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Old 10-17-2007, 02:58 AM #988
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Alright, let's get some people saving this thread before Billy gets back and starts editing out his stuff, shall we?
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:59 AM #989
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nope,
he is a ladies man!
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Old 10-17-2007, 02:59 AM #990
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I refuse to jump on the bandwagon against smart parts. their guns have been near the top of the market since their beginning. I use an impulse, and it has never let me down once.

and with their latest lawsuit, its business folks. Its a competitive world, and you must do whatever you can to gain the competitive edge. The ends justify the means in my opinion. If you are not willing to do whatever it takes, then you simply can & will not exist in the business world.

I know ill get a lot of crap for this post, and quite frankly, I dont care. Im tired of people badmouthing a company just because its the cool thing to do.

My rant is over now.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:00 AM #991
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Let me start off by saying that I do like the products made by Smart Parts, so much so that I designed aftermarket parts for the Ion.

However, the idea that WDP, Smart Parts, or anyone we've ever talked about invented the electropnuematic paintball marker is just stupid. In fact, the original shocker patent even mentions the true original, but somehow manages to claim that the shocker was the first.

US Patent Filed: 1984
International Patent Filed: 1985
Patent Granted: 1986

EDELMAN PATENT

Click "Documents" on the far right side. You can view all 50 pages of the patent, including drawings.

While reading this, try to remember this is a patent filed in 1984, and the marker itself was designed over a period of years before the patent was filed.

What I keep asking myself is why there was ever a legal battle, when this patent predated it?

Last edited by Element Paintball : 10-17-2007 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:00 AM #992
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Quite honestly I bet Dox_Zox has archived the whole thing (I assume..)

And considering the reaction to this thread elsewhere - I assume others have done the same.

However - there is no reason why you shouldnt take a few screenshots and archive them
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:00 AM #993
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nope,
he is a ladies man!
despicable, she's at most 1/2 his age...



1/5 with his facial hair on him.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:02 AM #994
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Originally Posted by Deus Machina View Post
Alright, let's get some people saving this thread before Billy gets back and starts editing out his stuff, shall we?
i will if its not done by tommarrow. otherwise, theres plently of times someone quoted him, so provided SP doesn't patent internet forums, or buys the rights to PBN, at least a record will be kept, a bit broken up.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:03 AM #995
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this thread is made of epic win!
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:04 AM #996
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Check out my new sig, feel free to copypasta everyone.
Psst ... wrong month

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Old 10-17-2007, 03:04 AM #997
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this thread is made of epic win!
your sig.

it's october fool!
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:12 AM #998
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and... post 1000, in what has turned out to be one of the most interesting and intelligent threads in all of pbnation.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:15 AM #999
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Originally posted by Chickenmunga:
As far as the mini being hard to understand... WHAT???
1. open box
2. ding fries are done
I tried reading the quest manual and started looking for my seat on the short bus.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:18 AM #1000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tippymann76 View Post
I refuse to jump on the bandwagon against smart parts. their guns have been near the top of the market since their beginning. I use an impulse, and it has never let me down once.

and with their latest lawsuit, its business folks. Its a competitive world, and you must do whatever you can to gain the competitive edge. The ends justify the means in my opinion. If you are not willing to do whatever it takes, then you simply can & will not exist in the business world.

I know ill get a lot of crap for this post, and quite frankly, I dont care. Im tired of people badmouthing a company just because its the cool thing to do.

My rant is over now.
Actually this thread is populated by mostly dorks. We don't rail smart parts because its cool. We rail them because they believe in that inherently evil credo that the end justifies the means.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:20 AM #1001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Paintball View Post
and... post 1000, in what has turned out to be one of the most interesting and intelligent threads in all of pbnation.
If not entertaining to see a paintball giant trip all over himself defending his company
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:20 AM #1002
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and with their latest lawsuit, its business folks. Its a competitive world, and you must do whatever you can to gain the competitive edge.
Even illegally?
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:21 AM #1003
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The art you mention may have to be presented to the patent office. I will pass this information on to my attorney. The patent process takes years not weeks and this patent will not issue for several years, but by the time it issues all the prior art will be presented to the patent office. It is the only way to get a patent that can be enforced.
Even though I know he's gone for the night, I feel the need to respond. According to patent law, failing to issue known prior-art in an attempt to circumvent the proper patenting process is against the law. It isn't a question of may it is a certainty of must. Again, I will be very interested to see where all of this goes.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:24 AM #1004
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Actually this thread is populated by mostly dorks. We don't rail smart parts because its cool. We rail them because they believe in that inherently evil credo that the end justifies the means.
But thats business. And no matter how much everyone hates it, thats how business will always be.

Any company and i mean ANY company would not even think twice about cutting out any competition. By any means necessary.

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Even illegally?
If it were in fact illegal, charges would be brought against Bill Gardner. It is not illegal, whether it is ethical is up to everyones own opinion.
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Last edited by tippymann76 : 10-17-2007 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:25 AM #1005
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Hello All,

Sorry I am late to the party. What a thread!! My comments:

I am NOT a degreed engineer. I only have a high school education. I do have decades of experience designing machinery and computer control systems and doing scientific research. I am right now at a science meeting in Austin TX preparing to give a talk on laser fluorescence. I am first and foremost interested in the TRUTH. This is why we did the research and as you all know, have made our findings public. I always have endeavored to answer questions straight and to the point. If you want to criticize my thinking, here it is have at it. I have learned much from hanging around people smarter than I am.

Much of what we discovered ran contrary to the popular opinion in paintball. Things like barrel length, working pressure etc have often made us look out of place in the mainstream market and in all honesty contributed to much of our decline. Now that the upper segment of the market has matured in their thinking, many of these things are now obvious, but flash and sponsorships still sell more product.

Magic Box
In the mid nineties there was a conversion from CO2 to compressed air. We supported the Magic Box based on the following statement. "When you switched to compressed air your working pressure in the chamber went up. The increased volume of the Black Box brought that pressure back down to where it was with CO2 so your marker felt the same when you shot it." We never supported any claims beyond that.

We had warranty issues with the modifications since they tended to leak. Smart Parts was a huge customer of ours and we wanted to make them happy, so we offered to drill extra holes along the on/off to expand the chamber and offered SP that valve instead of the Black Box. They did but the product tapered off quickly anyway. In later generations of the stock valve we made the walls thinner to increase the volume. Volume increases happened in every version of the valve starting with 5.0 and earlier prototypes.

Did I like paintball??
Sometimes I absolutely loved it and other times totally hated it. It was a fantastic industry when the major players would sit down to dinner at Debbie Dion's house after the Amateur Open and we would collectively discuss ways to improve the game. We were all out for a common goal and helping each other achieve that seemed natural. Debbie was complaining to me in the last couple years of the Am Open that she couldn't have a dinner any more because everyone was in lawsuits. That is a good example of what I found to be good and bad with paintball.

Bill,

You made a mistake coming here to the internet paintball community. These people will not be put off, will not accept partial answers and will hold you accountable for everything you say. They are not your typical customer. Even through all the bickering and flaming, the collective consciousness of this community sits at nothing less than the genius level. They are the highest and best of what paintball has to offer. I have trusted and turned to them for years and they have allowed me to walk among them for which I am grateful. Your success in this industry is undeniable, success in the forums is a whole different matter. Smart Parts has earned its place, there should be no need for you to defend it here.

Tom Kaye
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:25 AM #1006
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Originally Posted by tippymann76 View Post
I know ill get a lot of crap for this post, and quite frankly, I dont care. Im tired of people badmouthing a company just because its the cool thing to do.

My rant is over now.
We don't hate the company because they patent their stuff and defend it, we hate them because they copy stuff, patent it, and sue. Or they patent stuff they don't even make and didn't, themselves, design and sue.

Or how they ran Pneuventures into the ground and bought their stuff dirt cheap, when they were already under the Shocker contract.

The latter is unethical. The former, the way they've gone about it, is illegal.

Last edited by Deus Machina : 10-17-2007 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:25 AM #1007
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But thats business. And no matter how much everyone hates it, thats how business will always be.

Any company and i mean ANY company would not even think twice about cutting out any competition. By any means necessary.
So you are encouraging companies to do illegal things then?
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Old 10-17-2007, 03:26 AM #1008
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I can't believe I actually witnessed that unfold. I truly hope that Doc's work will lead to the undoing all the problems SP has started, and I hope everyone here gets to see what kind of players the Gardners really are.

Edit: It's official, Tom Kaye has posted.
Tom, you may never meet me, and will probably never know who I am, but I thank you for all the work you have put into our sport. It's people like you who give me hope that people aren't really that bad.

I hope you plan another Celebrity event; I'd love to play a game with you.

Chuff Chuff.
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Last edited by Whee McGee : 10-17-2007 at 03:36 AM.
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