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Old 12-13-2007, 02:17 PM #22
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and that's why I found it hilarious when I figured out who ordered me to be shot barney That sort of thing is just par for the course and I'm fine with it. At least you didn't have 6 refs run over to make me say a diatribe of things.
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Old 12-13-2007, 10:06 PM #23
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Originally Posted by 10-shot kid View Post
When is the last time a non team player who doesn't fill out command positions got any sort of meaningful award at a game?
It hasn't been very long at all.
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:06 PM #24
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associator: like at one of the, for lack of a better term, "serious" scenario games or at one of those dime a dozen local field games?



I posted this at specops as well and got this wonderful little gem in my e-mail box,

10-shot kid,

WardenWolf has sent you this email from
http://forum.specialopspaintball.com/index.php.


Reason: Posted a thread promoting theft, violation of game rules,
fraud, rigging a scenario game, unsportsmanlike conduct, and general bad
behavior. Basically "How to ruin a major scenario for a LOT of people."
That's seriously NOT cool. People pay a lot of money for these scenarios,
and having it ruined by someone who refuses to follow the game rules
and decides to make up their own set of rules for cheap entertainment is
NOT acceptable, and this forum is not an acceptable place to promote
that kind of play.


Thread title: "How to play like a scumbag"
http://forum.specialopspaintball.com...ent ry1794281

---------------------------------------------------
Please note that Special Ops Forum has no control over the
contents of this message.
---------------------------------------------------



I'll respond latter when I feel like it.
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Old 12-13-2007, 11:51 PM #25
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associator: like at one of the, for lack of a better term, "serious" scenario games or at one of those dime a dozen local field games?
All at Skirmish. Not many people know who I am, and I come with only 1 or 2 people per game. I have won MVP at Operation Barbarossa in 2001, MVT (with only 1 other person) at Castle Keep 2004 (we won), and two MVP awards at the last two games I attended this year, Paint the World 1944, and Battle for Berlin. I come by myself or with a friend or two, and work with what I got.
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Old 12-14-2007, 01:25 PM #26
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10 Shot, hysterical, Can I be a Scumbag too?

I seem to remember last ION a group of Germans walking towards the French carrying all sorts of flags.... Would this qualify?

I guess they must have been important with their suits and what not
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Old 12-14-2007, 03:07 PM #27
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I know scenario players love to roleplay but the theft of ID cards is crossing over into "reality". Players are paying for time on the field, and anything you do to prevent them from getting back out there is theft, period. I don't care how relevant it is to the "position" or whatever you are playing in the game. In addition, wristbands are distributed by event coordinators for the sake of organization. Would you make a fake wristband to get in free to your local field?

As a referee and a player I understand the merit of taking advantage of confusing situations, however, one must also be careful to balance personal success during the game and also keeping in mind that other people are paying to play and have a good time and are abiding by "normal" rules. I suppose you would refer to these guys as chumps or such, but I find here the irony that most scenario players critisize tournament players for bending the rules but tend to exhibit the same behavior.

However, thats just my two cents. Otherwise, good job for having the balls to type it out and reply to people's criticisms/inquiries/etc.
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Old 12-14-2007, 03:59 PM #28
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and now my response to warden wolf (and NSG you get covered in the first part too),


The optaining of the ID card issue, I'm guessing, is the only thing that make people think "promoting theft" or "he's downright stealing!" If not done properly, I entirely agree with you. This is the only part of the guide that comes close to brushing with real world law. But It doesn't.

Theft is when you take something from someone without permission with the intent of depriving them of it. Taking an ID and wristband and keeping it is not deriving someone of anything if the field will give them the SAME EXACT thing for free. This means same team, same role, whatever. Then I've deprived someone of nothing.

I've deprived the field of nothing if I have paid entry. Yes I'll make my own armbands and ID cards in extreme cases but never, ever, will I use these to get free entry. That's downright theft and wrong. If the producer doesn't like me making fake proof of entry items for myself than they can stop making them team identifiers like a bunch of knuckleheads.

Even better if their is no game rule against stealing an enemy ID than their is no game rule against stealing an enemy ID. I can steal your entire friggen players back, leaving yu with nothing and having to pay admission again, and have it not be illegale if it's within game rules. Don't believe me go look up the case law or ask a police chief like I have. Personally though, I find that incredibly morally inept and the guide at many points covers this.

If your pissy about it taking up their time... I laugh in your face. That's like saying "oh don't shoot the other team because then they'll have to walk back to insert and that takes really long and they get really tired!" Scenario games are played on and off field. Deal with it or just go to the glue eater big games where roleplaying isn't involved. Don't try to dumb down scenario and get all pissed when someone comes in and outplays you. Or even better do and cry me a river because I am a sadistic SOB.



"violation of game rules"

Only mention at all of that was how I find the airtight "no spy rule" lame and have in the past not adhered to it. Oh I'm so bad. Otherwise following the rules is very concreatly and exactingly gone over throughout the guide.


"fraud"

Not criminally therefore no. Again I've checked with two diffrent police chiefs in person on this. Go read the penal law before accusing me of a crime you ignorant pissant.


"rigging a scenario game, unsportsmanlike conduct, and general bad
behavior."

I laugh in your face again.


"Basically 'How to ruin a major scenario for a LOT of people.'"

So if I wrote a guide on how to keep a team inside their base all day that wouldn't be the same thing? How about if I just wrote a guide on how to dramatically win at big games? When you really get down to it the biproduct of competition, which is what you have when you have 2 groups competing for the same goal, is one group destroying the other groups fun through sucess.

So stop being a prick and shooting people out all the times at games if your any good because it's really ruining the experience for them when they have to walk back home.


"That's seriously NOT cool."

No, your not cool. Nyah Nyah na na Nyah.


"People pay a lot of money for these scenarios, and having it ruined by someone who refuses to follow the game rules and decides to make up their own set of rules for cheap entertainment is NOT acceptable, and this forum is not an acceptable place to promote that kind of play."

Again, point out to me where in the guide (other than the "sometimes I don't follow the no spy rule at scenarios" line) I said "violate the rules, they're for losers not cool people like you!" Quite the opposite. The whole reason why this guide really works is because it's entirely within the rules if applied correctly.

Even if you had a "no spying" rule that you thought was airtight, I know how to get around it. This isn't just how to spy, it's how to roleplay, and there are so many diffrent ways of roleplaying it obviously boggels your mind. And no I'm not saying every single way how to on here, deal with it, or better yet call me a liar. This is a guide on how to use deception, trust, mindsets, and ego's to your advantage on the field.
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Old 12-14-2007, 04:14 PM #29
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wow. i actually read all of that...
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Old 12-14-2007, 04:23 PM #30
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Hey 8 shot do you have a life? or maybe a girlfriend or do you know what a girl is..........lol you fool.....You have way too much time on your hands there twinkle toes.....Anyway don't fret yourself beacause after ION this year you will never play German again at least under my command ............. YOUR FIRED !!!!!!!!!!!!! You and the mob will be shot on site at the next game for being a traitors....
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Old 12-14-2007, 05:03 PM #31
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i didnt ecome close ton reading all this. but if it has anything to do with sneaking around heres my story. ION 06- Im with a group of about 100 germans and we are trying to get to a fuek depot. we run into a larger allied force and the lines are pretty stable for a few minutes. theres a stream to my right. i assume the allies are to lazy to cross it. im correct. i cross it but do so slowly and walk backwards. i see some allies coming torwards me so i fire a few shots torwards my lines. as they get closer i yell at the allies to "move up" one allie asks what team im on. i say " im shooting at germans what team does it look like now move up. one guy actually comes next to me on my right but doesnt notice the the tape on my hopper lol . he also doest notice my Waffen SS Camo or any of my uniform lmao. i wait for a group of about 20 allies to pass. then i just go behind and barrel tap the stragglers one at a time. i got 8 and then shot one while his buddy used him as a sheild lmao. fun stuff.
I can't say I would call that scumbagish either...

I was at Paint The World 44' and I was the Alien Ambassador... since there were so few of us (Silence can attest to this) i went with four other guys as reinforcments to stop a detachment of Allies comming from the beach. low and behold of course were outnumbered by nearly 25ish-8. Yet, with my big orange peice of tape around my hopper i snuck around through the mini hills before you enter the woods, shot two guys... walked behind a bunch of yellow tape weilding allies and slowly started barrel tapping everyone... I got about 10 before the one guy called me an @sshole and started yelling medic after he was dead... the other 9 followed suit...

So I shot two guys in front of me weilded around and the medic was tapping the guys i had b-tapped... mind you every one of them besides one guy moved after he was b-tapped... so then its my Ion and I vs about 8 angry Allied players who just got tagged back in yes i did ramp on them from 25 yards, and i got shot too and as soon as i felt a Paintball i yelled out... it wasn't a safe situation... It's a shame people do things that are so... cheap... I mean Barrel tagging is not cheap... it sucks to have it happen trust me, i think everyone of us has been tagged at least once during our up and comming years of paintball...

But the boundary between what is ethicly correct and not, such as barrel tagging and what to do after it is really based upon the individual's ideals... thus leaving us in a constant stalemate of opinion...
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:41 AM #32
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Grazi: medics can't heal barrle taps at Skirmish games... So there really isn't a gray area on that one. That sort of prick behavior by both players and medics who often know better is the reason pulling barrle taps hardly ever works at skirmish. Go for the close range shot everytime because of it whenever I'm up there.


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Old 12-15-2007, 01:48 AM #33
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lol also why i had to rob you and have u killed during dead wood when u came up to me after i had info that uwere coming for me lol
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:49 AM #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-shot kid View Post
Grazi: medics can't heal barrle taps at Skirmish games... So there really isn't a gray area on that one. That sort of prick behavior by both players and medics who often know better is the reason pulling barrle taps hardly ever works at skirmish. Go for the close range shot everytime because of it whenever I'm up there.


Mark: I'm not Tyrell and I'm not the friggen bloody mob damnit! (mob members will totally get this)
Well although PTW44 was held at Skirmish it wasn't run my Skirmish (it was run by JPazz and the Wulfpack, great group of guys), so perhaps the rules were different or it was just a misunderstanding... in either case that's what happened lol
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Old 12-20-2007, 09:41 PM #35
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Merriam Webster says this about "steal":

A) to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully
B) to take away by force or unjust means
C) to take surreptitiously or without permission


I'm sorry, it seems VERY clear that this falls under the definition of "to steal." Good job. I doubt the argument "I stole it, but I gave it back," is very convincing. "Besides, in the end it only cost him time, a small amount of money (time away from playing), and anxiety. It's not a big deal!"...
I'd rather lose and have a satisfying game (I call it a game because I come to have fun and play well, as do my opponents. You obviously come to win and make people feel like idiots) than have one person make the whole other team feel horribly without giving them a fair chance, and win.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:29 PM #36
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lol. Go read some penal law v. some dictionarys deffinition before telling me I broke the law. And don't worry mate, we'll be seeing each other on the field in no time.
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:37 PM #37
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Its funny. You seem to take winning really, really seriously, yet laws, rules and other things imposed because of scumbags are just things to be bypassed and/or ignored.

Well, who knows whether it will stand up in court, but you condone and encourage stealing. If you disagree, mind giving me a reason why "Steal the ID card whatever way possible" isn't stealing? Is it because you don't have "intent to keep" it? Well, you do have intent to use it unjustly or wrongly, and you are taking it away by force and unjust means, and you are taking it away surreptitiously and without permission.

You really don't care about the sport at all? Make the noobies not want to come back and all that? C'mon man, playing tricky and sneaky is one thing, but there IS a line, and you really seem to be crossing it.

I don't know when "we'll be seeing each other on the field in no time." Care to tell me?
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:40 PM #38
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argelmcgee View Post
Merriam Webster says this about "steal":

I'm sorry, it seems VERY clear that this falls under the definition of "to steal." You are breaking not only the rules of the GAME, you are also breaking American law. Good job. I doubt the argument "I stole it, but I gave it back," would do well in court. "Besides, in the end it only cost him time, a small amount of money (time away from playing), and anxiety. It's not a big deal!" People have been sued for causing anxiety...

I really don't hope I ever have to play against you, or WORSE, on your team. I'd rather lose and have a satisfying game (I call it a game because I come to have fun and play well, as do my opponents. You obviously come to win and make people feel bad) than have one person make the whole other team feel horribly without giving them a fair chance, and win.
Well said Acgelmcgee.

First: Kid, go home, grow up. You are not welcome in this community if you wish to play like that. Viruses like you are a poison in this sport that is slowly tearing it apart.

Second: How dare you call that role-playing? The object of role-playing is to act in a manner that improves that story line and game for all players. Key word, IMPROVE, not capital for your own gain and self-righteous glory. Can it be sneaky and cut throat? Yes it can, but in the confines of the rules of the game, win or lose.
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:49 PM #39
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:08 AM #40
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niffty. Stealing within game rules is a ok in my book. I dunno about you but I sorta thought that's what made scenario scenario. Lets play a game, you get one shot. Go find me a rule book of a major scenario game made before this post that has ANY rule EXCEPT "no spys without..." and I'll say how to get around it.

Your on of those people I've apparently gotten pretty good in the past. Good for you!
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:40 AM #41
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one more question, have you honestly never stolen a prop at a scenario game?
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:48 AM #42
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Viper Rules:
http://www.viperpaintball.com/rules_scenario.pdf

"Personal property of others is to be respected at all time."


GSRP:
http://www.fledglingscenarios.com/Rules_Of_Play.html

"If itís unclear;

If itís not covered in orientation;

If itís in a "grey" area;

If itís not written in the GSRP, game-specific addendum's, or on a game-specific card:

It Does Not Exist.

Ask the Event Director First!"
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