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Old 01-21-2008, 08:01 PM #85
Animalm0ther3
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Originally Posted by icp1327 View Post
Responsible drug use wouldn't? I just don't think that many people would use SOME drugs responsibly it is not possible, their are to many side effects to some of the illegal drugs out there.

EDIT---If someone could sue because they spilt coffe on themselves, "it was to hot" duh coffe is supposed to be hot. What about the guy who sued because he broke his leg while trying to rob some persons house? They all won and I guarantee that people would find a way to win in court.
Uhh, you cannot sue a drug company for not informing them of risks if they inform them of risks.

And are you still arguing that drugs should remain illegal at a federal level because of side effects? Yes it has side effects, its a health concern. People should be treated for their bad health, not locked up.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:04 PM #86
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Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3 View Post
What is the point of the "MORE PEOPLE WOULD USE" argument? Are you basically saying that you're smart and wouldn't use more drugs, but other people are dumb and can't be responsible for themselves? Why is it any of your business if someone else uses drugs responsibly?
I wouldn't mind unless they did something that could effect others, like driving. We could make laws that basically follow the same guidelines as someone intoxicated on alcohol but there will always be someone who will break them. Although it would be pretty funny to watch someone try to drive while imagining they're in candy land and the ghost busters are chasing them.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:05 PM #87
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Okay, after browsing the posts in this thread I've got to chime in. Whoever wants to legalize all drugs has truly never seen an addict. Sure, legalize marijuana wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I'm still against that due to the lack of an easy DUI test to see how impaired you are on marijuana....but that's another topic.

I'd like to bring up a few points from a law enforcement perspective:

-No one brought up Meth...the most dangerous drug out there now. Meth has become the new hard drug of choice because its cheaper than cocaine and heroine.

-I can guarantee that most of you have never seen a true addict. True addicts are responsible for a large portion of burglaries and petty thefts....but are responsible for a very low percentage in robberies.

-Someone said that if its so easy to get, why aren't there more addicts? Because the fear of incarceration is still a major detterent. Without that deterrent, you'll have more users and more addicts (look at the Netherlands...its a **** hole).

-Have you ever seen how someone acts on heroine, crack, or meth? They're a danger to society, not just to themselves.

-If you legalize drugs, DUI's are going to increase as well as traffic related deaths caused by drugs.

-You'll still have drug dealers because if its legal it will be taxed, driving the price up. Not to mention there would be a new regulatory agency to regulate the quality of the legal drugs to make sure your legal weed wasn't laced with PCP. Not to mention companies would have to comply with new environmental regulations, have advertisements, and lobbyists in Washington...all of which would drive the price up. With the price being driven up, the black market for drugs will still exist, with more customers who tried their drug of choice legally.

Go ahead and lobby for marijuana to be legal, but it won't cut down on crime. Criminals are criminals, no matter what. If you take a small time drug dealer who deals weed and then legalize weed, you take away his only source of income, he'll move onto another crime (burglaries, robberies, theft, etc.).

Here's a recent, real life example of what DUI drugs can do:

Tuesday, I was driving home from work on the interstate in my personal vehicle. I was going about 70mph when a car passed me going about 90. Up ahead, I saw the car attempt to move around one car in the left lane to the right lane, then cut back to the left. He hit an SUV (with Dad, 11 year old daughter and 9 year old son). The problem was that the 9 year old boy was sleeping, with his head against the window. The SUV hit the center wall, disintegrate the left side of his face and jaw. I was there, with him lying on the side of the road freaking out because half of his face was missing. The guy who hit him? He was DUI alcohol, cocaine, and marijuana. The alcohol content wasn't that high, right around the legal limit, but mixed with the cocaine and marijuana it became a problem. Because of this, a 9 year old boy doesn't have half of his face and has to have a metal jaw put in. Have you ever heard a 9 year old boy scream with no jaw because some guy high on cocaine and weed slammed into his car? I didn't think so.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:12 PM #88
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Originally Posted by zedtheundead View Post
DUI's? By that logic outlaw alcohol. The reason DUI is illegal is because you are a danger to others, thus encroaching on their civil liberties. The same laws would still apply to other drugs.

And the first reason is retarded. Plenty of things are bad for you that companies sell. McDonald's? Cigarettes? Alcohol? Doritos? Doesn't mean we should outlaw these things. People should have the right to be stupid and do whatever they want to themselves. If you own anything in this world, you would think it would be yourself
DUI's don't always mean the bottle.


THANKS FOR PUTTING WHAT I COULDN'T INTO WORDS APUNK!
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:14 PM #89
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I don't know I never will use drugs so it doesn't particularly effect me, I still beleive people should be able to do to themselves whatever they want if they can manage to do it responsibly.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:19 PM #90
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Originally Posted by apunkjunkie View Post
Okay, after browsing the posts in this thread I've got to chime in. Whoever wants to legalize all drugs has truly never seen an addict. Sure, legalize marijuana wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I'm still against that due to the lack of an easy DUI test to see how impaired you are on marijuana....but that's another topic.

I'd like to bring up a few points from a law enforcement perspective:

-No one brought up Meth...the most dangerous drug out there now. Meth has become the new hard drug of choice because its cheaper than cocaine and heroine.

-I can guarantee that most of you have never seen a true addict. True addicts are responsible for a large portion of burglaries and petty thefts....but are responsible for a very low percentage in robberies.

-Someone said that if its so easy to get, why aren't there more addicts? Because the fear of incarceration is still a major detterent. Without that deterrent, you'll have more users and more addicts (look at the Netherlands...its a **** hole).

-Have you ever seen how someone acts on heroine, crack, or meth? They're a danger to society, not just to themselves.

-If you legalize drugs, DUI's are going to increase as well as traffic related deaths caused by drugs.

-You'll still have drug dealers because if its legal it will be taxed, driving the price up. Not to mention there would be a new regulatory agency to regulate the quality of the legal drugs to make sure your legal weed wasn't laced with PCP. Not to mention companies would have to comply with new environmental regulations, have advertisements, and lobbyists in Washington...all of which would drive the price up. With the price being driven up, the black market for drugs will still exist, with more customers who tried their drug of choice legally.

Go ahead and lobby for marijuana to be legal, but it won't cut down on crime. Criminals are criminals, no matter what. If you take a small time drug dealer who deals weed and then legalize weed, you take away his only source of income, he'll move onto another crime (burglaries, robberies, theft, etc.).

Here's a recent, real life example of what DUI drugs can do:

Tuesday, I was driving home from work on the interstate in my personal vehicle. I was going about 70mph when a car passed me going about 90. Up ahead, I saw the car attempt to move around one car in the left lane to the right lane, then cut back to the left. He hit an SUV (with Dad, 11 year old daughter and 9 year old son). The problem was that the 9 year old boy was sleeping, with his head against the window. The SUV hit the center wall, disintegrate the left side of his face and jaw. I was there, with him lying on the side of the road freaking out because half of his face was missing. The guy who hit him? He was DUI alcohol, cocaine, and marijuana. The alcohol content wasn't that high, right around the legal limit, but mixed with the cocaine and marijuana it became a problem. Because of this, a 9 year old boy doesn't have half of his face and has to have a metal jaw put in. Have you ever heard a 9 year old boy scream with no jaw because some guy high on cocaine and weed slammed into his car? I didn't think so.


So the threat of incarceration is the way to fight drug addiction? Thats a good concept, but in reality, there are addicts despite the detterance, and these people are sick. They shouldn't be locked up. Locking up responsible drug users is not helping society... We both agree that DUI is horrible and should remain illegal for all drugs that greatly impair driving.

States can regulate the trade as they wish, and it might take them a while to hone down their strategy and find a good level of regulation, but the fact remains, incarcerating responsible drug users does nothing good for the user or for society.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:22 PM #91
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Originally Posted by Animalm0ther3 View Post
So the threat of incarceration is the way to fight drug addiction? Thats a good concept, but in reality, there are addicts despite the detterance, and these people are sick. They shouldn't be locked up. Locking up responsible drug users is not helping society... We both agree that DUI is horrible and should remain illegal for all drugs that greatly impair driving.

States can regulate the trade as they wish, and it might take them a while to hone down their strategy and find a good level of regulation, but the fact remains, incarcerating responsible drug users does nothing good for the user or for society.
True their needs to be better rehab. of addicts. The threat of incarceration or a criminal record does deter alot of people from using.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:26 PM #92
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I'm still against that due to the lack of an easy DUI test to see how impaired you are on marijuana....but that's another topic.
Would you believe I actually drive safer under the effects of marijuana then not? I didn't think so...but the people who drive with me do. I follow the speed limit exactly, focus more on driving to compensate, don't have road rage incidents, etc. I am way calmer, focused on what I'm doing, and relaxed. One of my better friends who is extremely intelligent (as in true genius) refuses to drive with me if I'm not high. lol.

When I'm not high, I'm going 20+ over the limit, playing with the radio or my phone, so pissed off at the idiot that just cut me off I am about to smash into him and his family. Could there be a better way to deal with my issues? Of course there is. Is there a better way until I learn to deal with my issues, which doesn't just happen overnight? If there is please let me know!

I actually recently quit smoking for a job (hence the reason I spend so much time posting lately). I am actually totally clean now except for cigarettes.
When I quit smoking (after years of habitual use) I had no withdraw symptoms. Would I like to do it? Yes I'll admit that. Does it bother me that much? Not much at all, theres no urge to do it and as long as I find something else to spend my time doing, its not a problem at all.
So watch out for me on the road, America!!!!

edit: The 3 traffic accidents I've been involved in since I begun driving, were all my fault. All 3 occurred while I was stone cold sober. During that same time I would estimate I drove high at least 95% of the time. Go figure..

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Old 01-21-2008, 08:28 PM #93
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So the threat of incarceration is the way to fight drug addiction? Thats a good concept, but in reality, there are addicts despite the detterance, and these people are sick. They shouldn't be locked up. Locking up responsible drug users is not helping society... We both agree that DUI is horrible and should remain illegal for all drugs that greatly impair driving.

States can regulate the trade as they wish, and it might take them a while to hone down their strategy and find a good level of regulation, but the fact remains, incarcerating responsible drug users does nothing good for the user or for society.
I'm not saying the threat of incarceration is a way to fight drug addiction, but it does deter a good portion from actually using in the first place.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:35 PM #94
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Would you believe I actually drive safer under the effects of marijuana then not? I didn't think so...but the people who drive with me do. I follow the speed limit exactly, focus more on driving to compensate, don't have road rage incidents, etc. I am way calmer, focused on what I'm doing, and relaxed. One of my better friends who is extremely intelligent (as in true genius) refuses to drive with me if I'm not high. lol.

When I'm not high, I'm going 20+ over the limit, playing with the radio or my phone, so pissed off at the idiot that just cut me off I am about to smash into him and his family. Could there be a better way to deal with my issues? Of course there is. Is there a better way until I learn to deal with my issues, which doesn't just happen overnight? If there is please let me know!

I actually recently quit smoking for a job (hence the reason I spend so much time posting lately). I am actually totally clean now except for cigarettes.
When I quit smoking (after years of habitual use) I had no withdraw symptoms. Would I like to do it? Yes I'll admit that. Does it bother me that much? Not much at all, theres no urge to do it and as long as I find something else to spend my time doing, its not a problem at all.
So watch out for me on the road, America!!!!
If you have to find other things to do just to not have the urge wouldn't that constitute an addiction?
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:37 PM #95
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I'm not saying the threat of incarceration is a way to fight drug addiction, but it does deter a good portion from actually using in the first place.
Yeah, it may deter a lot of people, but there will always be people who do it whether it is legal or not. Trying to stop it is just a waste of tax dollars.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:42 PM #96
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If you have to find other things to do just to not have the urge wouldn't that constitute an addiction?
I'm not sure I would. If i didn't do anything but stare at a wall and crave marijuana, I'd consider that more of a problem. I would consider an addiction having the urge NO MATTER WHAT ELSE I DID.

edit: reading back on my post, you twisted my words around. I clearly said I do not have any urge to do it. By saying as long as I occupy my time with other things, and do not just stare at the wall dwelling on it, I'm fine does not imply an urge unless I am doing something else

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Old 01-21-2008, 08:59 PM #97
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DUI's don't always mean the bottle.

I am aware of that. That doesn't change the argument.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:08 PM #98
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DUI's? By that logic outlaw alcohol. The reason DUI is illegal is because you are a danger to others, thus encroaching on their civil liberties. The same laws would still apply to other drugs.

And the first reason is retarded. Plenty of things are bad for you that companies sell. McDonald's? Cigarettes? Alcohol? Doritos? Doesn't mean we should outlaw these things. People should have the right to be stupid and do whatever they want to themselves. If you own anything in this world, you would think it would be yourself
Yes the first reason is retarded and people sue for stupid things....


As for the red. More people would be using drugs and then DUI's would go up which puts my family in more of a danger. I really don't care what you do in your home its when you go into the street I begin to care because you may hurt my family. Alot more people would lose "control" when using drugs than those who drink from the bottle.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:13 PM #99
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Yes the first reason is retarded and people sue for stupid things....


As for the red. More people would be using drugs and then DUI's would go up which puts my family in more of a danger. I really don't care what you do in your home its when you go into the street I begin to care because you may hurt my family. Alot more people would lose "control" when using drugs than those who drink from the bottle.
I don't think a lot more would lose control on drugs then alcohol. It would be a reasonably close number either way. And just for the record I don't condone DUI across the board for everyone. Most people drive terrible sober, and even worse DUI.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:18 PM #100
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Would you believe I actually drive safer under the effects of marijuana then not? I didn't think so...but the people who drive with me do. I follow the speed limit exactly, focus more on driving to compensate, don't have road rage incidents, etc. I am way calmer, focused on what I'm doing, and relaxed. One of my better friends who is extremely intelligent (as in true genius) refuses to drive with me if I'm not high. lol.

When I'm not high, I'm going 20+ over the limit, playing with the radio or my phone, so pissed off at the idiot that just cut me off I am about to smash into him and his family. Could there be a better way to deal with my issues? Of course there is. Is there a better way until I learn to deal with my issues, which doesn't just happen overnight? If there is please let me know!

I actually recently quit smoking for a job (hence the reason I spend so much time posting lately). I am actually totally clean now except for cigarettes.
When I quit smoking (after years of habitual use) I had no withdraw symptoms. Would I like to do it? Yes I'll admit that. Does it bother me that much? Not much at all, theres no urge to do it and as long as I find something else to spend my time doing, its not a problem at all.
So watch out for me on the road, America!!!!

edit: The 3 traffic accidents I've been involved in since I begun driving, were all my fault. All 3 occurred while I was stone cold sober. During that same time I would estimate I drove high at least 95% of the time. Go figure..
Well you are in the minority if you really do drive better stoned. You're probably so paranoid that you don't listen to the radio, don't speed, don't talk on your cell phone, etc. However, how would you drive stoned if you didn't stop all of those things? Would you still be a better driver if you changed nothing of your driving habits, but smoked some weed beforehand?

But as I said before, so this doesn't turn into ANOTHER legalize marijuana thread....take marijuana out of the situation since that seems to be the most common lobbied drug for legalization.

If marijuana was legal, would you still want drugs to be legalized?
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:35 PM #101
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Well you are in the minority if you really do drive better stoned. You're probably so paranoid that you don't listen to the radio, don't speed, don't talk on your cell phone, etc. However, how would you drive stoned if you didn't stop all of those things? Would you still be a better driver if you changed nothing of your driving habits, but smoked some weed beforehand?
I'm less paranoid in fact, which is one of the reasons I relax more. I will admit part of obeying the laws is due to making an effort to have to speak with the police. I have been pulled over once for speeding while high. Instead of being arrested for DUI, I was actually giving a break. I have reason to believe the officer doesn't suspect I was high at all. I was late for work, I believe it was 48 in a 25. He gave me a ticket not for speeding, but failure to obey a traffic sign (the speed limit sign) which is a much less expensive ticket here. I am not postive but I believe either 20 or 25 over here is an automatic suspension.

I do listen to the radio, I just don't change stations or CD every minute and a half like I do sober. The phone I do not mess with when high, its too distracting. I know this when I'm not high as well, but don't consider it as much, or until something reminds me (seeing the police as its illegal to talk and drive here, or almost hitting something because I'm not paying enough attention).
In the past, I've been diagnosed with ADD and ADHD. The marijuana eases this greatly. I've also tried several commercial medicines for these problems. They made my feel like I was going to puke randomly. I'd be fine one moment, and not so fine the next moment. It was hard to live this way. Ever suddenly feel the need to puke while doing 70mph (speed limit) on the highway? They also tended to make it so I didn't have highs and lows. Everything felt the same, my dog dying was no more or less exciting or depressing then winning $2000.
If I didn't stop all these things, all in all I feel it would still be just slightly better because of the calmness, lack of road rage, and I am much less impulsive. I have done reaction time tests (such as having someone drop a ruler and measuring the distance until I catch it) both ways and the results are quite similar (usually one of, if not the best in the room).

edit: if marijuana was legal, I would still believe others should be as well. While I don't do or agree with them, its not my place to make that choice for others. I also disagree with the way we currently spend the amount we do fighting them. If there was a better way I would most likely chance my stance.

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Old 01-21-2008, 09:37 PM #102
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Okay, after browsing the posts in this thread I've got to chime in. Whoever wants to legalize all drugs has truly never seen an addict. Sure, legalize marijuana wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I'm still against that due to the lack of an easy DUI test to see how impaired you are on marijuana....but that's another topic.

I'd like to bring up a few points from a law enforcement perspective:

-No one brought up Meth...the most dangerous drug out there now. Meth has become the new hard drug of choice because its cheaper than cocaine and heroine.

-I can guarantee that most of you have never seen a true addict. True addicts are responsible for a large portion of burglaries and petty thefts....but are responsible for a very low percentage in robberies.

-Someone said that if its so easy to get, why aren't there more addicts? Because the fear of incarceration is still a major detterent. Without that deterrent, you'll have more users and more addicts (look at the Netherlands...its a **** hole).

-Have you ever seen how someone acts on heroine, crack, or meth? They're a danger to society, not just to themselves.

-If you legalize drugs, DUI's are going to increase as well as traffic related deaths caused by drugs.

-You'll still have drug dealers because if its legal it will be taxed, driving the price up. Not to mention there would be a new regulatory agency to regulate the quality of the legal drugs to make sure your legal weed wasn't laced with PCP. Not to mention companies would have to comply with new environmental regulations, have advertisements, and lobbyists in Washington...all of which would drive the price up. With the price being driven up, the black market for drugs will still exist, with more customers who tried their drug of choice legally.

Go ahead and lobby for marijuana to be legal, but it won't cut down on crime. Criminals are criminals, no matter what. If you take a small time drug dealer who deals weed and then legalize weed, you take away his only source of income, he'll move onto another crime (burglaries, robberies, theft, etc.).

Here's a recent, real life example of what DUI drugs can do:

Tuesday, I was driving home from work on the interstate in my personal vehicle. I was going about 70mph when a car passed me going about 90. Up ahead, I saw the car attempt to move around one car in the left lane to the right lane, then cut back to the left. He hit an SUV (with Dad, 11 year old daughter and 9 year old son). The problem was that the 9 year old boy was sleeping, with his head against the window. The SUV hit the center wall, disintegrate the left side of his face and jaw. I was there, with him lying on the side of the road freaking out because half of his face was missing. The guy who hit him? He was DUI alcohol, cocaine, and marijuana. The alcohol content wasn't that high, right around the legal limit, but mixed with the cocaine and marijuana it became a problem. Because of this, a 9 year old boy doesn't have half of his face and has to have a metal jaw put in. Have you ever heard a 9 year old boy scream with no jaw because some guy high on cocaine and weed slammed into his car? I didn't think so.
When you mix smoking marijuana and drinking, it potentiates the alcohol to a high degree. I could have one beer and smoke a joint, and will feel pretty damn ****ed up. Whereas if I had just one beer, I would feel pretty sober.

So basically your argument is not entirely right. Saying he was within the legal limit for alcohol holds no water. And being high on Cocaine usually does what most stimulants do to a person. It makes their mind sharp and think quick and clearly. I say the alcohol is the blame here.
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Old 01-21-2008, 09:46 PM #103
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When you mix smoking marijuana and drinking, it potentiates the alcohol to a high degree. I could have one beer and smoke a joint, and will feel pretty damn ****ed up. Whereas if I had just one beer, I would feel pretty sober.
I also agree with this greatly! I don't drink much at all. Like once a year is more often then usual for me. I have already admitted to previously being a habitual marijuana user. If I drink 2 beers I am ok to function, although definitely not drive. If i drink 1 beer and smoke, I am a complete wreck.
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Old 01-21-2008, 10:08 PM #104
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not all drugs, i would like some drugs to stay illegal such as:

meth
cocaine
heroin
PCP
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Old 01-22-2008, 12:00 AM #105
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Originally Posted by Bunkered89 View Post
When you mix smoking marijuana and drinking, it potentiates the alcohol to a high degree. I could have one beer and smoke a joint, and will feel pretty damn ****ed up. Whereas if I had just one beer, I would feel pretty sober.

So basically your argument is not entirely right. Saying he was within the legal limit for alcohol holds no water. And being high on Cocaine usually does what most stimulants do to a person. It makes their mind sharp and think quick and clearly. I say the alcohol is the blame here.
Actually it does....without the drugs, the alcohol effects wouldn't be enhanced. So in essence, the drugs are to blame....actually the guy is to blame, but you get my point.

So...you think being on cocaine keeps someone's mind sharp, they think quicker, and more clearly....wow what planet are you from? They may be more awake and feel like they have mental clarity, but they are hyper-sensitive to everything. Their brain is processing things so quickly that its tough to disseminate all the information they're taking in. It also affects the way they perform on divided attention field sobriety evaluations. If they can't follow simple directions on the side of the road, how do you think they'd do driving? Think of all those people tweaking on meth....man those people are sharp.
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