the law stepping in, I don't see that happening in the United States here soon. One of the reasons is because of the NRA. If the government can regulate paintball guns to the point of strict control, it will set a precedent for heavily regulating firearms (seeing as they are lethal weapons).

Because our constitution explicitly states that we have the right to bear arms (or is it the right to arm bears...) I doubt that such things will happen before the ACLU and the NRA step in.

However, a self-policing regulatory body would be a great thing to have. Since we all have insurance (or most of us) then that would be the most logical route. If an insurance company said that THEY were the authority for insuring and certifying fields, then such a thing could be publicized to the manufacturers, teams, store/field owners, and public.

However, such an organization would then have a strong hand in paintball and fees and premiums would certainly go up.
__________________
White River Paintball Field is over 100 acres of urban, woodsball and scenario paintball, located in the Indianapolis, Indiana metro area. WRP also features an on-site pro-shop, 10 acre camping area, epic scenario events and over a dozen playing fields including multiple aircraft, two-story towers, multi-acre city, forts, military vehicles, jungle huts, deep woods and more!

Upcoming Scenario Event Schedule:

* Blood Diamond - March 20th, 21st & 22nd, 2015 *
* Summer 2015 Scenario Event - July 17th, 18th & 19th, 2015 *
* Fall 2015 Scenario Event Theme Coming Soon! - November 13th, 14th & 15th 2015 *
Join us on Facebook
WhiteRiverPaintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 07:59 PM #17
TargetIndy
Electrifying
 
TargetIndy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Annual Supporting Member
TargetIndy is a founding member
TargetIndy is BST Legit
TargetIndy is an Ultimate field/store owner
TargetIndy is Immortal
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRiverPaintball View Post
As far as the law stepping in, I don't see that happening in the United States here soon. One of the reasons is because of the NRA. If the government can regulate paintball guns to the point of strict control, it will set a precedent for heavily regulating firearms (seeing as they are lethal weapons).

Because our constitution explicitly states that we have the right to bear arms (or is it the right to arm bears...) I doubt that such things will happen before the ACLU and the NRA step in.
Believe it or not, there's a sizable segment of NRA members who don't like paintball. Paintball goes against one of the main firearm safety rules--never point a gun at a person. The NRA really has no interest in getting involved with paintball.
__________________
SwapMyTank.com
Swap your used air tank for a brand new Ninja tank!

DoctorOring.com -- O-ring kits for baller's on a budget!
3 rebuilds $4.95 -- Boxed kits from $9.95

Paintball Indiana -- Indianapolis's Oldest Outdoor Paintball Field
TargetIndy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 03:08 AM #18
sartek
AirSystems HazMonkey
 
sartek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
sartek supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteRiverPaintball View Post
As far as the law stepping in, I don't see that happening in the United States here soon. One of the reasons is because of the NRA. If the government can regulate paintball guns to the point of strict control, it will set a precedent for heavily regulating firearms (seeing as they are lethal weapons).

Because our constitution explicitly states that we have the right to bear arms (or is it the right to arm bears...) I doubt that such things will happen before the ACLU and the NRA step in.
I understand your point of view, but there is a major point of contention. The BATF officially ruled that Paintball markers are not classified as firearms, which throws the second amendment out the window for any sort of protection. As it is, there are a LOT of cities/counties/municipalities around the country that are already heavily regulating the purchase and use of paintball markers to the point of resulting in arrest for firing one off on private property without having any paint in it.

This occured to my sister in ohio, she was working on her autococker in her kitchen with her patio door open. she was arrested for firing an air gun inside city limits while not at an approved firing range. The city code lumped slingshots, paintball markers, blowguns, and bb/pellet rifles together under "air guns"

Last edited by sartek : 01-31-2008 at 03:13 AM.
sartek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2008, 01:21 AM #19
WhiteRiverPaintball
Indiana's Largest Field
 
WhiteRiverPaintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Anderson, Indiana
WhiteRiverPaintball is playing at Living Legends V
WhiteRiverPaintball posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetIndy View Post
Believe it or not, there's a sizable segment of NRA members who don't like paintball. Paintball goes against one of the main firearm safety rules--never point a gun at a person. The NRA really has no interest in getting involved with paintball.
My point was more for the issue of a precedent. I can definitely see your point, and I can definitely see that the two are different.

A more interesting twist is that if paintball guns were classified as weapons, they WOULD be covered under the second amendment. However, I cannot see mom allowing little Johnny to go out and use weapons against his friends and vice versa.

But, when the government steps into an area for regulation, things usually get quite ugly and no one really wins. Self policing (if policing at all) is the way to go.
__________________
White River Paintball Field is over 100 acres of urban, woodsball and scenario paintball, located in the Indianapolis, Indiana metro area. WRP also features an on-site pro-shop, 10 acre camping area, epic scenario events and over a dozen playing fields including multiple aircraft, two-story towers, multi-acre city, forts, military vehicles, jungle huts, deep woods and more!

Upcoming Scenario Event Schedule:

* Blood Diamond - March 20th, 21st & 22nd, 2015 *
* Summer 2015 Scenario Event - July 17th, 18th & 19th, 2015 *
* Fall 2015 Scenario Event Theme Coming Soon! - November 13th, 14th & 15th 2015 *
Join us on Facebook
WhiteRiverPaintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 04:44 PM #20
tvpduck
Off Constantly Duck
 
tvpduck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: China Grove, NC.
tvpduck donated to help Peyton Trent
tvpduck owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
tvpduck supports Bob Gurnsey
Thanks guys but we sort of strayed from the question a little. The question is actually controlled by the DOT and I can not place my finger on the rule. There seems to be a rule that states only certified or qualified persons may fill HPA tanks or something to that effect.

Having self fill HPA stations would be in direct violation of that rule. Am I wrong or am I trying to apply the wrong rule to this situation?

I know there are some fields out there that have been doing this for years, I understand that, but that doesn't make it legal.

Surely, someone out there checked into this before installing your stations? I just want the rule so I can take it back to my field owner. He is worried about the legal aspect of it but in the mean time he is running himself crazy back and forth reffing games and filling tanks. I would like to take the rule to him that says customers can fill their own tanks.
__________________
Mike 'Duck' Burkhart
Captain "Off Constantly"
CFOA - Division 4
www.offconstantlypb.com

Predator Paintball - Salisbury / Valken Paintball
-We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
-I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant!
tvpduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2008, 10:08 PM #21
sartek
AirSystems HazMonkey
 
sartek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
sartek supports our troops
I think you're referring to 49CFR172.704, which governs hazmat training requirements for businesses.

There IS also a set of OSHA regulations covering cylinder filling operations that is much more restrictive. OSHA's regs are somewhere in 29CFR.

I am expecting an official reply from OSHA on the matter.

Last edited by sartek : 02-04-2008 at 10:11 PM.
sartek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump