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Old 01-24-2008, 01:27 AM #22
pbmike15
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Originally Posted by AR55 View Post
hmmm, how do they charge this battery? Is it really worth it vs the cheaper two gallons of gas? Unlikely.
You charge it by plugging it into a wall outlet in your garage. Its called the Chevy Volt. Also called the GM Volt. Google it, it's actually a very nice looking hybrid. I want one

Edit: Here is a link to the car: http://www.gm-volt.com/chevy-volt-faqs/
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:01 AM #23
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Hydrogen fuel cells are the future. I consider myself a motorhead and love the internal combustion engine. However it is a dated and very inefficient design. Hydrogen is easy to make, easy to transport and is clean.
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:55 AM #24
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Even though Saudi Arabia is our largest importer of oil, it's by large margin, nor is it a huge percentage (20-some percent I believe). But then the premise that buying Saudi Arabian oil = terror is weak at best. So winning the war on terror by ceasing Saudi imports is really just a hopeful fantasy.

Ethanol isn't going to work, period. I live with and work with the farming industry, and we already are screwing things up with the current amount of ethanol production. Right now we are turning about a third of our corn into ethanol, and the amount needed to fully replace oil is many, many times what it is now. In other words, amount of ethanol currently produced is like a drop into the bucket of our total fuel needs. We simply can't grow enough corn to even come close to covering for oil.

We currently are growing record amounts of corn, and more and more land is being used for it. Now soybean production is on the low side because of the farmers' tendency to switch to corn. Grain supplies (like wheat) are being stretched thin too. Animals lose land in this as well. Prices are skyrocketing everywhere because of the stretched supply. Input costs (land, seed, chemicals, etc.) to farm are through the roof. The farming industry is now in a volatile state. If the prices for crops decline, many farmers will be broke. Then only the giants will be left.

We should have never pursued this dead-end fuel. It was only to get a select few rich, and it has done the job. The huge farming corporations have turned in record profits lately thanks to this. Our own food prices are rising in part because of this. Plus instead of turning food into an inefficient fuel, we could be feeding starving people on this earth. Think about that for a moment.

The answer - for now - is to use the best technology we have--oil. There's plenty to go around for everyone, and we need to use more of our own oil, not just less of someone else's. Combine that with building new, efficient refineries and a stronger dollar, and we wouldn't have such high fuel costs. If we want to start using a long-term solution, we should start importing sugar cane ethanol from Brazil. They've grown too much of it, and they would sell it to us for less than what our corn ethanol costs. But of course our globalist, elitist government leaders don't want what's best for this country. They've tariffed that ethanol to make it more expensive. So much for their desire for "Free" trade.
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:06 AM #25
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Ethanol is not a solution. To grow ethanol from corn you need the equivalent of ALL the farmland in Iowa. As it is, ethanol programs and mandates have lead to skyrocketing food prices which are damaging to the poor in America and especially damage to the poor in less developed countries that import American food and where food makes up a much higher percentage of the average household budget
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:32 AM #26
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Any fuel derivative that comes from a common food product wont work for large scale fossil fuel replacement because then you drive the cost of those food products up sharply. In turn you'll drive up the cost of similar food product alternatives due to extra demand. No thanks, I don't want my supermarket prices to be just as volatile as the gas pump prices. Imagine the cost of canned corn going up two bucks every time some wacko makes a vague 'Die America' threat on the Internet.

As for electric vehicles, they are not the answer. Every day the energy expended by fossil fuel vehicles is 8 times the energy that out entire electric grid puts out. Right now, you can use electric cars as a vampiric technology because they are so few and far between that no one notices the draw. In order for everyone to have electric vehicles you need to augment the power grid to support 8 times the power load, or build a car-charge subnet grid 7 times strong than our current one. The grid will need to be completely nuclear as well, or we'll still be completely depended on fossil fuels.

Hydrogen is really the best solution, we just need a collection, transport, and filling infrastructure for hydrogen. Unfortunately we're putting more work into bridge technologies like hybrids than we are to properly solving the problem at hand.
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Old 01-24-2008, 10:58 AM #27
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How come no one has mentioned we should F*CK Kennedy, Obamma, and Clinton for voting AGAINST drilling in Alaska and the conitnental shelf. THey voted against expanding domestic oil! Booo the democrats! BOOOO
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:03 AM #28
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Diesel engines still release more contaminants into the air. It would not work in many US cities.\

Greenhouses gases are not the issue. Diesel engines are notorious for their particulate emissions. Even modern "clean" diesel still release some nasty stuff into the air. If a majority of the US were to drive cars with diesel engines you would see a huge decrease in air quality.
That's a myth. Diesel engines can be cleaner than hybrids. The current diesel engines produce fewer emissions than comparable gas engines. They're clean.

There are also ways of developing synthetic diesels and/or additives for cold weather. Diesel engines can practically run on our own garbage.
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:07 AM #29
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How come no one has mentioned we should F*CK Kennedy, Obamma, and Clinton for voting AGAINST drilling in Alaska and the conitnental shelf. THey voted against expanding domestic oil! Booo the democrats! BOOOO
The problem with oil isn't the supply, it's the fact that there's so few refineries, and they're not very profitable to build new ones. If we wanted a more oil, it wouldn't be a problem, the problem is refining it.
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:07 AM #30
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How come no one has mentioned we should F*CK Kennedy, Obamma, and Clinton for voting AGAINST drilling in Alaska and the conitnental shelf. THey voted against expanding domestic oil! Booo the democrats! BOOOO
Because some of us care about preserving our planet...


Anyway, that was a really interesting article on the Volt! 80 cents for 40 miles is great, considering I pay 3.15 for less than 30 as we speak. I assume the price of electricity would go up, but I don't foresee it getting anywhere near the current gas prices.
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:50 PM #31
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There isn't going to be one end all solution for our dependence on foreign oil. The solution is going to have to come in the form of: increased public transportation, cheaper air travel, wind/solar/nuclear power, more domestic oil, cleaner diesel engines, and a host of other things.
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:55 PM #32
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Because some of us care about preserving our planet...


Anyway, that was a really interesting article on the Volt! 80 cents for 40 miles is great, considering I pay 3.15 for less than 30 as we speak. I assume the price of electricity would go up, but I don't foresee it getting anywhere near the current gas prices.
The best part is that the car is "supposed" to cost less than $30,000, which is well in the price range of most middle class Americans (including myself).

I'm very interesting in seeing this go into production. It's nice to see an American company actually doing something to help out its customers with the fuel struggle we are in right now.
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Old 01-24-2008, 01:31 PM #33
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There isn't going to be one end all solution for our dependence on foreign oil. The solution is going to have to come in the form of: increased public transportation, cheaper air travel, wind/solar/nuclear power, more domestic oil, cleaner diesel engines, and a host of other things.
Well put, for anyone to think that we'll be able to ween ourselves from oil dependency overnight is absurd. We'll need oil for the forseeable future, and we need to utilize whatever resource(s) we can to do, and if it means cutting out OPEC, then so be it.
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Old 01-24-2008, 01:50 PM #34
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That's a myth. Diesel engines can be cleaner than hybrids. The current diesel engines produce fewer emissions than comparable gas engines. They're clean.

There are also ways of developing synthetic diesels and/or additives for cold weather. Diesel engines can practically run on our own garbage.
i actually have two diesel cars, one of which is set up to run on Waste Vegitible Oil. you run the vehicle until its warm then switch the tank over to the veggie oil.

for more info: http://www.goldenfuelsystems.com

and diesel is very clean now that they have regulated the sulfur and other heavy metals. the WVO/SVO fuel is even cleaner than that. my diesel jetta gets 56mpg highway and 42 city, so its more efficient than any hybrid.

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Old 01-24-2008, 01:51 PM #35
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i actually have two cars set up to run on Waste Vegitible Oil. you run the vehicle until its warm then switch the tank over the the veggie.

for more info: http://www.goldenfuelsystems.com

and diesel is very clean now that they have regulated the sulfur and other heavy metals. the WVO/SVO fuel is even more clean than that. my diesel jetta gets 56mpg highway and 42 city, so its more efficient than any hybrid.
that's actually pretty sweet , even for a VW
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Old 01-24-2008, 01:52 PM #36
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that's actually pretty sweet , even for a VW
ha, i live in northwest indiana too.
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:06 PM #37
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ha, i live in northwest indiana too.
my condolences
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Old 01-24-2008, 02:50 PM #38
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Water powered vehicles with their own power plant have been designed and implemented on a small scale.

The problem is, there is no infrastructure in place nor is it profitable to have a free energy source.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:32 PM #39
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Water powered vehicles with their own power plant have been designed and implemented on a small scale.

The problem is, there is no infrastructure in place nor is it profitable to have a free energy source.
no they haven't. I've heard of hydraulic hybrids which store some energy in the form of pressurized water but theres net positive way to extract energy from water moron.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:41 PM #40
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Electric powerd cars would be dumb unless you can convince everyone that that big nuclear power plant in there city (that has the potential to erase that city) is safe, nuclear powerd car is a good idea but you would have to make it much more safe or else you have a bomb setting in your garage waiting for the right conditions. Hydrogen might also be a good idea but it would cost hundreds of billions of dollars just to create the plants to manufacture it, and it is a very expensive and high energy process, so you would have to make nuclear power plants to do this which adds on to the billions, and it would cost much more to buy hydrogen then fossile fuels so it would be inpracticle.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:31 PM #41
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That's a myth. Diesel engines can be cleaner than hybrids. The current diesel engines produce fewer emissions than comparable gas engines. They're clean.

There are also ways of developing synthetic diesels and/or additives for cold weather. Diesel engines can practically run on our own garbage.
There was a European study that I found on autoblog that discussed the pro's and con's of diesel. I can't seem to find it, but one of the main criticisms of diesel was the increased smog that it causes.

Regardless, even if modern diesels are relevitly clean they still are a rather inefficient way to to propel a car. IIRC, internal combustion engines have a efficiency rating of only around 35% while a modern electric engine is well into the 90's%.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:35 PM #42
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There was a European study that I found on autoblog that discussed the pro's and con's of diesel. I can't seem to find it, but one of the main criticisms of diesel was the increased smog that it causes.

Regardless, even if modern diesels are relevitly clean they still are a rather inefficient way to to propel a car. IIRC, internal combustion engines have a efficiency rating of only around 35% while a modern electric engine is well into the 90's%.
Where did you come across that?

Electric engines are inherently better at lower speeds, but are also heavy polluters, add weight to cars, and have different needs at higher duty cycles. Everything on earth has pros and cons.

The great thing about deisels is that they get high MPG thus reducing need for fossil fuels, and can burn more varieties on renewable fuels, thus reducing them some more. The drawback is soot but IIRC the urea (?) systems aim to reduce that.
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