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Old 01-29-2008, 03:42 PM #22
Animalm0ther3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
Wow, you're really breaking new ground here....Romney flipped on abortion? Wait till the people find out - he's finished!

Thanks for bringing this bold new issue to the debate
You missed the entire point of my post. Someone who doesn't flip flop is better than someone who DOES flip flop, right?
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:43 PM #23
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Originally Posted by JcKa View Post
I would never vote for him, just think he's the most deserving of the Republicans to get the nod (from a Republican's perspective), as he'd likely be the best one to bring them back down to earth.
Better than Ron Paul or is he too much of a "fringe candidate"?
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:46 PM #24
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Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3 View Post
Better than Ron Paul or is he too much of a "fringe candidate"?
While anyone can follow political ideology to the core, it's far more difficult to find realistic plans that can be pushed through the gridlock and still succeed. His goals are unachievable.

What do you want me to say? I sweat Paul because he stands up there and offers solutions that transcend reality?
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:52 PM #25
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But wouldn't you at least like a candidate to make it a goal to move towards those ideologies instead of continuing in the wrong direction? Everyone knows you can't get rid of the federal reserve, establish a gold standard, bring all the troops home, and get rid of the income tax overnight, but these are the things we should be striving for and Paul's the only one that has declared he's willing to do it. Therefore, he's the best candidate IMO.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:55 PM #26
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Ron Paul has good ideals like I have said before, but he is not well spoken and too radical to ever become the president of our country.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:56 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedzFacNum24 View Post
What he did say was that he knows more about military than he does about economics which shouldn't shock anyone because his entire career prior to politics was in the military.
Here is what McCain said:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editor...l?id=110007600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opinionjournal.com
On a broader range of economic issues, though, Mr. McCain readily departs from Reaganomics. His philosophy is best described as a work in progress. He is refreshingly blunt when he tell me: “I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated.
and here is another quote:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/..._its_abou.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston.com
Like Mike Huckabee, who joked recently that he “may not be the expert that some people are on foreign policy, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night,” McCain suggested to reporters Monday that American consumer culture offered a short cut to expertise. “The issue
of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,” McCain said. “I’ve got Greenspan’s book.”
Claiming that McCain never said he does not understand economics as well as he should is genuinely dishonest in the face of these recent quotes by McCain himself. I won't blame you if you do though, since McCain himself can't even own up to it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qLR1nts2Q4

This is more the kind of "straight talk" we get from the Clintons.

Quote:
If you'd actually do some research you would see McCain has a much better economic record than Romney. Massachusetts is in bad economic shape since Romney took over. McCain on the other hand has been the head of multiple economic senate comities.
I'd really, really like to see your "research" on this since McCain has NO economic record seeing as he has never actually managed an economy.

Where are you getting these talking points?

The senate is a lot different than actually governing an actual economy my friend, and there's a reason senators don't often get elected.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:58 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedzFacNum24 View Post
Actually no he hasn't been quoted saying "I know nothing about economics" that is a gross misquote. What he did say was that he knows more about military than he does about economics which shouldn't shock anyone because his entire career prior to politics was in the military. If you'd actually do some research you would see McCain has a much better economic record than Romney. Massachusetts is in bad economic shape since Romney took over. McCain on the other hand has been the head of multiple economic senate comities.
Some of John McCain's statements on economic policy.

"'The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should; I've got Greenspan's book."-December 2007, Sasha Issenberg reporting.

"I'm going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated."-Novemeber 2005, Wall Street Journal, Steve Moore reporting.

They aren't misquotes. John McCain really is an idiot when it comes to economic understanding.

Source: http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonath...onomic s.html
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/2...onomics-quote/
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:59 PM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProCarbinesRule! View Post
i dont know yet it depends on the 2 primary candidates.

i was making a statement on the wide support McCain seems to draw from.

I personally do not see any positives in him getting elected. i prefer a leader who will solve our current issues not continue them. we are near a recession if not already in it. our economy is a trillion plus in debt. id like to see a leader who will have some knowledge of the issue.

not to mention that a "100 years" war or occupation of iraq or any country for that matter seems rediculous as is to imperialistic policy we have adopted.
a trillion?!?!? hahaha, try over 9 trillion
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:00 PM #30
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Originally Posted by crfracer290 View Post
Ron Paul has good ideals like I have said before, but he is not well spoken and too radical to ever become the president of our country.
All I have to say to that is vote for who you think would have the best effect on America, don't pick from a list established by others.
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:01 PM #31
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My god, Swerve and I agree on something!
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:09 PM #32
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Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3 View Post
You missed the entire point of my post. Someone who doesn't flip flop is better than someone who DOES flip flop, right?
1) Flip-Flop implies that a position is changed once, then changed back again. Romney has changed his position on abortion or "flipped" but not "flopped" back.

2) Sometimes the most staunch advocates of a cause or those that did not espouse that cause to begin with, but found it in their own time and had the courage to embrace it. You can't just make blanketed generalized statements because we do not live in a black and white world.

Now I'll ask you a question. Somebody who is wrong on an issue but is too pridefull to admit their mistake and so continues to embrace it is better than somebody who can admit they were wrong or mistaken?

What is the purpose of political debate if not to win converts from the other side? Since you're an avid Ronbot, I'll use him as an example. If I were to take an objective look at Paul and become converted to his policies, does that make me "worse" in your eyes?
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:11 PM #33
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My god, Swerve and I agree on something!
wow, whaddya know!
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:22 PM #34
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Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
1) Flip-Flop implies that a position is changed once, then changed back again. Romney has changed his position on abortion or "flipped" but not "flopped" back.

2) Sometimes the most staunch advocates of a cause or those that did not espouse that cause to begin with, but found it in their own time and had the courage to embrace it. You can't just make blanketed generalized statements because we do not live in a black and white world.

Now I'll ask you a question. Somebody who is wrong on an issue but is too pridefull to admit their mistake and so continues to embrace it is better than somebody who can admit they were wrong or mistaken?

What is the purpose of political debate if not to win converts from the other side? Since you're an avid Ronbot, I'll use him as an example. If I were to take an objective look at Paul and become converted to his policies, does that make me "worse" in your eyes?
There is a lot of integrity in admitting your mistakes. Its just simply not as good as fighting the good fight (on the same side) for 25+ years. Of course its better to admit you were wrong than to have too much pride to admit mistakes. *cough*Bush But there are better scenarios, especially because it leaves the door open to him being a phony.

As far as Romney, I have my doubts as to whether or not he exactly changed his positions on social issues based on logic or debate. If you were to take a look at Paul and become a "Paulbot" overnight and started signwaving and canvassing and bashing Legacy and the neoconservatives in ST I would lose a lot of respect for you, lol. For one, it takes a whole new mindset to understand his philosophy of government and that doesn't happen overnight.
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:35 PM #35
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After today we will have two choices for a Republican nominee.

1) John McCain

2) Mitt Romney

Romney is accused of being willing to mold himself to a certain demographic to gain support there, and having "too good hair". The media has also been overly critical, hostile, dismissive, and openly biased towards Romney since the day he announced looking for anything they can possibly find to discredit him and yet he has not only remained un-sunk, but has pushed forwards and consistently gained support through all of this.

McCain is openly hostile to his own constituency, and refuses to apologize for any of the long list of serious offences he has made towards the conservative cause, and espouses liberal ideologies an pretty much every major issue out there except for arguably Iraq. The Main Stream Media has fawned over and loved McCain so much it's sickening to watch, has declared him the front runner from the start, and done everyhing imaginably possible to give him the benefit of the doubt for the past 7 or so years and McCain has not even been able to garner the same amount of support as he had in 2000 in any of the primary states, and we're supposed to believe he's going to be "electable" when the MSM finally turns on him in the General (and they WILL).

While Romney is at least doing his best to make himself acceptable in the eyes of Reagan Coalition Conservates such as myself, McCain is expecting me to suck it up and vote for him even though he is and has been openly and consitently stabbing my beliefs in the back for the past 8 years. In the worst case scenario of Romney actually being as bad of a flip-flopper as you guys make him out to be there's still a good chance that he will serve as a true conservative, and a that he intends on keeping the promises he is making now. With McCain I KNOW that he will stab me in the back and continue his smoke-room deals and above the people politics as he as been doing until now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3 View Post
As far as Romney, I have my doubts as to whether or not he exactly changed his positions on social issues based on logic or debate.
Fair enough.

Quote:
If you were to take a look at Paul and become a "Paulbot" overnight and started signwaving and canvassing and bashing Legacy and the neoconservatives in ST I would lose a lot of respect for you, lol. For one, it takes a whole new mindset to understand his philosophy of government and that doesn't happen overnight.
Why? I fully understand Paul and his stances on the issues based on his ideology, I just have not embraced it. Hypothetically speaking, were I to find some catalyst that stimulated me to take a second look and/or swallow my pride my views may change quite quickly. I think the problem would be if I changed, and then continued to change over and over again.
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:35 PM #36
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This belongs in the "McDonald's Canned Sandwich Names" subforum you ****ing ***.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:54 PM #37
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How about John McIwillBeYourRepublicanPresidentialCandidateAndWil lBePresidentOverAsillyDemocrat-ain.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:11 PM #38
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once again i will have to go to the polls to vote for the lesser of 2 evils when it comes time to vote for the POTUS. i don't like the top 3 Dem's and i sure as hell don't like John and Mit......once again a 2 party gov' robs the people of a good choice......
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:41 PM #39
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Originally Posted by turdfurgason View Post
once again i will have to go to the polls to vote for the lesser of 2 evils when it comes time to vote for the POTUS. i don't like the top 3 Dem's and i sure as hell don't like John and Mit......once again a 2 party gov' robs the people of a good choice......
Why?

That thought ^'right there'^ is what has kept things from being 'right'. "You FAIL", put your head down on your desk.

Do you have a factual reason for not liking Edwards or Dr. Paul?

I'm split between Edwards and Dr. Paul, cause they know what they are talking about and "no-one" has been able to discredit their past actions as public servants or find an issue they've flip-flopped on!

Well, if you ppl don't like honesty, I believe there are four or six other candidates.

I'd rather lose my vote than vote for someone you call "evil"!
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Old 01-30-2008, 02:09 AM #40
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once again i will have to go to the polls to vote for the lesser of 2 evils when it comes time to vote for the POTUS. i don't like the top 3 Dem's and i sure as hell don't like John and Mit......once again a 2 party gov' robs the people of a good choice......
It's one thing to not like a candidate personally or not completely trust a candidate, it's a far different thing voting for a candidate that you KNOW does not espouse any of your views because you think they're the "lesser" of two evils.

The "I want to beat the dems by electing my own dem" argument doesn't hold much water with me.
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Old 01-30-2008, 01:33 PM #41
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It's one thing to not like a candidate personally or not completely trust a candidate, it's a far different thing voting for a candidate that you KNOW does not espouse any of your views because you think they're the "lesser" of two evils.

The "I want to beat the dems by electing my own dem" argument doesn't hold much water with me.
McCain has and will always be more conservative than Obama or Hillary. So while I understand your antipathy regarding McCain, he's still NOT a democrat.
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Old 01-30-2008, 02:20 PM #42
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Spread the word, 'only hire based on economic reform models'. If a candidates economic policy does not show long-term stability and growth, voting for them is in a sense asking to be even poorer!

Some of you wont know that until it's to late.
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