Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-26-2011, 10:18 PM #379
P0E (Banned)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
yoda - Semantics indeed. Kind of like "Most accurate marker ever developed". Technically it's true for nearly all markers.

Pressure controlled poppet is a good term for when a poppet (faceseal) is opened by gas pressure alone instead of the momentum of a mass. Maybe we should call all these spool guns "pressure controlled spool valves"? When someone uses a hammer to open one we could then just call it a spool valve?

Jack - In your opinion what is the "technical" difference between a spool and poppet? Seal, valve and/or 'gun system'?

If I understand you correctly... the reason you feel 'spool valve' would be a misleading label is because you feel it has different attributes than other markers labeled "spool valves"? If yes, I would love to know why. What specifically is different between this marker and the historical attributes of spool valve markers?

Categories are surely for the lazy, but when it comes to marketing they are a BIGGGGGG deal. Especially when 99.999% of your customer base is blissfully ignorant to the technical aspects of your product.

Speaking of bull **** adverts; could anyone PM me a link to additional information about Robbo's Ego Prime?
P0E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 10-27-2011, 02:07 AM #380
Lurker27
Engineering the Future
 
Lurker27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Annual Supporting Member
Lurker27 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Lurker27 posts videos on PbNation
Lurker27 has been published on the PbNation Youtube Channel
The point about historical characteristics is actually closer to the fusion of marketng and technical aspect than you may think. The defining characeristic of poppet systems for a while now have been momentum required to open the valve, which means the valve has natural dynamics. Spool valves have historically referred to metered dump systems, which the Etha seems to be, for most settings. Systems like the GEO2 have had natural dynamics added to the valving.

Going with all that, you'd expect to see higher efficiency from a class of poppet guns. I think there's also an expectation that a face seal is more reliable since the sealing force is actively provided, not based on o-ring crush.


The Etha, on these grounds, is more like a spool valve marker, and technically, it is one. All spool valves are pressure controlled.

Gun to my head I would call the Etha a "slaved spool blowforward" but as is obvious to everyone, these distinctions are entirely semantic
__________________
World's Best Hard-Parts Upgrades!
EigenBarrels, Mini, AXE, Intimidators, DM, Shocker
Lurker27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2011, 06:39 AM #381
brazy-u
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
 has been a member for 10 years






brazy-u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2011, 07:47 AM #382
Jack Wood
 
 
Jack Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Planet Eclipse, England
Annual Supporting Member
Jack Wood is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Jack Wood works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jack Wood owns a Planet Eclipse GSL
POE, I agree that categorization is very important in marketing. And that is why we shied away from calling it a spool valve gun. To the majority of consumers I believe a spool valve gun would constitute a gun where its gas release mechanism is directly tied to and part of the bolt actuation. Where the bolt slides off or over a seal placed radially inside or outside the bolt body itself. I also believe that a customer used to the current descriptions would struggle to understand why a "spool valve" marker would have a stainless steel spring return bolt. Maybe I am doing the consumer an injustice there but that is how I see it playing out in the thought process of most customers. Further more, we thought that calling the Etha a spool valve gun would also lead to people instinctively and incorrectly assuming that it was a reduced price version of a Geo (which actually reminds me, I'm sure we were pilloried for calling the Geo a spool valve gun rather than a blowforward at the time..). We already knew we would be fighting an uphill battle with people assuming it was a cut-price Geo.

As for the Prime thing, you need to speak to Robbo about that. That is not a PE product. I can see by your inference that you are suggesting that it is something to do with us...

Lurker, I agree with you that traditionally a poppet valve gun would have some knock-open element. A short throw operation. But a face seal is more reliable? Not in my experience. And the closer the poppet comes to being balanced (as is required in this application) the less reliable that seal becomes. Both in assembly and in the field we have far fewer issues with dump seals than we do with exhaust valve seals and faces. I suppose in a way the poppet reference in the Etha description was to try and portray that short throw movement that is inherent in those traditional poppet valve systems, but we tried to deliniate it by adding the pull term and then add the technical element of it being an actual spool shaft.

At the end of the day I personally have no issue calling this a spool valve gun. By common pneumatic (not common paintball) definition, the propellant is released from the firing chamber by means of a pressure controlled spool. There is no denying that. But I think that in calling it a spool valve gun you are in danger of further confusing an already confused customer base. Customers that often refer to sites such as zdspb.com for definitions. Definitions which would lead you to believe that this isn't actually a spool valve gun at all.

Like I said before, I think we need some kind of library of definitions.
Jack Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2011, 01:02 PM #383
P0E (Banned)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
natural dynamics? Please define since it sounds bombastic.

Is "metered dump" referring to the fixed volume between main valve and shutoff valve? What if there's no shutoff valve ..like DP's stuff?

Jack - So if I'm reading that correctly you feel most of your customers (who don't understand the technical difference between radial/face seal) define a "spool marker" as any marker that...
1. Has a bolt directly attached to the gas releasing seal
2. Said seal need also actuate the bolt (or bolt actuate seal?)

First, you're giving your customers too much credit. The question of "What's the difference" has been asked hundreds of times and it's not uncommon to see..
"Spools only have one tube."
"Just look for a battery cause poppets dont need electronics"
"Poppet guns hit the valve to launch the ball"

...or read posts in the Etha thread....
"The operation is very different to a geo. Thi is a spring returned push poppet, more similar to an axe than anything"
They just guess or regurgitate what they partially read.

The closest thing to a thought-out response has always been narrowed down to the type of MAIN seal (face vs radial). The Automag is commonly referred to as a spool due to the radial seal. Rarely ever stated as anything else. No one thought twice when the Phenom was defined as a spool. The Geo is commonly referred to as a blow forward spool valve.

Second, the Etha meets your criteria for a spool valve does it not?

I understand the fear of releasing an 'ecomomy' spool valve marker without it being something different. I know different sells and comparisons to others fitting a common bill will happen. Although as a consumer I prefer similar price point comparisons and cringe at name game implications. i.e Boost Bolt, Seal Forward, Linear Secondary Solenoid, closed valve spool, etc. What does this marker have over others in it's price range?

Now from a technical standpoint, what does it matter? The quantifiable metrics (price, efficiency, accuracy, etc) merely depend on how well the system is designed. These are the only important descriptors that should be listed unless you want to educate you customer on the correct technical nomenclature.

To be clear, my premises is that if you're going to place poppet in the description there should at least be something resembling what the general customer base understands as a poppet. An insignificant radially sealing valve stem that moves 6 times the distance of a typical poppet and could be replaced by a small hole is not close enough IMHO.

Note any implications between robbo and PE are unintentional. I just had his big ugly face and ridiculous claims staring at me in a banner advertisement while replying to these posts. ...and I need another product to pick at.

Could a mod move our discussion to the Etha thread so we don't tarnish Brazy's please?
P0E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2011, 03:37 PM #384
brazy-u
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
 has been a member for 10 years




brazy-u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2011, 05:12 PM #385
pbjosh
In February -
 
pbjosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
pbjosh is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
pbjosh works for a Paintball manufacturer
Ah, the Poppet vs. Spool argument. Considering Jack did a good job on an old design of mine I will throw my thoughts in on this, since I always considered it a spool valve gun.

First, the day job is Instrumentation and Controls – basically, the valves in an industrial situation. Poppet types valve have been around for a very long time. In fact, hundreds of years.

The normal definition of a poppet valve per Wikipedia:

“A poppet valve (also called mushroom valve[1]) is a valve consisting of a hole, usually round or oval, and a tapered plug, usually a disk shape on the end of a shaft”

For example they use valves of a car, or the Presta/Schrader valve as found in a tire.
These have a valve stem, the valve face (in the case of the car, it doesn’t even have a sealing material, just a metal seat) and a valve body.

The action of both is acted upon by an outside force- the car valve being moved by the force of a rotating cam shaft, the Schrader being moved and opened by the tire inflator or your finger.

As we use them in paintball terms, the poppet has a valve stem that runs through the valve body, a valve face with a soft seal, and a valve body. The valve is opened by an impact from a hammer/rammer and air is released. The hammer arrangement being similar to the cam shaft action.


A poppet is not defined by the sealing manner. It is defined by a face with a stem that passes through a body that is acted upon by the action of the back of the stem.


A spool is generally a hydraulic control valve, a cylinder in a case or housing that by moving it controls a separate item – Not quite by definition a valve like we use.

But, generally a spool valve doesn’t have a valve stem or face, and the action of the valve is in both directions. Look at the action of a 3/4-way switch on an Autococker, o-rings smoothly switching the action of the gun.


I cannot look at the action of the Etha and see a poppet valve stem, the poppet valve, or an outside item like a hammer acting upon it. Hence, I don’t classify it as a spool valve. I say exactly the same about a Mini/Axe. The action is spool valve all the way through, no hammer, no valve stem, just a sealing face like paintball use for poppets. But that is just a sealing face. Some poppet valves outside of paintball use an o-ring built similar to a spool type valve. Gland Valves are poppet action control valves that use an o-ring seal.

Now, if the bolt came forward and by contact pulled the seal off and let air though, the Mini could be a poppet. If by action the Etha bolt moved, then hit the spool, it could be a poppet. Neither would be very close to a traditional poppet, and due to lack of a valve face it would best be called a poppet action spool valve, since there would be direct action on a valve stem.

As is in both cases, they have a spool and the action lacking direct contact. These would better be described as a piloted spool action (pilot being for the solenoidvalve that cycles the spool.) The SLG would not be a pilot activated spool, but a directly activated off balance spool, like the Automag and similar. All, because of having a spool assembly, would be spool valves.

But a poppet valve can be a spool valve, a spool valve can be a poppet by these definitions.

The balanced valve that went into the Intimidators/Angel and by some definitions, the Impulse. Since the valve has both a stem, and a cylinder that acted as a spool to balance the end, and a valve body, and is activated by outside force, it would be both.

A spool valve like the recent non-Etha patent from Jack (application 2011/0088675) or Simon’s ‘Pull Poppets’ would be included. They have a spool action, but part of the spool is a valve body.

By some definitions, my stacked tube spool valve design would fit also, since the air routes around a valve face past a valve stem that sits in a valve body, but it lacks any outside action – the lower spool is all one piece.

I still call it a spool valve because, with my background, I see the action like a spool in a housing, instead of a valve in a valve body acted on by an outside force.

Clear as mud yet?

So(?):

A poppet action requires an outside force to activate it, has a valve body, a valve stem, and a valve face (normally a flat disc.)

A spool valve is a cylinder/spool/piston that cycles in a body to release air.

The ‘rammer’ on the Ego is a spool. It hits a poppet valve to activate. It is a poppet gun.

The ‘piston’ in the Etha is a spool, a cylinder that by piloted action moves to release air, and hence is a spool valve.

Any other thoughts? I will say, flat out, in the real world of valves and such:

The sealing surface of the poppet as the paintball world knows it, is in NO WAY the defining bit of a poppet valve. The most common valves in the world that are poppets have no sealing material, and just have a flat contact face. They only have 1 point of seal, and any movement beyond that is no seal.

Whereas spools are normally switches for hydraulic applications and can have allot of movement without unsealing.
__________________
"If you build it, they will run"

Colin @ Deadly wind: “We need to stay away from each other. You scare me.”

Owner of Patent #7610907: Paintball marker action assembly

Last edited by pbjosh : 10-27-2011 at 05:14 PM. Reason: cleaned up some wording
pbjosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2011, 05:12 PM #386
brazy-u
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
 has been a member for 10 years




brazy-u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2011, 05:34 PM #387
StrangeBalla55
bamcis
 
StrangeBalla55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Stuttgart
StrangeBalla55 donated to help Peyton Trent
StrangeBalla55 supports Sherwood Forest
still doing great work
__________________
LIBERTY

ShockerOG
DEEP SEA


or DEATH
StrangeBalla55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2011, 08:19 PM #388
brazy-u
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
 has been a member for 10 years





brazy-u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 04:22 AM #389
brazy-u
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
brazy-u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 05:26 AM #390
Jack Wood
 
 
Jack Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Planet Eclipse, England
Annual Supporting Member
Jack Wood is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Jack Wood works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jack Wood owns a Planet Eclipse GSL
Brazy,
You have put a circle around 2 parts:
The O-ring near the back is to stop the air leaking out of the firing chamber.
There is a hole in the bolt insert to prevent suction.
And on the joiner piece those are just flats machined into the threads.
Where did you get the parts from to make these models?
Jack

Google translate

Brazy,
vous avez mis un cercle autour de deux parties:
Le joint torique à l'arrière est d'arrêter la fuite d'air de la chambre de tir.
Il ya un trou dans l'insert de boulon pour empêcher d'aspiration.
Et sur la pièce menuisier ces pavillons sont juste usinées dans le filetage.
Où avez-vous les pièces de rendre ces modèles?
Jack

Thanks to POE and Josh.

I will go and change the text in the technical description on the Etha mini site. Changing it in the trailer vid is going to be a right royal pain in the *** and the guy that does that stuff isn't here at the moment so that is going to have to wait.

Jack
Jack Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 08:35 AM #391
brazy-u
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
salut mrs jack WOOD
tout d'abord je sui très admiratif de toutes les évolutions (que j'ai pu comprendre) que vous avez
apporté à tous vos modèles ces 3 dernières années

-la traduction à l'aide du web est dramatique, voir inutile dans le contexte du paintball
moi même étant médiocre dans les langues, je tente de communiquer avec les dessins et ce n'est pas forcément plus
efficace mais ça a fini par me caractériser
maintenant je vais tenter d'éclaircir mes interrogations sur l'ETHA (malgré la barrière des langues, en
espérant que la traduction vers l'anglais est plus efficace!)

sur la pièce bleu ciel quand je l'ai dessiné, j ai eu du mal à isoler les 2 voies de fuite probable
simultanément avec un seul joint. La seule solution que j'ai trouvé c'était de faire cette lèvre (que je
pointe avec mes flèches rose). J'ai eu raison ou pas? De même pour
le trou du bolt en jaune, je l'ai dessiné plutôt vers l'avant parce que j'avais du mal à croire qu'il
existait un outil capable de le percer à la verticale, vu le peu d'espace qu'il y avais pour
passer et travailler

-j'aimerais savoir si les nouveaux solenoide des ego SLR ont été dessiné et fabriqué par vous même?
-la purge du régulateur n'est elle pas trop dangereuse pour les GEO 2.1, s'il y a une fuite à ce même niveau, s'il y a une bouteille d'air de connectée
-j'ai encore 2 questions pour les modèles EGO que je vous poserais ultérieurement à l'aide de dessins

je modélise tous mes dessins à la levée en utilisant les images que je collecte sur la toile donc
rien d'officiel et surtout rien de vraiment fiable

j'aime ce genre de mecanique, je respecte enormément le travail de chacun et je tente en
reproduisant leurs moteurs, de mieux comprendre les lois de cette mecanique ,(pour affiner mes projets
virtuels )
parce que je ne suis absolument pas un ambitieux mais j'adore créer virtuellement c'est plus
rapide et moins contraignant, mais n'ayant aucune connaissances dans cette science j'ai tenté il y a quelques années
de glaner des règles et des lois de la mécanique des fluides via un autre support que le texte qui est
moins à ma portée que le dessin ,à l'aide de ce post (sans grand succès à vrai dire je l'avoue mais je dois admettre qu'une fois de plus je
n'étais pas très clair dans mes idées)



pour le luxe je n'ai pas compris ce qui maintient les 2 ressorts, j'ai l'impression que lorsque le bolt sera
en position avancée il pourrait se déloger (ca ne fait aucun doute que mrs Darryl TRENT à la solution
et j'aimerais la connaître)

merci et désolé pour le manque de clarté




salut mrs jack WOOD
tout d'abord je sui très admiratif de toutes les évolutions (que j'ai pu comprendre) que vous avez
apporté à tous vos modèles ces 3 dernières années


-la traduction à l'aide du web est dramatique, voir inutile dans le contexte du paintball
moi même étant médiocre dans les langues, je tente de communiquer avec les dessins et ce n'est pas forcément plus
efficace mais ça a fini par me caractériser
maintenant je vais tenter d'éclaircir mes interrogations sur l'ETHA (malgré la barrière des langues, en
espérant que la traduction vers l'anglais est plus efficace!)


sur la pièce bleu ciel quand je l'ai dessiné, j ai eu du mal à isoler les 2 voies de fuite probable
simultanément avec un seul joint. La seule solution que j'ai trouvé c'était de faire cette lèvre (que je
pointe avec mes flèches rose). J'ai eu raison ou pas? De même pour
le trou du bolt en jaune, je l'ai dessiné plutôt vers l'avant parce que j'avais du mal à croire qu'il
existait un outil capable de le percer à la verticale, vu le peu d'espace qu'il y avais pour
passer et travailler


-j'aimerais savoir si les nouveaux solenoide des ego SLR ont été dessiné et fabriqué par vous même?
-la purge du régulateur n'est elle pas trop dangereuse pour les GEO 2.1, s'il y a une fuite à ce même niveau, s'il y a une bouteille d'air de connectée
-j'ai encore 2 questions pour les modèles EGO que je vous poserais ultérieurement à l'aide de dessins


je modélise tous mes dessins à la levée en utilisant les images que je collecte sur la toile donc
rien d'officiel et surtout rien de vraiment fiable


j'aime ce genre de mecanique, je respecte enormément le travail de chacun et je tente en
reproduisant leurs moteurs, de mieux comprendre les lois de cette mecanique ,(pour affiner mes projets
virtuels )
parce que je ne suis absolument pas un ambitieux mais j'adore créer virtuellement c'est plus
rapide et moins contraignant, mais n'ayant aucune connaissances dans cette science j'ai tenté il y a quelques années
de glaner des règles et des lois de la mécanique des fluides via un autre support que le texte qui est
less to my scope as drawing, with this post (without success indeed I admit but I must admit that once more I)
(was not very clear in my ideas)




for the luxury I have not understood what keeps the 2 springs, I have the impression that when the bolt will be
in forward position he could to dislodge (ca is no doubt that Mrs. Darryl TRENT to the solution)
(and I would like to know)


Thank you and sorry for the lack of clarity
brazy-u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 01:53 PM #392
Cegasaturn
It's a Cute Little Bunny!
 
Cegasaturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Grad School
Brazy-u speaks!

Si tu veux, je peux traduire ton poste en anglais.
Everyone, if you want I can translate that all this evening. I've been following this thread since it started, and I feel that if you all have been keeping up with it too, you'll want to read his post.
Cegasaturn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 02:42 PM #393
FirePro84
Airsmith - Gun Tech
 
FirePro84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Vacaville, CA
Annual Supporting Member
FirePro84 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
FirePro84 plays in the USPL
FirePro84 owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
FirePro84 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
FirePro84 supports Empire
yes, please translate...i love reading the posts by these guys...it keeps me up to date and really helps me understand better what's going on in the markers that i'm working on every week.

new designs for markers have been showing up so frequently these past couple years that its becoming harder to keep up with how each individual system operates and how to repair them when things go wrong. seeing the schematics that brazy shows off helps me diagnose some of the more interesting problems i come across as its rare to see breakdowns that are this detailed and i can really see and understand how everything moves and interacts.

keep up the good work guys!

also, i agree, there needs to be a dictionary of terms to describe how these systems work...but seriously, the general public isnt going to care...just the tech junkies.
__________________
- Tim Firpo
- Tim@PaintballTek.com
- Owner and Airsmith at Paintball Tek
- Paintball Tek on FaceBook

- w w w . P a i n t b a l l T e k . c o m
FirePro84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 03:34 PM #394
Jack Wood
 
 
Jack Wood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Planet Eclipse, England
Annual Supporting Member
Jack Wood is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Jack Wood works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jack Wood owns a Planet Eclipse GSL
Salut Brazy,
La traduction n'est pas encore bien avec le web!
Tout d'abord, le sceau n'a pas besoin de bloquer deux voies de l'air. Le joint est seulement à empêcher l'air sortant à l'atmosphère. l'autre chemin n'est pas si important. cette voie ne doit être bloquée pendant la cuisson lorsque la bobine est poussé vers l'arrière. C'est seulement vers l'arrière pour 10-15ms. L'air ne peut pas aller au-delà toutes les discussions très rapidement. Seuls les très petite quantité d'air qui n'est pas important.
Sur le boulon Etha, au milieu de la culasse est une pièce seterate à l'extérieur de la culasse. Alors le petit trou est percé verticale dans l'insert boulon avant l'insert est monté à l'intérieur de la culasse.
Je ne comprends pas au sujet SLR solénoïde? Voulez-vous dire le solénoïde dans le Ego11? Ce solénoïde a été conçu par moi et MAC vannes. La traduction de l'électrovanne Geo2 n'était pas bon. Je ne comprends pas. Désolé.
Je pense que vous avez fait un travail incroyable de ces modèles si vous êtes simplement travailler à partir d'images sur le web. Très très impressionnant! Jack

Hi Brazy,
The translation is still not good with the web!!
First, the seal does not need to block 2 air paths. The seal is only to stop air coming out to atmosphere. the other path is not so important. this path only needs to be blocked during firing when the spool is pushed backwards. It is only backwards for 10-15ms. The air cannot get past all the threads very quickly. Only very small amount of air that is not important.
On the Etha bolt, the middle of the bolt is a seterate piece to the outside of the bolt. So the small hole is drilled vertical in the bolt insert before the insert is fitted to the inside of the bolt.
I do not understand about SLR solenoid? Do you mean the solenoid in the Ego11? That solenoid was designed by me and MAC valves.
The translation about the Geo2 solenoid was not good. I do not understand. Sorry.
I think you have done an amazing job of these models if you are just working from pictures on the web. Very Very impressive!
Jack
Jack Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 05:52 PM #395
brazy-u
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
salut Cegasaturn!
Effectivement ca serait cool pour tout le monde et surtout pour moi (qui ne suis pas capable de le faire)
brazy-u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 05:58 PM #396
PedroBR
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
this is the best thread ever.
PedroBR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2011, 10:52 PM #397
Cegasaturn
It's a Cute Little Bunny!
 
Cegasaturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Grad School
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazy-u View Post
salut mrs jack WOOD
tout d'abord je sui très admiratif de toutes les évolutions (que j'ai pu comprendre) que vous avez apporté à tous vos modèles ces 3 dernières années

Hello Mr. Jack Wood
To start, I greatly admire all the innovations (that I have been able to understand) that you have introduced to your markers in the last three years.


-la traduction à l'aide du web est dramatique, voir inutile dans le contexte du paintball
moi même étant médiocre dans les langues, je tente de communiquer avec les dessins et ce n'est pas forcément plus efficace mais ça a fini par me caractériser
maintenant je vais tenter d'éclaircir mes interrogations sur l'ETHA (malgré la barrière des langues, en espérant que la traduction vers l'anglais est plus efficace!)

Internet translating tools aren't great, and useless when it comes to discussing paintball. Since I am mediocre when it comes to languages, I try to communicate with these drawings. While not perhaps the most effective means, in the end it has characterised me. I will now try to clarify my questions regarding the ETHA (despite the language barrier, and hoping that translating into English works better!)(Translator's Note: I hope so too).

sur la pièce bleu ciel quand je l'ai dessiné, j ai eu du mal à isoler les 2 voies de fuite probable
simultanément avec un seul joint. La seule solution que j'ai trouvé c'était de faire cette lèvre (que je pointe avec mes flèches rose). J'ai eu raison ou pas? De même pour le trou du bolt en jaune, je l'ai dessiné plutôt vers l'avant parce que j'avais du mal à croire qu'il existait un outil capable de le percer à la verticale, vu le peu d'espace qu'il y avais pour passer et travailler

I had trouble isolating the two vent pathways simultaneously using one joint on the sky blue piece. The only solution I found was to have the lip (which I indicate with the pink arrows). Was this correct or not? I drew the yellow hole in the bolt more forwards since I had trouble believing that a tool existed capable of making it, seeing how little space there is to work there.

-j'aimerais savoir si les nouveaux solenoide des ego SLR ont été dessiné et fabriqué par vous même?
-la purge du régulateur n'est elle pas trop dangereuse pour les GEO 2.1, s'il y a une fuite à ce même niveau, s'il y a une bouteille d'air de connectée
-j'ai encore 2 questions pour les modèles EGO que je vous poserais ultérieurement à l'aide de dessins

-I'd like to know if the Ego SLR solenoids were designed and made in house?
-Is the regulator's purge system in the Geo 2.1 too dangerous? Particularly, if there is a leak in the reg, and if there's a tank connected. (Translator Note - not sure I got this quite right, not the most clear question)
-I have two more questions about EGOs that I will post later with the help of some pictures.


je modélise tous mes dessins à la levée en utilisant les images que je collecte sur la toile donc
rien d'officiel et surtout rien de vraiment fiable

I started modeling all of my designs with images I found online. So, nothing official, and definitely nothing reliable.

j'aime ce genre de mecanique, je respecte enormément le travail de chacun et je tente en
reproduisant leurs moteurs, de mieux comprendre les lois de cette mecanique ,(pour affiner mes projets
virtuels )
parce que je ne suis absolument pas un ambitieux mais j'adore créer virtuellement c'est plus
rapide et moins contraignant, mais n'ayant aucune connaissances dans cette science j'ai tenté il y a quelques années
de glaner des règles et des lois de la mécanique des fluides via un autre support que le texte qui est
moins à ma portée que le dessin ,à l'aide de ce post (sans grand succès à vrai dire je l'avoue mais je dois admettre qu'une fois de plus je
n'étais pas très clair dans mes idées)

I enjoy these systems (Translator's Note: wish I had a good word for this, but he means the mechanical systems in paintball markers), and I greatly respect the work that goes into each one. I try to virtually reproduce their internals to better understand how they work. While I am not an ambitious individual, I love creating things digitally, as it is both faster and less demanding. When I began, I had no knowledge of this field. I have tried for the last few years to glean more about the laws of fluid mechanics than what I can through text, which suit me less than these drawings (though even that seems to not have a great succes; I have to admit that they often weren't too clear).

pour le luxe je n'ai pas compris ce qui maintient les 2 ressorts, j'ai l'impression que lorsque le bolt sera
en position avancée il pourrait se déloger (ca ne fait aucun doute que mrs Darryl TRENT à la solution
et j'aimerais la connaître)

Regarding the Luxe, I never understood the two springs. The way I understand it, when the bolt is forwards, it could get dislodged (I am sure Mr. Darryl Trent has a solution/reason, and I'd like to know it).

merci et désolé pour le manque de clarté

Thanks, and sorry for the lack of clarity.
Well, there's my go at it. Sorry if it's a bit rough, I'm watching the Cards currently. Let me know if there's anything in particular you want me to go over again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brazy-u View Post
salut Cegasaturn!
Effectivement ca serait cool pour tout le monde et surtout pour moi (qui ne suis pas capable de le faire)
Brazy-u, c'etait avec plaisir. J'espere que je bien traduit! Et, continues a crees ces designs, ils sont absolument fantastique!
Une chose, ca fait plusieur années depuis que j'écrit en francais. Je besoins de pratique...
Cegasaturn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2011, 06:53 PM #398
brazy-u
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
énorme!!.. tu as vraiment assuré cegasaturn!
ca me fait vraiment plaisir merci beaucoup.










brazy-u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 03:43 AM #399
brazy-u
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
 has been a member for 10 years



brazy-u is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump