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Old 01-28-2008, 02:57 PM #1
nathanjones008
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Flordia GOP vote

flordia get behind Romney tomorrow. I know he is not perfect. but is the the best we got. We need an washington outsider to bring about change! Mitt 08

Let us look at McCain’s conservative credentials:

-IMMIGRATION: he wrote the bill granting amnesty to illegal immigrants (co-sponsored by Ted Kennedy)
-SOCIAL SECURITY: he voted to give your social security money to illegal immigrants
-TAXES: he voted against the Bush tax cuts multiple times (he has since flip-flopped and has campaigned as a lifelong tax-cutter)
-RHETORIC: he routinely engages in Democratic class warfare against big companies in America, particularly the “evil” drug companies who research cures to debilitating diseases for a profit
-ECONOMY: as recently as December 2007 he admitted “he does not know the economy very well” and needed to get better at it
-1ST AMENDMENT: he wrote the McCain-Feingold campaign finance bill that was declared to be an unconstitutional infringement of the 1st Amendment (co-sponsored by ultra-liberal Democrat Russ Feingold)
-2ND AMENDMENT: he was called the “worst 2nd amendment candidate” by the president of the NRA
-ENERGY TAX: wrote a bill (co-sponsored by his buddy Lieberman) imposing a massive tax on energy which, according to the Department of Energy, would drastically raise the price of gasoline and put 300,000 Americans out of work
-GLOBAL WARMING: supports radical global warming legislation which involved him voting with every Democrat; think only America is responsible to take action, not other superpowers
-JUDGES: he joined forces with Democrats (Gang of 14) to block the Senate Republican’s attempt to confirm conservative, strict constructionist judges
-WAR ON TERROR: fought with Hillary Clinton to demand that terrorists be given a full American trial
-GAY MARRIAGE: he joined liberals to fight against a federal marriage amendment supporting the institution of traditional marriage
-CHRISTIANS: campaigning in 2000, he famously described Christian leaders as “agents of intolerance”
-PRO-LIFE: he filed an amicus brief against pro-life advocates in Wisconsin
-BI-PARTISANSHIP: he met with leading Democrats in 2004 to discuss the possibility of being John Kerry’s Vice-President
-PROFESSIONAL ETHICS: ringleader of the infamous Keating 5 ethical scandal which cost US tax payers $160 billion (Google it)
-PERSONAL ETHICS: McCain cheated on his first wife after she had a severe accident. He then divorced her and married his multi-millionaire mistress, whose daddy bought McCain a spot in the Congress

Last edited by nathanjones008 : 01-28-2008 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:10 PM #2
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After Florida ****ed up the 2000 vote they should have to sit this one out.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:11 PM #3
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Republicans are campaigning down in Florida, where most voters are in their 50s and 60s.

Or as John McCain calls them, the youth vote.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:14 PM #4
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To borrow a post about tax cuts from another board:
"Fact: Tax rebates are free for the government.
Fact: Giving people "rebates" who never paid into the system in the first place is just another form of welfare.
Fact: Tax rebates to the consumer do nothing to "stimulate the market" and in fact only hurt us in the long term
Tax rebates are a band-aid that politicians are handing out to a crying child who just fell off their bicycle so that they can get their vote again this year.
I'll go in order.
For every dollar spent by a consumer, how much of that dollar is paid back to the government in tax? The answer is close to all of it. They tax the consumer when they earn it, they tax the store's profits, maybe there's a sales tax in there, they tax the distributor's profits, they tax the producer's profits and everyone in between PLUS all of their employees that they have to pay. Money only comes from one place - the labor market. Any tax levied against the rich, evil corporations or any off "them" (just not me) is, in fact, a tax against you. Because of that, the government will take back every single penny of this rebate as it is spent. This is not a rebate, it's a loan. As soon as it's spent, the government takes it back. (and actually, they tax it if you keep it, too, just at a slower rate)
The tax rebates are 100% free for the government to give out.
To give money to people who never earned it with the logic that "well they're the ones who will spend it" is a bunch of socialist bull crap. See also: vote buying.
Since the government is going to take it all back, what makes you think that it's going to stimulate the economy? It won't. What will actually happen in the long run is that the economy will suffer because you're now providing people with real goods (which must be produced) in exchange for money that was never earned (at least partially - see socialism, above). What's going to happen when you force corporations to sell their products in exchange for having their workers not actually produce anything extra? There's two options - either we're going to produce more and give it away for free out of the kindness of our hearts because we know that it'll be good for "the economy" ... OR we're going to raise the prices on all other goods to make up for the loss. Which do you think is more likely?
Tax rebates will do absolutely nothing to improve the economy. I'm not saying I won't spend mine if I get it (which, I don't think I will), just that if we really wanted to fix the economy instead of just talking about fixing the economy, we'd cut taxes across the board so that the trickle-down effect actually favors the consumer.
As it stands, we've got a bunch of politicians that know somewhere between jack and crap about economics that are all trying to pay lip service to the 'common good' all the while skimming our money and our votes."
Then so far as Mitt's tax stance: He's notorious in MA for a reason. Like raising fees, including those on licenses to acquire firearms.
Economy: there's this glorious thing called a Cabinet. You know, where people discuss what the problems are and the heads of the departments make suggestions. Even George Washington listened to his advisers...
2nd Amendment: yeah, raise taxes, keep support up for the MA AWB, support the Brady Bill... oh wait, I'm thinking of Romney again.

Bipartisanship merely makes sure that one will be able to actually pass bills in Congress and do stuff. You may wish to look at how often divided government has failed to produce a "good" period in American history...

Just a few things. Nevermind that Romney supported pro-choice as governor of Ma, either.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:36 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnctaj View Post
To borrow a post about tax cuts from another board:
"Fact: Tax rebates are free for the government.
Fact: Giving people "rebates" who never paid into the system in the first place is just another form of welfare.
Fact: Tax rebates to the consumer do nothing to "stimulate the market" and in fact only hurt us in the long term
Tax rebates are a band-aid that politicians are handing out to a crying child who just fell off their bicycle so that they can get their vote again this year.
I'll go in order.
For every dollar spent by a consumer, how much of that dollar is paid back to the government in tax? The answer is close to all of it. They tax the consumer when they earn it, they tax the store's profits, maybe there's a sales tax in there, they tax the distributor's profits, they tax the producer's profits and everyone in between PLUS all of their employees that they have to pay. Money only comes from one place - the labor market. Any tax levied against the rich, evil corporations or any off "them" (just not me) is, in fact, a tax against you. Because of that, the government will take back every single penny of this rebate as it is spent. This is not a rebate, it's a loan. As soon as it's spent, the government takes it back. (and actually, they tax it if you keep it, too, just at a slower rate)
The tax rebates are 100% free for the government to give out.
To give money to people who never earned it with the logic that "well they're the ones who will spend it" is a bunch of socialist bull crap. See also: vote buying.
Since the government is going to take it all back, what makes you think that it's going to stimulate the economy? It won't. What will actually happen in the long run is that the economy will suffer because you're now providing people with real goods (which must be produced) in exchange for money that was never earned (at least partially - see socialism, above). What's going to happen when you force corporations to sell their products in exchange for having their workers not actually produce anything extra? There's two options - either we're going to produce more and give it away for free out of the kindness of our hearts because we know that it'll be good for "the economy" ... OR we're going to raise the prices on all other goods to make up for the loss. Which do you think is more likely?
Tax rebates will do absolutely nothing to improve the economy. I'm not saying I won't spend mine if I get it (which, I don't think I will), just that if we really wanted to fix the economy instead of just talking about fixing the economy, we'd cut taxes across the board so that the trickle-down effect actually favors the consumer.
As it stands, we've got a bunch of politicians that know somewhere between jack and crap about economics that are all trying to pay lip service to the 'common good' all the while skimming our money and our votes."
I don't know why or how you went into this (it seems fairly off topic), but it's also wrong. The tax rebates provide purchasing power, in the sense that tax payers have money that they previously didn't. It doesn't matter how much tax ends up getting paid back in the end, you still have the $1200 in increased income. By refunding a set amount of money, you're increasing someone's income, and decreasing the amount of taxes they paid in 2007. If you got a raise at work, would you say that it doesn't affect you because the government is going to collect it in taxes?

I agree that it shouldn't go to those who didn't pay taxes, because it is after all a rebate, and you should not be rebated more than you paid in. I also agree that making permanent tax cuts would be more efficient, but a short term tax rebate will also be benefitial.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:36 PM #6
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it should be cool. HDnet is filming coverage of the Florida Primary with Dan Rather at my school. I didnt get a seat though, however i did get a seat to the telecast on campus. Dan Rather will come by to answer our questions after the show which should be neat.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:28 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjones008 View Post
flordia get behind Romney tomorrow. I know he is not perfect. but is the the best we got. We need an washington outsider to bring about change! Mitt 08

Let us look at McCain’s conservative credentials:

-IMMIGRATION: he wrote the bill granting amnesty to illegal immigrants (co-sponsored by Ted Kennedy)
-SOCIAL SECURITY: he voted to give your social security money to illegal immigrants
-TAXES: he voted against the Bush tax cuts multiple times (he has since flip-flopped and has campaigned as a lifelong tax-cutter)
-RHETORIC: he routinely engages in Democratic class warfare against big companies in America, particularly the “evil” drug companies who research cures to debilitating diseases for a profit
-ECONOMY: as recently as December 2007 he admitted “he does not know the economy very well” and needed to get better at it
-1ST AMENDMENT: he wrote the McCain-Feingold campaign finance bill that was declared to be an unconstitutional infringement of the 1st Amendment (co-sponsored by ultra-liberal Democrat Russ Feingold)
-2ND AMENDMENT: he was called the “worst 2nd amendment candidate” by the president of the NRA
-ENERGY TAX: wrote a bill (co-sponsored by his buddy Lieberman) imposing a massive tax on energy which, according to the Department of Energy, would drastically raise the price of gasoline and put 300,000 Americans out of work
-GLOBAL WARMING: supports radical global warming legislation which involved him voting with every Democrat; think only America is responsible to take action, not other superpowers
-JUDGES: he joined forces with Democrats (Gang of 14) to block the Senate Republican’s attempt to confirm conservative, strict constructionist judges
-WAR ON TERROR: fought with Hillary Clinton to demand that terrorists be given a full American trial
-GAY MARRIAGE: he joined liberals to fight against a federal marriage amendment supporting the institution of traditional marriage
-CHRISTIANS: campaigning in 2000, he famously described Christian leaders as “agents of intolerance”
-PRO-LIFE: he filed an amicus brief against pro-life advocates in Wisconsin
-BI-PARTISANSHIP: he met with leading Democrats in 2004 to discuss the possibility of being John Kerry’s Vice-President
-PROFESSIONAL ETHICS: ringleader of the infamous Keating 5 ethical scandal which cost US tax payers $160 billion (Google it)
-PERSONAL ETHICS: McCain cheated on his first wife after she had a severe accident. He then divorced her and married his multi-millionaire mistress, whose daddy bought McCain a spot in the Congress
While I do admire that you are trying *hard* to campaign for Mitt Romney, I hope you realize that by posting this only about 50 people will read it, and all have made up their minds about who should be president long before the Florida primary.

Just my $.02
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:32 PM #8
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:50 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmike15 View Post
While I do admire that you are trying *hard* to campaign for Mitt Romney, I hope you realize that by posting this only about 50 people will read it, and all have made up their minds about who should be president long before the Florida primary.

Just my $.02

Fact. Many floridians and Americans are still undecided

Last edited by nathanjones008 : 01-28-2008 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:45 PM #10
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I don't care about the primaries as much as I care about the outcome of amendment one. Vote yes on one!
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:31 PM #11
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I would be fine with any of:
Romney
Paul
Maybe huckabee (Like his income tax idea)
for the republican nominee. All others are off their rocker.

On the Democratic Side, It is a two horse race, and

Obama>>>Hilary
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:56 PM #12
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Well of course I want Paul to take Florida, however if McCain takes it then Rudy drops it, guaranteed.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:58 PM #13
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Rudy has been all over Florida, I think he wasted a good chunk of his change doing so. If he doesn't win Florida he'll have to drop out because he's broke.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:12 PM #14
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Originally Posted by AR55 View Post
Rudy has been all over Florida, I think he wasted a good chunk of his change doing so. If he doesn't win Florida he'll have to drop out because he's broke.
Good, he's a moron for running he campaign that he did, and the loss that he will get tomorrow will reflect his stupidity.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:23 PM #15
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Your summary of McCain's stance on issues is not accurate at all. It is severely bias and taken completely out of context. Do some real research before you make stupid posts like that.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:54 PM #16
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I'd rather vote for Paul.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:12 PM #17
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We need Giulianni to stay in the race to split the vote and keep us from the bottom of the delegate race.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:17 PM #18
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I'd rather vote for Paul.
a vote for anybody but paul is a vote that has been thrown away
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:29 AM #19
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Old 01-29-2008, 09:24 AM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedzFacNum24 View Post
Your summary of McCain's stance on issues is not accurate at all. It is severely bias and taken completely out of context. Do some real research before you make stupid posts like that.
What is "stupid and taken out of context"?
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:39 AM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanjones008 View Post
Fact. Many floridians and Americans are still undecided
Protip: Your rhetoric on PBN won't do much for Romney when all you are doing is bashing McCain.

And by bashing a moderate candidate because of his moderate credentials, you are effectively driving away the majority of undecided voters. GG.
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