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Old 01-25-2008, 02:05 AM #22
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Originally Posted by Bunkered89 View Post
Meanwhile this Republican War has put us trillions in debt. See, I can be a party-loyal ignoramus too.
That is true......but at the end of the first Bush's term he did some good calls which when Clinton hit office he reaped the benefits of those calls and everybody thinks he was doing a great job...and the National Debt was going down.

"The Media makes everything about Politics....Republican and Democrat..Well, Heres politics for ya..Cheney shot his friend in the back....Clinton shot his intern in the face...........Git r done!"----Larry the Cable Guy....
(I just love that quote)
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:17 AM #23
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so you're saying the party that got us 9 trillion dollars in debt is the one we should trust?
Vs. one that will try and again destroy consumer confidance and send us back around the loop? Sure.

Since this isn't fantasyland and I can't get perfect people, I'll settle for people who don't preach the return of something that was JUST (I mean what, 3 months ago?) shown to destroy market confidence and lead to financial instability.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:41 AM #24
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Vs. one that will try and again destroy consumer confidance and send us back around the loop? Sure.

Since this isn't fantasyland and I can't get perfect people, I'll settle for people who don't preach the return of something that was JUST (I mean what, 3 months ago?) shown to destroy market confidence and lead to financial instability.
Somehow I doubt they are actively trying to destroy consumer confidence.
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:41 AM #25
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Somehow I doubt they are actively trying to destroy consumer confidence.
No, just through inept policy and support of ideas WHICH DON'T WORK. Whats funnier is that this guy is specifically pandering to the minority/poor vote with something which has shown to really destroy that specific demographics credit and savings.
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Old 01-25-2008, 08:56 AM #26
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Originally Posted by Bunkered89 View Post
Let's demean someone because they are in high school.
I think they are demeaning you because you said something stupid.


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You have to remember that everyone in congress was told by the Central Intelligence Agency that Iraq had WMD.

Now since the CIA is an agency we would assume to be highly professional and trustworthy, we would therefore assume we could trust that it is indeed a "slam dunk".


I don't think you can fault your political opponets for voting for something because you told them they were all going to die if they didn't.
Don't forget to mention that a number of foreign intelligence services had a similar assessment of the intel available at the time.

Strange, but you interpret the facts pretty charitably for everyone who was in favor of the war.... everyone except Bush.
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:32 AM #27
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Animal what about the fact that governor Romney has more experience with the economy than any other candidate?
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...0#post43698720

Coming from someone who knows a whole 'lot more about Economics than 99% of the people who post on this forum, I'd say you're just being your typical pessimistic self, spewing your mindless rhetoric.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:35 AM #28
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Vs. one that will try and again destroy consumer confidance and send us back around the loop? Sure.

Since this isn't fantasyland and I can't get perfect people, I'll settle for people who don't preach the return of something that was JUST (I mean what, 3 months ago?) shown to destroy market confidence and lead to financial instability.
Versus the ones who wish to go back to Reaganomics...which worked fantastically. The trickle down theory combined with his Space Defense ideas were incredibly fiscal. Oh wait. No they weren't.
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:52 PM #29
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Versus the ones who wish to go back to Reaganomics...which worked fantastically. The trickle down theory combined with his Space Defense ideas were incredibly fiscal. Oh wait. No they weren't.
When you don't know a damn thing about the topic you're discussing, it's usually better to just shut up.

Tax cuts that reduce marginal rates lead to more economic activity and greater tax revenue. As far as Reagan's defense spending is concerned, it ultimately bankrupted the Soviet Union, so I'd say it was a pretty decent investment. Now go play in traffic.
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:57 PM #30
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Tax cuts that reduce marginal rates lead to more economic activity and greater tax revenue. As far as Reagan's defense spending is concerned, it ultimately bankrupted the Soviet Union, so I'd say it was a pretty decent investment. Now go play in traffic.
That depends on what part of the Laffer Curve the economy is on, in theory.
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:25 PM #31
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What's false? Are you saying he made up the quotes?
I'm saying the quotes were in response to false information.

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Paint freak, you have an Obama avatar, don't call people partisan, honestly.

And those are quotes... How can they be false information? I know you are still in high school, probably can't even vote, but I'm sure you understand the definition of quotation right?
My second favorite candidate is a republican! Suck it. I'm saying the quotes were in response to false information about WMD's. Guess your clearly superior high school diploma overrules me there. I can vote in the 2008 elections too.
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Old 01-25-2008, 06:06 PM #32
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Animal what about the fact that governor Romney has more experience with the economy than any other candidate?
Dude, I hear Romney also ****s rainbows
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Old 01-25-2008, 06:22 PM #33
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I think they are demeaning you because you said something stupid.



Don't forget to mention that a number of foreign intelligence services had a similar assessment of the intel available at the time.

Strange, but you interpret the facts pretty charitably for everyone who was in favor of the war.... everyone except Bush.
Uh no because Bush was part of the corruption that resulted in the CIA telling Congress that Iraq had WMD. You might recall that he is the leader of the country, thus I will definitely fault him for making up bull**** that we now know for a fact was never true.

I don't fault the other Republicans for voting for it. And no, other foreign intelligence services did not have a similiar assessment. I specifically remember the UN saying that Saddam did not have WMD, and a number of others as well. And before you push the giant UN stick up your ***, it turns out they were right, weren't they?
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:04 PM #34
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Uh no because Bush was part of the corruption that resulted in the CIA telling Congress that Iraq had WMD. You might recall that he is the leader of the country, thus I will definitely fault him for making up bull**** that we now know for a fact was never true.

I don't fault the other Republicans for voting for it. And no, other foreign intelligence services did not have a similiar assessment. I specifically remember the UN saying that Saddam did not have WMD, and a number of others as well. And before you push the giant UN stick up your ***, it turns out they were right, weren't they?
I'm sure you have facts to support this claim. Please prove them with logistical and factual evidence with proof to suppor this assertion or shut it.
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:06 PM #35
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I'm saying the quotes were in response to false information.
They get access to the same info. PLEASE, PLEASE bring up Hillary saying she didn't get to see all the evidence.. that way I can (hopefully) find the link to where she says she just skimmed through the Iraq intel reports.
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Old 01-26-2008, 01:19 AM #36
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They get access to the same info. PLEASE, PLEASE bring up Hillary saying she didn't get to see all the evidence.. that way I can (hopefully) find the link to where she says she just skimmed through the Iraq intel reports.
Ok, they all got access to the same falsified reports. It doesn't change anything. Those quotes were made with faulty intel.
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Old 01-26-2008, 04:22 AM #37
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Ok, they all got access to the same falsified reports. It doesn't change anything. Those quotes were made with faulty intel.
Please support evidence of falsification.
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Old 01-26-2008, 06:36 AM #38
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That depends on what part of the Laffer Curve the economy is on, in theory.
And apparently Reagan, Bush and Kennedy all hit it right.

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Originally Posted by Paint Freak 98 View Post
I'm saying the quotes were in response to false information.
It was the same info everyone was working with, including President Clinton and a number of foreign intel services. If you're going to attack Bush for basing decisions on bad intelligence, you've got to go after all of the other politicians who came to similar conclusions.

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Uh no because Bush was part of the corruption that resulted in the CIA telling Congress that Iraq had WMD. You might recall that he is the leader of the country, thus I will definitely fault him for making up bull**** that we now know for a fact was never true.

I don't fault the other Republicans for voting for it. And no, other foreign intelligence services did not have a similiar assessment. I specifically remember the UN saying that Saddam did not have WMD, and a number of others as well. And before you push the giant UN stick up your ***, it turns out they were right, weren't they?
You're a fool if you think Bush got US intelligence services to just make things up. The record is pretty clear on this, several foreign intelligence services came to a similar assessment, so stick that big UN stick up your ***, OK?
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Last edited by scumquat1 : 01-26-2008 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 01-26-2008, 06:58 AM #39
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That depends on what part of the Laffer Curve the economy is on, in theory.
It might be helpful to hear what Arthur Laffer himself says about cuts to marginal tax rates:

When you cut the highest tax rates on the highest-income earners, government gets more money from them, and when you cut tax rates on the middle and lower income earners, the government gets less money from them.

Even these data grossly understate the total supply-side response. A cut in the highest tax rates will increase lots of other tax receipts. It will lower government spending as a consequence of a stronger economy with less unemployment and less welfare. It will have a material, positive impact on state and local governments. And these effects will only grow with time.

Mark my words: If the Democrats succeed in implementing their plan to tax the rich and cut taxes on the middle and lower income earners, this country will experience a fiscal crisis of serious proportions that will last for years and years until a new Harding, Kennedy or Reagan comes along.

Trained economists know all of this is true, but they try to rebut the facts nonetheless because they believe it will curry favor with their political benefactors.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1201...comment aries

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of almost any and every tax cut on philosophical grounds. However, if the goal is to raise more money for the government, cutting rates for the higher income brackets accomplishes that more effectively than does cutting rates in the lower brackets.


Just as an aside, I've actually seen Laffer speak a couple of times. He's a pretty impressive guy, it's just too bad that the politicians don't pay more attention to him.
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:15 AM #40
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"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003



Do I need to pull up the voting records of the Iraq stuff? I'm sure there are plenty of democrats, including frontrunners in the election, that have voted for Iraq funding and actions. Have a nice day.

Wow! So Bill Clinton was the only one who actually had the smarts to not invade Iraq and plunge our country into debt! Kudos to him for using diplomacy instead of force. Too bad Bush Jr. didn't have the brains to protect the troops/economy. As pres. he could have made a difference. How many billions did the Iraq war cost? That's a pretty expensive price for the destabilization of the worlds markets just so Iraq can have a civil war without Hussein involved. So how about that Dick Cheney? Has he shot anyone else in the face lately?
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:23 AM #41
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Wow! So Bill Clinton was the only one who actually had the smarts to not invade Iraq and plunge our country into debt! Kudos to him for using diplomacy instead of force. Too bad Bush Jr. didn't have the brains to protect the troops/economy. As pres. he could have made a difference. How many billions did the Iraq war cost? That's a pretty expensive price for the destabilization of the worlds markets just so Iraq can have a civil war without Hussein involved. So how about that Dick Cheney? Has he shot anyone else in the face lately?
I hate to break it to you chief, but everything isn't about the Iraq War. Cheney has more brains in his butt-hole than you'll ever have in your pinhead.
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:50 AM #42
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It was the same info everyone was working with, including President Clinton and a number of foreign intel services. If you're going to attack Bush for basing decisions on bad intelligence, you've got to go after all of the other politicians who came to similar conclusions.
When did I attack Bush?
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