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Old 10-14-2007, 07:08 PM #1
Mike Zamarocy
 
 
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Question We talked about rams, now about regs?

The last post about the state of Rams proved most helpful, and shortly will have the Belsales 44mag on my new Jeff Orr LE. I already have my barrels covered, and also have 2 new bolts to try from Alamo City Paintball. So, the next thing to think about is the high pressure reg. It would seem thant a good 90% of the time, the stock factory reg is decent, but never the best. So then in the case of the Jeff Orr, which would you all suggest as a fast recharge rate reg that would prevent shootdown or any other problems with accuracy? I still have an old Air America Messiah reg, but can't remember if I had the high or low pressure kit in it - are they still around? Would this be a good one to use? Others I remember are the AKA Sidewinder, the MacDev Gladiator, the Palmer Stabilizer (though I think that was best for it's capabilities to handle CO2), and I have been using a CP reg on my SP8 (and the Epiphany kit) with good results.
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:14 PM #2
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AKA still produce the absolute best regs imo - they however do not "look" the best lol!

The sidewinder imo is the best for the cocker because it has a wide pressure range- and the 2liter is alittle faster in recharge rates but you have to choose between 2 pressure ranges- high and low.

Air America Regs are indeed great regs- i have had one on my 2k rf cocker forever and it is indeed a rock solid and great reg.

CP's are popular and good- but tend to have a case+ break in time- the stock WGP regs once broken in after a case are actualy quite nice for stock regs.

If I was to upgrade on my personal cockers my HPR- i would get a sidewinder
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:16 PM #3
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the sidewinder is the best bet for an autococker...i had aka's 2liter reg on two of my guns and it did handle high rof's real well....its jsut the consistency wasnt as good as a sidewinder....if your looking for consistency id go with the sidewinder...if you looking for high rof then the 2liter.....aka says hte recharge rate of the 2liter is higher then the sidewinder...but its all a matter of opinion really...the differences are quite minimal
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:20 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xadion View Post
The sidewinder imo is the best for the cocker because it has a wide pressure range- and the 2liter is alittle faster in recharge rates but you have to choose between 2 pressure ranges- high and low.

If I was to upgrade on my personal cockers my HPR- i would get a sidewinder
see we told u..lol....oh and you dont have to choose springs....now both springs come with the reg and you choose....and its a simple unscrewing of a cap to swap them out...
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:26 PM #5
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:31 PM #6
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like i cant even talk stats nemore.. + - 2 is so rare now adays with the crappy paint that is being sold....on one angle a ball will roll thru a .687, and then at antoher get stuck in a .693...how are we supposed to get it right when paint sucks so bad.....the one time i tried doing a test i acutally hand picked 50 paintballs out of a box jsut to makle sure each was as close to each other in size..and even then the numbers were making me dizzy
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:35 PM #7
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another nice thing with the winder is that it is bottom mounting, the 2litre is mid mounting, which some people dont min but i really dont like that style.
for the price you cant beat the CP, if you have the extra cash and dont mind the plain look of the winder definately pick one up.

and make sure when you get those alamo bolts you post a review!
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:46 PM #8
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CP's are decently priced, consistant, good looking and small. perfect package imo
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:07 PM #9
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Why are you putting so many new parts on something that should perform great out of the box? The only "upgrade" I would consider getting on a Jeff Orr LE is an MQ valve.
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:14 PM #10
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Is Air America around still? Tried to do a search, no luck. Even on PBReview, the link to their website no longer works. As I still had this one laying around, I would like to try it out, but will have to have someone test it to see which spring kit is in it first.

Good that AKA is still around, though they did get hurt with their Merlin.

And I used to have a MacDev too, long ago, but they got sold with my old Eclipse Bushy (that I just can't bear to remove from my sig LOL).
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:27 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBACE1 View Post
Why are you putting so many new parts on something that should perform great out of the box? The only "upgrade" I would consider getting on a Jeff Orr LE is an MQ valve.
Well, cause I do like to personalize my stuff. I never keep stock wheels on my car - sure they hold air, and tires fit them, but for things like SCCA Solo II (Autocross), I need wider rims for wider tires to get more grip, lighter weight for less unsprung weight for handling and braking, and I also choose certain ones because I have to admit, I like the way they look. I hardly ever keep anything stock for long. But, don't get me wrong either - I don't do it just to do it. As you can see here, I try to do some research before I make a decision. And HONESTLY, just how many times has anything stock been perfect? As I said, sure the wheels hold air, they are round, and tires fit on them, but that is about it. They don't have any performance help at all. It is pretty much just something slapped on to get it out the door, and the typical Joe Public could care less either.

As for the MQ? Not interested at all. I am quite fortunate to have a local store who's owner/gunsmith is well recognized for his work on Cockers (and still uses them in tourneys). He has had to undue too many problems involving the MQ's, and is quite convincing not to get one. I could care less about the slight kick a JOLE may give (barely notice compared to an A5, X7, and even less than my Fusion for that matter), and I don't care about shooting (ramping) faster than I can physically pull the trigger. I just want quality of shot (accuracy), and consistency over the chrono (fewest +/- for ball on ball accuracy). Thus why recharge rate is important. Even Smart Parts sends a new reg spring with their Epiphany kit, to help with the recharge rate of their own reg.
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:59 PM #12
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Aka regs.

Mac dev regs.

Palmer regs

They will all do the trick
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Old 10-15-2007, 01:43 AM #13
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I highly HIGHLY recommend the sidewinder, its an awesome reg, not only is it consistent it also can keep up with the ROF just like the 2 liter, sure it has a faster recharge, but when it all comes down to it the difference is minuscule and you would have to shoot 24BPS to have it even make much difference.

I have 2 of them and I love both of them, I got one with the old bulb bottom and one with the straight, doesn't really make any difference, other than looks. it keeps up with my timmy on unlimited ramp, and keeps up with my osiris cocker bouncing up to around 25 or so (settings are for about 28, but I doubt its going full speed even bouncing)...with paint and no chops and not a hint of shootdown!
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:33 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbkid0486 View Post
like i cant even talk stats nemore.. + - 2 is so rare now adays with the crappy paint that is being sold....on one angle a ball will roll thru a .687, and then at antoher get stuck in a .693...how are we supposed to get it right when paint sucks so bad.....the one time i tried doing a test i acutally hand picked 50 paintballs out of a box jsut to makle sure each was as close to each other in size..and even then the numbers were making me dizzy
AMEN! I was beginning to think I was the only one noticing this ...

As for the topic, I think the design of the regulator as far as input placement is an important factor. And here the Sidewinder shines as well, the swivel bottom is a great, clean way to run the line.
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Old 10-15-2007, 03:37 PM #15
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all regs mentioned in this thread are just fine. Yes, that includes the stock one too..
so go for a look.. I doubt you'll be playing co2 on that jeff orr series.. but the 2 liter or cp shorty would look nice on there..
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:54 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbkid0486 View Post
the sidewinder is the best bet for an autococker...i had aka's 2liter reg on two of my guns and it did handle high rof's real well....its jsut the consistency wasnt as good as a sidewinder....if your looking for consistency id go with the sidewinder...if you looking for high rof then the 2liter.....aka says hte recharge rate of the 2liter is higher then the sidewinder...but its all a matter of opinion really...the differences are quite minimal
I have to disagree with you on the sidewinder vs the 2-liter. The 2-liter is much more consistent and higher-flow than the sidewinder. It's a pressure compensating reg. If you don't believe him or me on the flow though, just take one of each and blow through it. If I had to breathe through the sidewinder-or any other reg I've had-I would suffocate. The 2-liter is nice and free though.
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:57 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatdoolinkid View Post
It's a pressure compensating reg.
You intrigue me with this statement. Could you please explain it more? I have seen "fast recharge rate" and "high flow" used to describe regs, but not that description.


Let me see if I can understand this better, let me know if I am wrong? From what I can gather, a reg is a way of controlling the pressure from the bottle, as in converting a high pressure (700psi or higher) to a lower pressure required by the internals of the gun (let's say 200 to around 300 psi) so as to not blow out the internals (hoses, solenoid, valves, etc), yet provide enough for them to work. But it is also a "container" or "reserve" of air held to be ready to be used again instantaneously for the next "dump" into the gun. And it needs to recharge quickly for mega bursts of air continuously. So thus needs an extreme recharge rate in order for the same amount (or psi) every time, in order to give us "ball on ball" accuracy. So that is where the high flow or fast recharge rate comes in. But where would the pressure compensation come in?
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:52 PM #18
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In all honesty...

The stock reg will suit the purpose of an HPR fine. BUT.. If you want to get the best of the best, the 2 liter is, has been, and always will be the best regulator out there. The only thing about it is, you'll want to purchase the high pressure version. If you buy it from Air Soldier Products, it will come with both the Low pressure and High pressure spring.

Aside from this, the Sidewinder falls closely behind, alongside the MacDev Gladiator, Dye Hyper II, CP/Shocktech/Warrior Reg, and the Stock Black Magic regulator.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:53 PM #19
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from what ive experienced....the 2liter is freeer flowing...but not as consistent as the sidewinder.....another thing is ive had a few blown orings come from my 2liters....ive never had hat problem with a sidewinder.....my tech has had his original sidewinder on his ghun and hasnt changed an oring in almost 5 years......my 2liters were eating up orings faster then a mice eatin cheese...aka told me it was because they can only test theri regs to like 700 psi or soemthing when most hp tanks put out 800...they said htey weer goign thru a bad bathc of orgins also but i still blew one even afyter they said hte problem was fixed.....
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:23 PM #20
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I have a hybrid reg on my cocker and get close to perfect consistency.
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Old 10-16-2007, 10:37 AM #21
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Pressure compensating-take for example this case. you're 68/45 tank outputs 800 psi. Your tank drops below 800 psi to say, 700. A normal regulator set at say 300 psi, now will not give that same 300 psi, but will instead maybe output 290 or 310. This, in turn, will change your velocity. The AKA 2-Liter is pressure compensating so will not change due to a change in downstream pressure. The same situation above will happen if you have a cheap reg on your tank, or if the tank reg creeps for some reason. I have a sidewinder and a 2-Liter, and I'm as happy as a red-headed step child with a $5 bill. Both regs are amazing, but the 2-Liter IS better.

Now, as to your question of the regs function, you are mostly correct, but I don't want to pick and choose, so I will describe the regs function myself instead.

The "dump chamber", so to speak, is all the air before your valve and after your reg. This volume includes Low pressure chambers, front block, ASA extensions (such as an extender cap or the size of the sidewinder top), and the air chamber itself. Obviously the bigger it is the better (e.g. the Merlin body). Now, when the valve is opened, this air starts to rush out, causing a drop in pressure. This drop in pressure unseats the seal in the reg and allows air to come in. This all happens simultaneously, but the reg doesn't let in quite as much as the valve lets out. This is where recharge time and flow come into play. The higher the flow of the reg, the better it will maintain the pressure as the valve is firing, thus increasing efficiency (this is why spool valves suck at efficiency. They don't let anymore air in the chamber while firing). Once the valve closes, the higher the reg flows, the quicker it will refill the chamber and be prepared for the next shot, thus avoiding shoot-down. Now to consistency. If the reg is more consistent, it will output the same pressure, or close thereto, every time. The closer it gets to the same pressure every time, the tighter your velocity fluctuation will be. That is why, in the realm of regs, the AKA(by AKA I mean Aaron K. Alexander which spans to include the STD JDS series) regs are King. They NEVER change their output pressure in the case of the 2-Liter, SCM III, and STD JDS. The Sidewinder does change, but said change is so nominal that it is almost unnecessary to mention.

So the moral of this post: buy 2 AKA regs, one inline and one LPR. Then get yourself a Mini-Merlin, MPP Ram, e-blade w/ t-board, rail and on/off ASA, Steel braided cable (I can rant on it's benefits over macroline too), Tornado valve and mQ2 valve (because they're both the best in their respective sense), 7000 series aluminum pump arm, custom featherlight milling, half-blocking, black delrin lightning bolt, PPS 12" barrel with dual porting and wedgits, clamping feedneck, and you come up with the super cocker that I've been trying to assemble forever. Sadly I'm a poor college student and can't. Oh well, I have most of it anyway.
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