Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-23-2008, 01:20 PM #1
tonysk83
 
 
tonysk83's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
tonysk83 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Energy Victory: Winning the war on terror by breaking free of oil

Has anyone read this book? I just finished it up and I am having a hard time disagreeing with this guy, someone help me figure out where his plan doesn't work.

Basically the author, world renowned engineer Robert Zubrin is saying that the government should very soon mandate all cars in the U.S. be flex fuel vehicles. He says in the book any car can become flex fuel with under 500 dollars in parts. If we do this we can stop funding the Saudis who are the true enemy we are fighting in the middle east. Our farmers here at home can grow the corn we need to produce ethanol so we can run all of our cars off of e85.

The book spends a lot of time dealing with how the Saudis are the worst people over the middle east and how our unending funding of oil money to them is fueling them to support terrorist organizations.

He also talks about Brazil and how they are starting the policy he wants to have our own government enact and how successful it has been.

What do you guys think of this plan?
__________________
www.myspace.com/blueprintforutopia

"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence economic, political, even spiritual is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications."-Dwight Eisenhower
tonysk83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 01-23-2008, 01:22 PM #2
NorCalBaller88
iFap
 
NorCalBaller88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
Wouldn't the economy get ****ed up if everyone went over to corn ethenol?
__________________
Johns Hopkins, class of 2013
:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=597002


"Plenty of room at the Hotel California..."
NorCalBaller88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 01:42 PM #3
Mosati
Lithic
 
Mosati's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Newtown, PA
****ing horrible plan.

Ethanol from corn is inefficient, and even if we used all available corn it would net us something like 12% of our current needs. Other methods of ethanol or biodiesel production are better (soybean/sugar); non food sources are better still (switch grass). Brazil is a small country, and they can pump out lots and lots of sugar without dipping in to the food-supply pot.

The fact remains, biofuels aren't a solid long term solution (taking in to consideration production needs).
__________________
PM6
2k1 Impulse
Ion

Last edited by Mosati : 01-23-2008 at 01:45 PM.
Mosati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 01:58 PM #4
Oconnore
mmm Frogs
 
Oconnore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Massachussets
Nuclear power creates ZERO emissions, and could remove us from all oil dependence. Furthermore, with modernized reactor design, most nuclear waste can be recycled, and safety can be guaranteed.

Those 10,000 nukes of ours could help us win a war after all...
Oconnore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 02:02 PM #5
paintballa42169
 
 
paintballa42169's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SANTA CRUZ
 has been a member for 10 years
It would suck for the gas stations... and the car market.. trying to sell your car when everyone wants a vehicle running off of e85. Gas prices are already ridiculous, and the car market sucks as it is. So why not throw cars running off of e85 out there.. it's worth a try.
paintballa42169 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 02:04 PM #6
NorCalBaller88
iFap
 
NorCalBaller88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintballa42169 View Post
It would suck for the gas stations... and the car market.. trying to sell your car when everyone wants a vehicle running off of e85. Gas prices are already ridiculous, and the car market sucks as it is. So why not throw cars running off of e85 out there.. it's worth a try.
?
__________________
Johns Hopkins, class of 2013
:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=597002


"Plenty of room at the Hotel California..."
NorCalBaller88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 02:11 PM #7
paintballa42169
 
 
paintballa42169's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SANTA CRUZ
 has been a member for 10 years
Oh my bad.. I misunderstood the point where he said with $500 you're able to make your vehicle 'flex fuel'. You can eliminate the part where I mentioned something about selling your current vehicles.
paintballa42169 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 02:32 PM #8
pbmike15
Truth with a capital C
 
pbmike15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: columbus ohio
Has anybody watched the documentary "Who killed the electric car?"

It's very interesting and disturbing at the same time.


Anywho, I like where this guys head is at. By not being energy independent we are at the whim of the Saudi Arabians. If they wanted to, they could work with he chinese to completely ruin our country financially.

Next to tax reform, energy independence is my second highest concern politically.
__________________
-----M REDHAWKS M-----

Last edited by pbmike15 : 01-23-2008 at 04:28 PM.
pbmike15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 03:10 PM #9
Danegerous
is dangerous
 
Danegerous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia and Texas
Danegerous helped look for balloons
Corn isn't the answer, it's already overgrown and it would just encourage more farmers to grow more, but corn sucks nutrients out of the soil like you wouldn't believe. You say crop rotation is an answer, but there's no profit in that for farmers, so you expect them to take a hit? I wouldn't, but the environment would continue to take the hit as the current processes of creating ethanol from corn are just as inefficient as the carbon emissions of gas from cars.

Scientists are looking into some bacterial ways to produce ethanol, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that. Hydrogen is being pursued too, but the costs are a bit over the head of almost everyone currently.

I agree with Oconnore, we should turn more to nuclear power plants. Technology has advanced a lot from the time of 3 mile island, and we certainly don't do business like Russia did at Chernobyl, so I think it's a good alternative if we protected the plants sufficiently.
__________________
Texas A&M Corps of Cadets
USAF
Danegerous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 05:25 PM #10
Adema3412
Give me fiction
 
Adema3412's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
Ethanol is not the answer.
__________________
I can't believe how strange it is to be anything at all
It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
discipline. But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion
on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
--Murray Rothbard
Adema3412 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 06:29 PM #11
Furious Ge0rge (Banned)
Don't Tax me, Bro.
 
Furious Ge0rge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: flag@whitehouse.gov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
Ethanol is not the answer.
.
Furious Ge0rge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 07:06 PM #12
Animalm0ther3
The Stig, [])anny, df04
 
Animalm0ther3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cary, NC **WE GOT CUP**
Get the government out of energy. We could all have an electric car or 2 and not pay gas prices at all, if they didn't kill the electric car.
__________________
D Shizzle 924 is a woman.

"Originally posted by so_FLY: i've heard one beer adds .1 to your BAC, so he had 79 beers?"
Animalm0ther3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 07:27 PM #13
pbmike15
Truth with a capital C
 
pbmike15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: columbus ohio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3 View Post
Get the government out of energy. We could all have an electric car or 2 and not pay gas prices at all, if they didn't kill the electric car.
They didnt kill it, just those who thought of it first. Chevy is coming out with a new electric car that runs on a lithium ion battery for 40 miles before switching to an alternative fuel source.
__________________
-----M REDHAWKS M-----
pbmike15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 07:34 PM #14
AR55
conch shell warrior
 
AR55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
AR55 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmike15 View Post
They didnt kill it, just those who thought of it first. Chevy is coming out with a new electric car that runs on a lithium ion battery for 40 miles before switching to an alternative fuel source.
hmmm, how do they charge this battery? Is it really worth it vs the cheaper two gallons of gas? Unlikely.

We have nuclear energy, we need to implement the technology on a state by state basis. Either that or actually make cars efficient vehicles; the way cars are propelled, shaped, and powered is anything but cost effective.
AR55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 07:35 PM #15
Animalm0ther3
The Stig, [])anny, df04
 
Animalm0ther3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cary, NC **WE GOT CUP**
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmike15 View Post
They didnt kill it, just those who thought of it first. Chevy is coming out with a new electric car that runs on a lithium ion battery for 40 miles before switching to an alternative fuel source.
I didn't watch the movie, but from what I've seen the electric cars had to literally be shredded into pieces. I never found out who was responsible or why though...
__________________
D Shizzle 924 is a woman.

"Originally posted by so_FLY: i've heard one beer adds .1 to your BAC, so he had 79 beers?"
Animalm0ther3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 11:07 PM #16
graysonp
Me = Awesome
 
graysonp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southern KY
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3 View Post
Get the government out of energy.
The free market will determine what fuel source(s) consumers want and need.


Ethanol is a pipe dream. Personally, I think bio-diesel and/or synthetic diesel is the way of the future.
graysonp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 11:24 PM #17
hmmmDonut
Life fails **
 
hmmmDonut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pembroke Pines, fl.
hmmmDonut is a Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
The free market will determine what fuel source(s) consumers want and need.


Ethanol is a pipe dream. Personally, I think bio-diesel and/or synthetic diesel is the way of the future.
I don't think diesel is the answer at all. Diesel has much more particulate emission than gasoline. Greenhouses gases aside, smog is already a huge problem in many US cities and a switch to Diesel would only make it worse.

I still think the Plug in Electric Vehicles are the best option we have. Nuclear powered infrastructure combined with electric cars would be cheap, efficient, and have almost no emissions. The only obstacle is battery capacity and to actually build new nuclear reactors.

Ethanol just won't work. Any attempt to harvest corn for fuel production will have an inverse effect on our food supply. Also Ethanol is inefficient, and burns about 1/4 quicker than gasoline. The only application that is excels at is race fuel.
hmmmDonut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 11:30 PM #18
graysonp
Me = Awesome
 
graysonp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Southern KY
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmmDonut View Post
I don't think diesel is the answer at all. Diesel has much more particulate emission than gasoline. Greenhouses gases aside, smog is already a huge problem in many US cities and a switch to Diesel would only make it worse.
Diesel vehicles have the potential to be as clean as Hybrids. The 2008 diesel engines in pick-up trucks (from each of the big 3) are actually classified as "ultra-low emmisions vehicles".
graysonp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 11:37 PM #19
hmmmDonut
Life fails **
 
hmmmDonut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pembroke Pines, fl.
hmmmDonut is a Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
Diesel vehicles have the potential to be as clean as Hybrids. The 2008 diesel engines in pick-up trucks (from each of the big 3) are actually classified as "ultra-low emmisions vehicles".
Diesel engines still release more contaminants into the air. It would not work in many US cities.\

Greenhouses gases are not the issue. Diesel engines are notorious for their particulate emissions. Even modern "clean" diesel still release some nasty stuff into the air. If a majority of the US were to drive cars with diesel engines you would see a huge decrease in air quality.

Last edited by hmmmDonut : 01-23-2008 at 11:40 PM.
hmmmDonut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2008, 12:09 AM #20
FluffyMumkins
mluffyfumkins
 
FluffyMumkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Warrensburg
Ethanol is awful...

From what I've seen, the current methodology of producing ethanol in the United States consumes more gasoline than it produces ethanol. Apparently there are better methods, but other countries are doing it, not the U.S.

Biodiesel isn't a great solution either. It gels up real bad in cold weather. You could put all vehicles in warmer areas on biodiesel, and it's a start. It's just not a complete solution.

An alternative fuel I would focus on most is battery electric cars. Battery technology is only going to get better.

One last alternative fuel to mention is water electrolysis aka fuel cells.
__________________
|Al Jazeera English|Foobar2000|SurplusRifle|AmmoEngine|RFC|Tag's Trance|DailyTech|NOAA|MetaCritic|
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.". - Benjamin Franklin
paintballbum - get out of here with your logic

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
FluffyMumkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2008, 12:12 AM #21
strongboy2005
And the memory remains...
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
 has been a member for 10 years
Nuclear power would totally end our dependence on foreign oil.
strongboy2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump