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Old 10-21-2014, 05:37 PM #1
OldSchoolRoo
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
karnivor, cant get my fps over 200

Rebuilt HPR O-rings etc, LPR I-ring replaced, running HPR on tank. IVG is 2-3 threads in. LPR is screwed in all the way in order to have it recock and fire. Can't get the velocity up passed 200, I screw the HPR in till the solenoid 3 way starts to his then back it off.

Wtf do I need to do?
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:04 PM #2
ColonelYun
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how old is your hammer spring? is it a LP spring? (I'm not an electronic cocker guy but I do have a mechanical cocker)
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:19 PM #3
OldSchoolRoo
 
 
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The gun was only used three times and the ivy was screwed all the way out for that time.
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:37 PM #4
OldSchoolRoo
 
 
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Maybe I should be running low pressure out of the tank?
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:07 PM #5
vantrepes
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Your most likely problem is your inline being set too high.
Manually cock the gun.
Turn your LPR down all the way.
Turn your inline reg adjustment screw ALL THE WAY IN.
Gas up the gun.
Now, turn the LPR up until the gun cocks.
Slowly unscrew the inline reg screw as you chrono.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:41 PM #6
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Ok will give that a try thanks
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:26 AM #7
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That didn't seem to work. There was a point where I was adjusting the inline reg and the 3 way solenoid started to his. I kept turning and it eventually stopped.

I tried a different tank with, the ninja SL with the cheapest reg I think it is 800 or 850 output and it seemed to pick up bolo city but I was not at a chrono.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:59 AM #8
vantrepes
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Then there is a problem with the LPR and HRP regs.
If your inline adjustment is making your solenoid hiss, then your LPR is either not doing it's job, or is adjusted incorrectly.
Here's another approach:
Turn the LPR all the way down, as in, unscrew the adjustment knob from the body of the LPR until there is no pressure in the ram.
Turn the HPR all the way down, as in, turn the adjustment screw in the Karni reg all the way in.
Now, manually cycle the block, and chrono the gun as you increase the inline reg setting by unscrewing the adjustment screw. Remember to hold the back block closed to get an accurate reading at the chrono.
At no point during this should there be any pressure in the pneumatics.
That will allow you to isolate the problems and deal with the low velocity, and leaking noid separately.
Once you're shooting at field speed, slowly turn the LPR adjustment knob in until the gun cocks reliably.

A step I skipped before was to set the frame to "Factory Fast" to help eliminate timing problems from effecting the testing. Too short a CON time will require an extremely high LPR setting, while too short a COFF time can drop your velocity, and cause shoot down.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:54 AM #9
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Ok will try that tonight. You know your stuff that is for sure. Something I forgot to add was I tried the Inline off of my oracle after I rebuilt it and I was getting 280s fps down to 240s making me think my inline was bad even after I rebuilt it. I did read that the karnivor inlines were hit and miss. Maybe it is just faulty even after a rebuild.
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:22 PM #10
vantrepes
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The WGP regs are pretty good. Their downfall was being a PITA to adjust in the origonal configuration, so people replaced them. Then, when the reg came out with an external adjustment, well, everyone replaced them before, so they just kept on replacing them.
They are a good reg, they are just odd to adjust, and a little tricky to get apart.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:51 PM #11
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oK so screwed out LPR and screwed in the inline. Never reached any velocity went from a 50 foot bounce that did not even break, then I screwed the inline out gradually till the hex was almost out completely and it only got worse velocity wise with each turn.

No hiss in 3 way the whole time.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:53 PM #12
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And I had it set to factory fast.
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:49 PM #13
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the stock on/off can be starving the reg of air, if you are using the stock on/off.
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:33 AM #14
vantrepes
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The inline is the problem. Rebuild it completely, with a new reg seat, or replace the reg.
Hate to say it, but your bolt is installed with the hole facing down, correct?
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Last edited by vantrepes : 10-23-2014 at 04:36 AM. Reason: Stating the obvious just to be sure
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Old 10-23-2014, 01:17 PM #15
OldSchoolRoo
 
 
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Bolt is correct hole down.

I rebuilt the reg minus the seat. Ordered one to see if that helps. Need a spring too.

Can the shims go bad? They seem really flat. Might swap them out from my oracle reg.

If I did get a new regulator what would you recommend? Price is no matter.
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Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM #16
vantrepes
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I have never seen belvill washers go bad but I guess it could happen. Swapping them is worth a try.
as for modern regs I have no idea. My aa regs haven't let me down so I stick with them. Besides I already have a huge stock pile of parts for them anyway
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Old Today, 01:54 AM #17
Kerby
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There’s a handful of things that I would suggest/comment on in regards to the low velocity:
1. The tank won’t affect low velocity whether it is HPA or LPA. It’s just affects how hard it is on your seals in your regulator.
2. You should definitely look at the ASA (not sure which ASA you used when you tried your oracle reg). I’ve seen a few issues with this on different guns. With one of my Karnivors I have a problem when I screw the knob in completely on the stock ASA it actually seals the tank off. I discovered it by backing the knob off half a turn. I’ve resolved it by simply putting a washer over the thread on the ASA knob. I’ve also seen problems with other guns being starved if the tank is not screwed in enough.
3. The inline reg could be a number of things. I don’t believe your cup seal is your issue. The number one thing I have seen on many of my Karnivors and on others that I have rebuilt is rubbing on the valve stem in the upper half of the regulator. The majority of people complain and change the Karni reg because of inconsistency of shots because they don’t understand what is going on. The belleville washer stackup in the upper half of the reg can bind/scrape/gouge along the valve stem in the middle of the reg. This causes inconsistent pressure, the reg to get stuck, and velocity changes with shots. If there are small burrs on the valve stem, very carefully remove them with a fine file (just til flush) or steel wool. I will typically just polish scratches and burrs out of the stem using steel wool. With proper maintenance on this valve stem I have very consistent shots (with ~5-10 fps) and have never had a problem with any of my Karnis. The second thing would be to examine that the quantity and the stackup of the belleville washers is correct (should be 7 in under/over/under/etc stackup). If they were previously damaged, they may need a replacement (can buy from a site like paintballgateway.com).
4. Board settings could have some effect, however a factory setting would be very unlikely to cause a velocity problem (possibly a feed problem on a slow hopper). Although unlikely, I have seen a dead battery do crazy things on the sear solenoid so make sure you have a new one.
5. The LPR pressure could affect follow on shots and shoot down because of how slow it cycles vs. the timing of the board, but it would not affect velocity of the first shot down the barrel. I typically never set my LPR until I have the velocity (controlled by HPR & timing) close to where I want it, then I fine tune velocity and LPR together.
6. The Valve should not affect velocity from previous uses unless it was replaced with a lower flow valve. I’ve heard rare occasions in which the valve is gummed up causing poor flow but I think other issues were involved. Similarly, the hammer should not affect anything unless the lower tube is gummed up not allowing it to slide properly. Doesn’t hurt to clean these areas.
7. The IVG spring that pushes the hammer could need replacement, but personally I’ve never had to replace one in any of my Karnis. You should be able to get these from paintballgateway for $3. Tightening your IVG to more than 2-3 threads in is not unheard of. It might require a little more.
8. I have seen problems with bolts being switched out on cockers because the vent hole to p-block distance not being the same but this was typically with putting a pre-2k bolt in like a 2005 cocker. Also, you could have velocity drop if the bolt isn’t fully closed to aligned the vent ports. But, this would be obvious if the bolt didn’t close completely. I have seen issues with Karni bolts swelling causing tight movement of the bolt, but this would affect the cycling of the bolt and not the first shot velocity.
9. A proper barrel bore to paint ratio can definitely improve your velocity….or hurt it. The rule of thumb I’ve lived by on my Karnis is if 3 balls don’t roll down the barrel and I can blow 1-3 of them through with a moderate breath (the others may require a slight push with a barrel swab) then that is the bore size I use for the paint.
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