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Old 01-29-2008, 02:35 AM #274
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Originally Posted by phiend View Post
Are there really that many career burglar pot heads out there? Most that I know work in like 7-11 or really repetitive type jobs, like factories and just mindlessly do the same thing for 8 hours. Not that being a zombie in a factory is great, but I could see how being high could actually make that less like torture. I know quite a few who smoke daily after getting home from the successful business they own as well. I actually can't think of one person I know who smokes marijuana and doesn't have a job. They are all decent people who don't beat their wife/girlfriend up, aren't out getting into bar fights on Saturday night. Without exception, they just want to go to a concert, watch a movie, or play video games and chill without any drama. Other then smoking marijuana, the worst crimes they commit are traffic violations.

The fools I know that steal other peoples stuff are doing drugs like meth and crack. On the other hand I have known people with cocaine, meth, and heroin addictions that have still somehow managed to work. These people did some other things that were less then legal, but nothing violent. Examples would be bet on sports, football pools, and other gambling related stuff.

Is there a difference between a non violent offense, and a violent offender? Like someone who used to smoke crack and mug people, but now just smokes marijuana and delivers pizza? His past is definitely less then that of an upstanding member of the community. But his present is a lot closer to a decent, working member of that community.

I've drifted away from your question just a tad...But I don't feel someone with a violent past a should be considered a violent offender if he is caught with marijuana as long as thats the only illegal thing he is doing at that time.
Would the same person be considered to be committing a violent offense for running a stop sign, or driving with an expired registration?
I understand where you're coming from. I do think an ex-crackhead who now only smokes pot is a better member of society. However, I believe he should still be considered a violent offender because he has shown a propensity towards violence. Some people are programed to be more violent than others. Your friends that smoke pot and don't go out and start fights don't have that propensity towards violence, but others do.

I have...well had ....many friends that would smoke pot. They, too, were productive members of society. However, not everyone is like that. I work in the ghettos a large majority of the time. I work in a place where hardly anyone has a job, and if they do its a minimum-wage-go-nowhere job. The government pays for their food, clothing, rent, and utilities....all the money they earn goes for fast food, drugs, rent-a-furniture, or a nicer car than I can afford to drive. Some of those people are thieves too. However, a lot of those thieves smoke pot. Its a different culture in the poor areas of your town. I wouldn't recommend anyone going down there to study it, but if you drive through some of the projects during normal working hours, you'll see what I mean.

Let me use a different example. Would you generally consider gangs violent? I don't think there is anyone that doesn't. However, not all gang members have been convicted of a violent crime. Yet, a lot of gang members smoke weed. So should a gang member, not convicted of a violent crime, get a pass when it comes to the drug charge? I think not. I've locked gang members up for weed, then searched their car incident to arrest and found a stolen gun. Weed is a great gateway into getting illegal guns off the street and finding other stolen property or using it to make them roll on bigger fish.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:22 AM #275
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Originally Posted by Bunkered89 View Post
I think Americans should realize that McDonalds does nothing good for their body in the long run. Doesn't stop them from eating it. Why should drugs be any different? Most drugs are pretty benign anyway. You tell me what harm doing a few hits of LSD are? Tell me how bad it is to eat some Psilocybin. Please show me how destructive MDMA is to my brain. I dare you to legitimately tell me how marijuana isn't actually BENEFICIAL in medicine. And MDMA is actually quite useful in treating post traumatic stress disorder. Bet DARE didn't tell you that either.
Honestly, I think they're all quite beneficial in the mental health area, especially MDMA. You don't need a diagnosed disorder or marriage problems to benefit from that kind of change in thought processes.

Quote:
They shouldn't be using them...
Why not?

Maybe it's just me, but I place mental health above physical health, and am generally willing to sacrifice a little health for a ton of fun.

I'll be rolling tomorrow night if all goes according to plan. I'm completely happy with my decision to start doing drugs, and the idea that I could be thrown in jail and kicked out of college for these things is ****ing ridiculous.
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:35 AM #276
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ALL drugs should not be legal. Cocaine (not crack or freebase), Shrooms, Weed, etc should not be punished by law.

Meth, freebase, pcp, MDMA etc should and its plain stupid for them not to be.

Coming from an ex skyhighatrist/scarekrow, certain drugs just shouldn't be floating around.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:34 AM #277
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If people would learn how to be responsible and mature with drugs and stay in their own house to avoid harming someone. I'm somewhat ok with it. But no, people continue to be careless with it and get high and go driving on the streets risking lives or taking too much and od'ing on it, so its illegal. Take this into consideration, alcohol is LEGAL, to people over 21 that is, but do people drink responsibly? no they dont, so legalizing drugs makes no sense.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:48 AM #278
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Originally Posted by Death Leprechaun II View Post
ALL drugs should not be legal. Cocaine (not crack or freebase), Shrooms, Weed, etc should not be punished by law.

Meth, freebase, pcp, MDMA etc should and its plain stupid for them not to be.

Coming from an ex skyhighatrist/scarekrow, certain drugs just shouldn't be floating around.
MDMA shouldn't be legal... What the christ? MDMA can be used responsibly with ease. I can see making a case for outlawing Meth and PCP (though I disagree), but absolutely not MDMA. The main danger with MDMA is that street **** is cut with meth and other ****ty fillers because it's illegal.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:21 PM #279
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This whole debate just seems so backwards. Those who support the legalization of drugs seem to do so only for selfish reasons: "I should be able to choose what I put in my body", "Less taxes for me", etc, etc. When really it should be, like every other decision, a questions of if it's right or wrong. Do drugs, besides the rare medicinal use, contribute whatsoever positively to society? No! If anything they harm it. Their use cause physical damage to our bodies and minds, they cause harmful addictions that can obscure your judgment. They can cause the loss of the control of your body upon which you could harm someone else (I the utmost contempt for people who drive under the influence). Of course fighting the drug problem is hard, but it should be done because it is the right thing to do. And I also believe this to be true of other substances. I don't drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, and I even try to avoid caffeinated drinks when I can. I do this because these things to don't have any positive effects on me or other people, other than to satisfy oneself. My 2 cents.

Last edited by Paintbawler1 : 01-29-2008 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:30 PM #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apunkjunkie View Post
I understand where you're coming from. I do think an ex-crackhead who now only smokes pot is a better member of society. However, I believe he should still be considered a violent offender because he has shown a propensity towards violence. Some people are programed to be more violent than others. Your friends that smoke pot and don't go out and start fights don't have that propensity towards violence, but others do.

I have...well had ....many friends that would smoke pot. They, too, were productive members of society. However, not everyone is like that. I work in the ghettos a large majority of the time. I work in a place where hardly anyone has a job, and if they do its a minimum-wage-go-nowhere job. The government pays for their food, clothing, rent, and utilities....all the money they earn goes for fast food, drugs, rent-a-furniture, or a nicer car than I can afford to drive. Some of those people are thieves too. However, a lot of those thieves smoke pot. Its a different culture in the poor areas of your town. I wouldn't recommend anyone going down there to study it, but if you drive through some of the projects during normal working hours, you'll see what I mean.

Let me use a different example. Would you generally consider gangs violent? I don't think there is anyone that doesn't. However, not all gang members have been convicted of a violent crime. Yet, a lot of gang members smoke weed. So should a gang member, not convicted of a violent crime, get a pass when it comes to the drug charge? I think not. I've locked gang members up for weed, then searched their car incident to arrest and found a stolen gun. Weed is a great gateway into getting illegal guns off the street and finding other stolen property or using it to make them roll on bigger fish.
So basically, you have the idea that "innocent until proven guilty" is not a good thing? Wow. I am speechless. We are one step closer to fascism with ideals like this.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:54 PM #281
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So basically, you have the idea that "innocent until proven guilty" is not a good thing? Wow. I am speechless. We are one step closer to fascism with ideals like this.
Come on Bunkered....I know you're smarter than that. I didn't say anything about anyone being innocent or guilty....however, I think its a shame that guilty people are found innocent and set free.

Anyways, so you're saying that the guy who has beat his wife and been convicted 4 or 5 times should be treated like a guy who beat his wife for the first time? He should be listed as a violent offender and receive a harsher punishment the next time he commits a crime.
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:41 PM #282
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Originally Posted by apunkjunkie View Post
Come on Bunkered....I know you're smarter than that. I didn't say anything about anyone being innocent or guilty....however, I think its a shame that guilty people are found innocent and set free.

Anyways, so you're saying that the guy who has beat his wife and been convicted 4 or 5 times should be treated like a guy who beat his wife for the first time? He should be listed as a violent offender and receive a harsher punishment the next time he commits a crime.
We are talking in the context of non-violent and violent drug offenders. Thus, if a guy beat his wife in the past, I don't see how that has any relevance to him being caught with drugs at that moment. The two incidents are separate.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:03 PM #283
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Originally Posted by Paintbawler1 View Post
This whole debate just seems so backwards. Those who support the legalization of drugs seem to do so only for selfish reasons: "I should be able to choose what I put in my body", "Less taxes for me", etc, etc. When really it should be, like every other decision, a questions of if it's right or wrong. Do drugs, besides the rare medicinal use, contribute whatsoever positively to society? No! If anything they harm it. Their use cause physical damage to our bodies and minds, they cause harmful addictions that can obscure your judgment. They can cause the loss of the control of your body upon which you could harm someone else (I the utmost contempt for people who drive under the influence). Of course fighting the drug problem is hard, but it should be done because it is the right thing to do. And I also believe this to be true of other substances. I don't drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, and I even try to avoid caffeinated drinks when I can. I do this because these things to don't have any positive effects on me or other people, other than to satisfy oneself. My 2 cents.

sure but its not the governments right to play our big brother, nanny, mother, father.

granted most drugs are bad and some worse than others. marijuana is the least harmful. yet alchohol which contributes an insane amount of deaths is legal.

i'd say the gov't is doin a damn good job.

not to mention the war on drugs is not working. a blackmarket has been created. if i want a dimebag im a phone call away and realistically there isnt much in my way.

i think marijuana should be decriminalized but not legal. i have not seen any evidence where people commit crimes on the level of other drugs such as coke, meth and so on.

it is senseless to arrest millions of citizens for having marijuana on them. i for one do not care if people want to smoke it in no way effects me whatsoever. i'd like to see my tax dollars going toward something more useful like repairing our damned economy.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:06 PM #284
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Originally Posted by Paintbawler1 View Post
This whole debate just seems so backwards. Those who support the legalization of drugs seem to do so only for selfish reasons: "I should be able to choose what I put in my body", "Less taxes for me", etc, etc. When really it should be, like every other decision, a questions of if it's right or wrong. Do drugs, besides the rare medicinal use, contribute whatsoever positively to society? No! If anything they harm it. Their use cause physical damage to our bodies and minds, they cause harmful addictions that can obscure your judgment. They can cause the loss of the control of your body upon which you could harm someone else (I the utmost contempt for people who drive under the influence). Of course fighting the drug problem is hard, but it should be done because it is the right thing to do. And I also believe this to be true of other substances. I don't drink alcohol, smoke tobacco, and I even try to avoid caffeinated drinks when I can. I do this because these things to don't have any positive effects on me or other people, other than to satisfy oneself. My 2 cents.
Who are you to tell me if it's right or wrong? I don't see it as wrong at all. **** you, not all my actions need to contribute to society, I'm the important one here in my life. The wrong thing to do is take away my freedom to use drugs responsibly.
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