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Old 12-13-2007, 12:01 AM #1
paintball_junkie187
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And that is what grinds my gears....

First of all, I would like to make this clear. I am not trying to start any beef or hate on anyone. That being said....

Why is it, that even though there are only a handful of indoor fields (Stinger, Nelson, BFG, Siege) as paintball players we are forced to choose between playing tournies on the same date (Sunday Jan 6th for example). I preach against this very thing in summer and am a little more understanding when there are 10 fields or more within 75 miles of each other trying to work around each others schedules. But in the freaking winter ?? I mean c'mon, this really isnt this hard. I am not putting the fault on anyone's door. I believe that every field in WI has the intentions of growing the sport and making the Midwest a stronger paintball presence. Yet, here we are again. Now I am ready for some to make the argument that the tournies being held on the 6th target different groups, BFG's for the newer players and Stingers for the slightly more advanced (slightly meaning PSP's D4). But for everyone who has read my rants before (which many of you have since Ive been on the soapbox for 5 years) you all know that having tournies the same day and making people pick and choose dilutes the talent pool. In some cases the choosing comes down to sponsorship and field loyaly. Both admiral trairts, dont get me wrong. But if the same people and teams are always playing at the same locations and arent out mixing it up with the other players in the state, how are people getting better ??

Paintball is no different than any other sport or hobby. To grow and become better, you need to challenge yourself. You need to play better players than yourself. This is exactly where having "newbie" and "rookie" and "young gun" and every other Sally name tourney takes away from the talent pool. If given the choice, people will almost always sandbag into the easier of the two choices. Odds of winning and possibility to profit from prize winnings always carries enough appeal that the majority take the easy road. By having multiple tourneys the same day, the choice is made that much easier for those individuals. How many times this summer were there 3 or more tournies held on the same day and most if not all cancelled because they did not get enough teams to hit there minimums ?? I recall several occurences. Typically each field had a minimum of 8 teams or so. When Sunday came, each field had between 4 and 6 teams. Hmmmm, 4 fields having between 4 and 6 teams...Geez, sure would have been nice to go to maybe one or two tournies that had 8-12 teams and actually happened versus getting cancelled the night before. And dare I dream the impossible dream and think about going to a local tourney where there was 12, 15 maybe 20 of WI's finest all in the same place and the same time ...???...No, I cant, its too much to hope for. Something like that would take, gosh, unselfishness, coordination, teamwork....I must be getting tired from all of this ranting.

Sorry, I digressed a little there. But I think you can get any idea of what Im saying here. If people disagree and can give some positive feedback and insight, I would be grateful. I am not on here to start crap or take anything away from paintball in the great state of WI, quite the opposite infact. Truth be told, I dont have nearly as much to gain as all of you young whipper snappers coming up. Ive been in this beast for ten years already. My time has come and gone, and I still suck But what I still want to see is Wisco tourney ball go back to what it used to be 5 or 6 years ago. The best teams grinding it out against each other all over the state, making each other better and bringing more faces into the ranks.

Im done now. My Rockstar is wearing off and I have to get up early for work. Let me know how ya'll feel. I just ask that you keep your comments neutral or at least productive. Or if you just feel like telling me I suck at paintball, well, you certainly wont be the first or the last.

Im off this piece....

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Old 12-13-2007, 12:25 AM #2
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yeah i think its kinda dumb to do that but i think the fields do it for competition so one field makes the other earn less money from entries and business. thats my take.

even tho i havent seen you play or know who you are you dont suck and prob rock and kickass on the field

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Old 12-13-2007, 12:52 AM #3
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Thats a good question, and good post not a typical angry nation complaining post.

I don't really know why either, would be a nice question to have answered from different fields to gain a multidimensional perspective.

I know one reason is being that if you want to play one tournament and its a lower class it will be less stressful to play because you won't have to worry about the sandbagging team show up to it; because they'll be at the big tournament trying to win some cash money.


-->Maybe this would be a good post for the field owners thread? Ask the owners themseleves. Just my two pennies.
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:26 AM #4
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yeah i think its kinda dumb to do that but i think the fields do it for competition so one field makes the other earn less money from entries and business. thats my take.


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Old 12-13-2007, 11:21 AM #5
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This is about the players winning, not any one particular field.
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Old 12-13-2007, 12:41 PM #6
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you have a good point junkie, i dont understand why they just dont plan tournaments for alternate dates, and not the same date as another tourny. Especially in the winter season
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Old 12-13-2007, 12:49 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintball_junkie187
But what I still want to see is Wisco tourney ball go back to what it used to be 5 or 6 years ago.
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Old 12-13-2007, 01:09 PM #8
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I know what you mean C-Rad. Here is my perspective on this as a field owner/ manager. All the things i have going on at my field, private parties, team practice, open play and not the mention non-paintball related events i cant plan my fields schedule arround other fields. I have worked with some fields in the area, Nelson in GB for example, to try to schedule our tournies arround each other. But some other fields, wont mention any names, just pretend they dont have to do this for the betterment of the sport.

In all honesty I dont feel i HAVE to do this either. In the 1 1/2 years we have been open we have only had to cancel 1 tournament. Most of the tournies we have had filled up to capacity. I do however want to work with other fields and field owners to get as many teams at each event as possible. The simple fact is some fields have done things to turn players off a certain field and ppl wont play there for any reason. We have run, for the most part, good, fairly reffed, well spoken of tournaments. I think the fact that most players have had a good experience at our tournaments does more to get new teams and have teams return than any of the prizes we offer.

Hope what i had to say answers some questions ppl have from a field owners point of view. If you want to tell me i am wrong you can do that on the field.

Peace out yo,
Biggie.
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Old 12-13-2007, 02:05 PM #9
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WI had a strong tournament team showing?

What?

j/k
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Old 12-13-2007, 02:34 PM #10
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When planning our tournaments we never purposely schedule one the same day as another field. Occassionally we have found out after the fact (we've already advertised, etc) that another field has something planned, but at that point it is usually too late to change the date. Sometimes we are also restricted on dates do to factors such as our team's availability or our (the owner's) availability to be at the field which may cause us to plan an event the same day as another field, but we try and avoid this as much as possible.

As for sandbagging, players need to take more of a responsibility to stop this. Fields need to have newbie tournaments and other such events to get new players interested in tournament paintball.
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:10 PM #11
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My 2 cents:

Field Owners need to drop the issues between one another. This is a competitive market but alot of times FO's act like children. Bottom line is we need to compete together against people not playing paintball instead of people playing at certain fields. The PSP and NPPL pull local dollars out of paintball and leave participants for the most part unsatisfied with their experience at national level events. Turning them off to paintball in general. Players fantasize that they should recieve full ride sponsorship and be paid to play or play for free. Get real.
The bottom line is the industry as a whole has abandoned its front line troops, the field owner. Without field owners and multiple fields around there is less exposure for the sport. With Uber online retailers and average joe's online emporium selling things for pennies over FO cost we are cannabalizing the industry.
Stop trading your ****! Trading your used equipment does nothing to improve the paintball economy or the landscape of paintball in general. You want Wisconsin Paintball to improve.... Get out and do someting about it.

Stop complaining about the old days, when fields actually turned profits and players didnt snivel at prices, go out and get more people involved in the sport. Make an impact, support local businesses and for Christ sake stop buying **** online! Soon a time will come when you and you super upped 1400 gun that you got for under cost will sit on a shelf or be traded online for pennies because all the grassroots fields around you closed. And then you can sit and wonder what happened to the good old days...


Fire Extinguisher ready.....
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:26 PM #12
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I think Chad wants to fight with me!

J/K bro. What he says is true for the most part. you want to support your local field, have better tournament with good prizes and stuff like that. Then truely support the field. Next time you need something go there to buy it. Screw saving a few bucks by shopping online. What do you gain by that in the end? The few extra dollars something may cost at the local field/ store really helps them in providing you with better events, facilities, and all arround better experience.

I agree also that the local fields need to work together to make things better. If there was a tournament circuit in the local area that went to different fields during the year would teams play it. I know some would but some of the field owners dont like their home teams playing at other fields. Maybe something like this can be worked out in the near future, but that again is up to the players truely supporting local paintball.

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Old 12-13-2007, 05:33 PM #13
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My 2 cents:

Field Owners need to drop the issues between one another. This is a competitive market but alot of times FO's act like children. Bottom line is we need to compete together....Players fantasize that they should recieve full ride sponsorship and be paid to play or play for free. Get real.

Stop trading your ****! Trading your used equipment does nothing to improve the paintball economy or the landscape of paintball in general. You want Wisconsin Paintball to improve.... Get out and do someting about it.

Stop complaining about the old days, when fields actually turned profits and players didnt snivel at prices, go out and get more people involved in the sport. Make an impact, support local businesses and for Christ sake stop buying **** online! ....


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I think Chad wants to fight with me!

J/K bro. What he says is true for the most part. you want to support your local field, have better tournament with good prizes and stuff like that. Then truely support the field. Next time you need something go there to buy it. Screw saving a few bucks by shopping online. What do you gain by that in the end? The few extra dollars something may cost at the local field/ store really helps them in providing you with better events, facilities, and all arround better experience.

I agree also that the local fields need to work together to make things better. If there was a tournament circuit in the local area that went to different fields during the year would teams play it. I know some would but some of the field owners dont like their home teams playing at other fields. Maybe something like this can be worked out in the near future, but that again is up to the players truely supporting local paintball.

Biggie.
to you both, SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FIELDS!!!All of them...buying online may be a couple bucks cheaper, but when the **** breaks in the middle of a day o ballin, where ya gettin parts or tech help from? shippin it back to Cuckamunga may put a damper on using that machine gun for a bit!!! Everything costs money=fact of life......mortgages,utility's,insurance,etc..all don't pay themselves. But givin the choice I'd rather pay a bit more and know that I have a local store/field there that I can get **** from/play at , as well as the "regulars" treatment when I show up to play/shop, whatever.


but back to the topic, **** happens and many times these dates are chosin a bit in advance to accomadate private parties, staff schedules, life in general. The "sally" level tourneys are held so that 10 year old Jr. doesn't get his *** shot off and never wants to play paintball again, as his experience grows the ROF increase's are just a givin. just my 2 cents, thanks
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:03 PM #14
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I love how some of us get bashed for ordering stuff on-line!!!
Here is something for the store owners that hate us that order on-line.
4 Weeks ago I bought 500.00 dollars worth of stuff from BFG.
3 weeks ago I spent 800.00 at Stinger. Last week I bought 300.00 worth of gear and paint.
I've spent a ton at Siege in gear and paint.
And guess what guys I'm still going to order on-line. I order my parts for my Shocker from SP. WHY? They have what I need and they get it to me FAST. I order from on-line because they are a Paintball business too. So I support both my fields AND on-line. Oh by the way I save WAY more then pennies some times. I need money for paint to practice and for tournies AND to keep my gear running. So please stop taking your anger out on those of us that are trying to get a deal.
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:56 PM #15
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Maybe you should spend your money here and then we can talk

Im not Hating on Online buyers I'm just frustrated as most field owners are about the future of paintball. Mfg'ers and Distributors cant figure out why the industry is hurting and I am spelling it out to you in simple black and white. Where do you expect to get an air fill when the fields close the doors? As a Player I have ordered from Online sites many times, hell as a retail store/field I have ordered from those same sites to supply customers in a rush, at a loss. I dont disagree with you comments I disagree with the state of the industry and the overall apathy. Sorry I chose to rant and you felt insulted.

**dusts off soap box...ushers next contestant**
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:11 PM #16
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i just had a random thought and i thought i would decide to post, but..

seige, stinger, and pe should make a mini series together, and every event would change locations....1st at pe,2nd at stinger, 3rd at seige then repeat...

make it same prices and small prized each event.. like 1st gets their money back in cash plus something like masks or sumthin..then idk bout 2nd and third, and then at the end of the summer, the winner of the series could get more stuff or sumthin...and there could be like 2 divisions or sumthin

this way there would be no big local events happen on the same day

i havent really thought anything out it was just a thought lol
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:16 PM #17
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i guess i dont play at seige so idk if they got a full xball field so ^^ minus seige if they dont
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:43 PM #18
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Maybe you should spend your money here and then we can talk

Im not Hating on Online buyers I'm just frustrated as most field owners are about the future of paintball. Mfg'ers and Distributors cant figure out why the industry is hurting and I am spelling it out to you in simple black and white. Where do you expect to get an air fill when the fields close the doors? As a Player I have ordered from Online sites many times, hell as a retail store/field I have ordered from those same sites to supply customers in a rush, at a loss. I dont disagree with you comments I disagree with the state of the industry and the overall apathy. Sorry I chose to rant and you felt insulted.

**dusts off soap box...ushers next contestant**
I will. I always to when I go to a field....not just paint or air or field fee.
I've been in this sport a long time. I know what you guys are going through trust me.
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:55 PM #19
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Battlefield Paintball in Osseo has been trying to get tournaments going all year and not one of them even happened. I now the owner there was getting quite frustrated because he had his dates posted at least 6 weeks in advance and yet no one showed. Even if their wasn't another tounry happening. We tried to make everything player friendly, cheap entry, cheap paint prices, and still give out really good prizes. Still nothing. I also know he wants to get other field owners together for a tourny series throughout the state. I also know that a couple other nearby field owners are not very pleasant towards him which might explain a few things, since these fields have been in operation quite a few more years than he has. Yet his sponsered team, which I am a part of, still participate at tournys hosted by these fields. So i think field owners may be discouraging their sponsored teams from going to tournys at other fields where there is bad blood between the owners.

And I say grow up and stop behaving like kids, put your petty differences aside and support our sport.
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Old 12-13-2007, 08:23 PM #20
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Stop complaining about the old days, when fields actually turned profits and players didnt snivel at prices, go out and get more people involved in the sport. Make an impact, support local businesses and for Christ sake stop buying **** online! Soon a time will come when you and you super upped 1400 gun that you got for under cost will sit on a shelf or be traded online for pennies because all the grassroots fields around you closed. And then you can sit and wonder what happened to the good old days...
In my opinion trading guns increases the money for sponsorship so the sport can improve. It makes it more available for T.V., gives certain players salary's, and supports everyone who's sponsored under that company's name. If people stopped B/S/T'ing there wouldnt be such a big market for big company's to generate enough money to live as millionares and support the whole national paintball scene with there teams and such.

I always wondered what ever happened to the WI league? Wasn't it called the Midwest open or something this was like 4 years ago when i first started playing i dont really remember much about it. I still think that a local league between fields would work. There'd be more participation in the sport in WI.

Just my .02

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Yet his sponsered team, which I am a part of, still participate at tournys hosted by these fields. So i think field owners may be discouraging their sponsored teams from going to tournys at other fields where there is bad blood between the owners.
I know some of the reasons why we can't play tourneys is because some of our guys are D2 which causes problems for some of the local tourneys who only allow D3 and below

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Old 12-13-2007, 10:07 PM #21
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i think the wisconsin fields should not only do a general series but a college and high school series too
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