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Old 01-16-2008, 11:05 PM #64
aieou
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Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
You apparently know very little about raising meat for food. Proper nutrition is extremely important in raising livestock. Farmers spend huge amounts of money trying to keep their livestock's diet healthy and nutritious.
You're right, I don't know much about raising livestock for food.

But I do know about the many cases of madcow killing Americans and have read reports on growth hormones that are being given to cattle for weight gain purposes, which has been linked to certain cancers.

Do you think that the drugs these animals are being given pose absolutely no risk towards someones health that ingests them?

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Old 01-16-2008, 11:10 PM #65
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Originally Posted by CerealKillr View Post
Yeah, I am.

And Contrary to popular belief, meat is not good for you. Non meat eaters have realized lower colesterol and blood pressure, lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. Research shows that vegitarians are 50% less likely to develop heart disease, and have 40% the cancer rate as compared to their meat eating equivelent.

And, According to a major 2006 Harvard study of 135,000 people, people who frequently ate grilled skinless chicken had a 52 percent higher chance of developing bladder cancer compared to people who didnít.

Meat also contains numerous amounts of carcinogens(cancer causing agents) adn poisons.

And just becasue, "weve done it for thousands of years." doesnt make it better. Things change becasue people realize "wow, this ir ridiculous.". Lynching, guilotine, "racial equality", etc.

Here's the bottom line, you can't tell people what they can and can't eat. Animals are below us on the food chain. If you think being a vegetarian is best for you, so be it, but maybe other people could otherwise careless about what health effects come from eating meat? Maybe we should make everything that gives you a tummy ache, or cancer illegal?

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Old 01-16-2008, 11:25 PM #66
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Originally Posted by aieou View Post
You're right, I don't know much about raising livestock for food.

But I do know about the many cases of madcow killing Americans and have read reports on growth hormones that are being given to cattle for weight gain purposes, which has been linked to certain cancers.

Do you think that the drugs these animals are being given pose absolutely no risk towards someones health that ingests them?
Each year there are more cases of food-borne illness attributable to organic fruits and vegetables than to meat. The American livestock supply is arguably the safest in the world.

What are these many cases of mad cow disease killing Americans that you're talking about? Are you talking about FUD like this, or does the term many mean something different to you than it does to me?
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:26 PM #67
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I used to work at a health food store, and I used to hear **** like this all the time. People would spend $30-$40 more on food there, than at a regular supermarket to be 'healthy'. Then, one day, a family who shopped there regularly got hit by a drunk driver, and they all subsequently died. I've seen people drop $500, every single month to maintain their health, and they get cancers in places you couldn't imagine.

Bored housewives would gather in the vitamin aisle at the store I worked at, and chatted for hours about supplements [While, 99% of the time reciting articles from the last hippy 'Im holier than thou, I read this magazine' magazine] and spend hundreds of dollars, only to get blindsided by something unforseeable. Meanwhile, one of guys I worked with, had a grandmother who was 103, ate EVERYTHING, and had few health problems, other than old age. I've heard stories like this time, and time again. People who smoke and drank religiously for 40 years, and lived to be 90-something years old.

The point I'm trying to make is; worrying about your health to a fanatical level is pointless. There's millions of factors and odds that say that you could isolate yourself in a plastic ball, eat soy and take a million dollars worth of supplements a year, and you'll still die an early death. It's good to be healthy, and take an interest in your health, but IN MODERATION. It's the same with EVERYTHING. You only have one life, live it, have fun, and take everything in moderation, but don't turn yourself into a health drone, only to get yourself killed by something your supplements and soy milk can't protect you against.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:04 AM #68
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Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge View Post
The point I'm trying to make is; worrying about your health to a fanatical level is pointless.
While this may be the case in the long run, if tight control on your diet brings you happiness and makes you feel better, then heck I'm all for it. As far as life and death goes, yes it's important, but to some it's worth focusing on the minute details.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:06 AM #69
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Originally Posted by Mosati View Post
Each year there are more cases of food-borne illness attributable to organic fruits and vegetables than to meat. The American livestock supply is arguably the safest in the world.

What are these many cases of mad cow disease killing Americans that you're talking about? Are you talking about FUD like this, or does the term many mean something different to you than it does to me?
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Originally Posted by www.cdc.gov
To better quantify the impact of foodborne diseases on health in the United States, we compiled and analyzed information from multiple surveillance systems and other sources. We estimate that foodborne diseases cause approximately 76 million illnesses, 325,000 hospitalizations, and 5,000 deaths in the United States each year. Known pathogens account for an estimated 14 million illnesses, 60,000 hospitalizations, and 1,800 deaths. Three pathogens, Salmonella, Listeria, and Toxoplasma, are responsible for 1,500 deaths each year, more than 75% of those caused by known pathogens, while unknown agents account for the remaining 62 million illnesses, 265,000 hospitalizations, and 3,200 deaths. Overall, foodborne diseases appear to cause more illnesses but fewer deaths than previously estimated.
More than one death as a result of malpractice is considered one too many to me though.

I'm kind of unsure why you're carrying on about how vegetables cause more food borne related deaths than meat (based on your own facts). If you would have fully comprehended my first post then you would have understood that I was bringing up only the risks of consuming meat. I wasn't saying that one lifestyle is'nt as safe as the other.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:12 AM #70
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More than one death as a result of malpractice is considered one too many to me though.

I'm kind of unsure why you're carrying on about how vegetables cause more food borne related deaths than meat (based on your own facts). If you would have fully comprehended my first post then you would have understood that I was bringing up only the risks of consuming meat. I wasn't saying that one lifestyle is'nt as safe as the other.
I thought you were using the safety of meat products to support vegetarianism, sorry for the confusion. Although, my comment is relevant in the scope of the discussion.
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:00 PM #71
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Originally Posted by CerealKillr View Post
And Contrary to popular belief, meat is not good for you. Non meat eaters have realized lower colesterol and blood pressure, lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer. Research shows that vegitarians are 50% less likely to develop heart disease, and have 40% the cancer rate as compared to their meat eating equivelent than some fat bastards that ate too much meat and got high cholestrol, diabetes, diseases and cancer.

And, According to a major 2006 Harvard study of 135,000 people, people who frequently ate grilled skinless chicken had a 52 percent higher chance of developing bladder cancer compared to people who didnít. So they determined that 52% of these people had a higher chance of developing bladder cancer from grilled skinless chicken in 1 year? Amazing how research is so fast nowadays .....

Meat also contains numerous amounts of carcinogens(cancer causing agents) and poisons. Yes when they are raw or come from an unknown source such as what you would get from hunting ... if even then.

And just becasue, "weve done it for thousands of years." doesnt make it better. Things change becasue people realize "wow, this is ridiculous.". Lynching, guilotine, "racial equality", etc. sorry but animal rights are not on the same level as human rights. People being senselessly murdered had to change unlike animals being killed for our meals.
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:40 PM #72
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Animal rights is a joke. Literally like 80% or some outrageous number like that of medical advances starting with some form of animal testing. Without animal testing we would barely have a medical industry.

And personally I despise most vegetarians. They're like really devout christians. You think eating meat is wrong? Great but I don't so don't push your views on me. Eating meat is completely natural and I see no valid reason why that should change.
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:44 PM #73
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We can kill animals with the pull of a trigger. We are the dominant species. They don't have rights because we say they don't.
So a person with a gun has rights and a person without one doesn't? Not how it works, scooter. Just cause you CAN kill something doesn't mean that it is acceptable.
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Old 01-20-2008, 06:13 PM #74
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So a person with a gun has rights and a person without one doesn't? Not how it works, scooter. Just cause you CAN kill something doesn't mean that it is acceptable.
I don't consider killing anything to be a good thing. However, I put my own wants and needs before considering the rights of an animal with minimal intelligence.

Also you can't compare the murder of a human being to that livestock.
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Old 01-20-2008, 06:29 PM #75
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I don't consider killing anything to be a good thing. However, I put my own wants and needs before considering the rights of an animal with minimal intelligence.

Also you can't compare the murder of a human being to that livestock.
I never said I was against laboratory testing or similar things. I am, however, opposed to unnecessary creulty of any kind.
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:34 PM #76
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Animal rights HA! all I can say to animal rights is lol.
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Old 01-21-2008, 03:50 PM #77
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Meat is not the only source of protein. Its the same how some saltwater/freshwater fish can survive in either environment. Naturally they are in one environment, but they can survive in the other. The same goes for meat vs. plants. When was the last time you ate raw meat? I don't think any other Omni or carnivores need to cook their meat before eating it.
What a horrible argument. We don't need to cook our meat inorder to eat it. We cook our meat to limit our exposure, and ergo possible contraction of diseases. Cooking meat is the equivalent of washing vegetables. Additionally many dishes involve uncooked meats (steak/ pork tatar, and sushi are popular examples). Additionally many meats like various "cold cuts" are smoked, salted, or cured, either for taste, or to preserve the meat.

By your logic people shouldn't eat vegetables because some people cook them, freeze or dry them (or other means to preserve them), and att eh very least wash them as to limit the risk of contracting a disease.

As for do animals have rights? I feel rights are granted by society based upon an individuals ability to think (I usually carry this argument on in depth and apply it to abortion). Most animals have no thought logical, coherent though process, nor are they self aware. Therefore they not granted rights by society.

Now some food for thought: Everyone that says that killing animals for food is wrong... if you eat vegetables that are commercially grown... not something you grew yourself,... animals have died to bring you that produce. Modern farming techniques garuntee thousands of animals die during harvesting every year... shouldn't the animals death at least serve the purpose of human sustenance? Is there really a moral difference between eating the animal, and eating food that was harvested (where animals were killed ion the process)?
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Old 01-21-2008, 04:14 PM #78
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Old 01-22-2008, 12:42 AM #79
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killing an animal for survival is one thing, however killing an animal to hang it's head or rack on the wall of your double wide is a different matter!
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Old 01-22-2008, 11:53 AM #80
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People still eat that animal they shoot.
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Old 01-24-2008, 09:12 AM #81
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No. Rights only exist if you are capable of defending them and are not inheritly granted to any being or entity regardless of what any document tells you. To anyone who disagrees, remember how many people have died and suffered to secure various rights for you and also recall how many attempts there have been to infringe upon those rights.
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:19 PM #82
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We can kill animals with the pull of a trigger. We are the dominant species. They don't have rights because we say they don't.
My thought exactly.

If it is natural for us to become the dominant species, then I believe it's only natural for us to use this weaker species for our benefit (such as animal testing). Hunting is fine because... well... we obviously need animals to live. Otherwise we'd be pure herbivores.
However, using this dominance to simply torture and brutalize animals is wrong.

It's the food chain. We are at the top because we are intelligent and know how to use resources. The animals directly beneath us rely on pure brute force and little intelligence (with the exception of few).
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