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Old 10-17-2007, 01:07 AM #946
RealtorTommy
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BGardner would make it great in politics...to bad he would run the country in the ground....
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:07 AM #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGardner View Post
If I had not filed these patent the Chinese would be making everything, as it is they are making a great deal of the equipment in the marketplace. I employ roughly two hundred Americans making paintball guns that I do not regret. Maybe I could have done some things differently, but I was young and unexperienced. I did the best I was capable of. Maybe I will do better in the future. We never forced anyone out of business. We just asked for a royalty, there decision to fight put them out of business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc Zox View Post
http://news.pghtech.org/teq/teqstory.cfm?ID=1680

so SmartParts is making most of their profits with chinese manufacturing?
Wow.. Bill Gardner outright lied to us.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:07 AM #948
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Originally Posted by RealtorTommy View Post
Well this should go down in history.....
I'm sure it will. I've read all 40 something pages in one sitting.
This is really history in the making.
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Originally posted by Chickenmunga:
As far as the mini being hard to understand... WHAT???
1. open box
2. ding fries are done
I tried reading the quest manual and started looking for my seat on the short bus.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:08 AM #949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGardner
Part of my frustration surrounds the fact that my competition at the time started all the misnomers about the magic box.
-One of those "misnomers" stated that, like the original All-American barrel,* the so-called Magic Box was originally developed by a Brit as the "Black Box". They say you - the company- brought the idea to the US, patented it, and began producing it, with little or no regard (and certainly no official recognition) to the original developer.

If you have a moment, perhaps you could clarify that issue.

(*Supposedly the All-American barrel was originally developed by one of the first members of the All-Americans, as a "self squeeging" barrel. The squeegee effect didn't work, of course, but it did make the gun quieter, and so somehow the barrel- the porting anyway- got patented by the Gardners, with again no compensation or official recognition to the guy who actually thought it up. Said member left shortly thereafter.)

Quote:
It worked.
-Could you please let us know what you mean by "worked"? What, precisely, did it do? And by what mechanism did it do it?

Quote:
Many people bought it and liked it.
-Many people have bought male-enhancement pills too. Doesn't mean the product did what it said it'd do on the box. It just means you have a really clever sales pitch.

On the other hand, AGD only made them for you, stopped making them as soon as you stopped ordering them, and made no effort whatsoever to try and incorporate that "technology" into the later models of the Automag.

Mr. Kaye is rightly known for analyzing his works intelectually- actually performing experiments with rifling, paint-to-barrel fit and whether or not ported barrels "vent pressure" or "relieve the air column ahead of the ball" and the like. I have some difficulty seeing Tom not wanting to use the "magic box" technology for later and better Automag models, if the tech in fact did what you stated it could do.

Quote:
Low-pressure equals better accuracy.
-By what mechanism? How, exactly, does a reduced operating pressure translate into improved accuracy? I'm not an engineer- as in, I don't have a fancy piece of really expensive paper on the wall that says I'm an engineer- but I know lotsa big words good, so don't be afraid to lay out the facts and figures, sir. I'm sure I'll manage to muddle through.

Quote:
Almost all high- end guns use lower pressure than the Automag and most run at lower pressure than the automag with the magic box.
-Yessir. The question is, is this relevant? That's not much different than saying "almost all high-end guns have a barrel longer than a Splatmaster".

Unless you can tell us by what mechanism the op pressure directly affects performance, that's what your engineers would tell you is an "anecdote"- and anecdotes are not data.

Doc.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:08 AM #950
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Originally Posted by BGardner View Post
Tom Kay was wrong. As much as I liked him, he is not making paintball equipment anymore. He never loved to play the game. It was more of a business than a passion. He has found his passion now, and I bet he is alot happier.
Have you ever played along side him?

Regardless, he was less of a business man and more of an artist. If you ever did anything more than throw paperwork at him you might have realized that... He had more passion for the sport than any head of a plastic-pushing money-grubbing corporation has, period.

I'm very disturbed by this most recent patent, seeing as I own a patented Badger, a patented SL-68 2, and an Invert Mini, all three of which seem to predate this recent one of yours.

I grew up at the same time as paintball did; when it was taking it's baby steps I was too. I've watched this game grow and shrink several times, and I've watched some of the most influential designers and producers of revolutionary markers and gear be pushed out or bought out by corporate greed.

If this trend continues, in 5 years people will be drinking SmartParts soda from an NPPL Collectors Glass while they watch the world series on their SmartParts-Edition iPod, and the greedy bastards who want to cheapen the sport will have won. I guess I'll be out of a job.

Just so you know, Su8lime Paintball stopped carrying SP when you sold us those Impulses and dropped the MSRP later that day. My bosses pregnant wife really loved that one... Small businesses just get mowed down around you, huh?
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:09 AM #951
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Most of us already know the answers...we just want to hear them from SmartParts...
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:09 AM #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneUp View Post
Wow.. Bill Gardner outright lied to us.
and you think thats the first time?

naw, your smarter than that

lulz
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:11 AM #953
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:11 AM #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGardner View Post
Yes and as you know small changes at the beginning of a projectiles flight (especially a light weight projectile) are magnified significantly during is flight.
-Yessir. And how is that aspect affected by the marker and/or it's operating pressure?

Again, that's a projectile issue, not a gun issue.

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Old 10-17-2007, 01:12 AM #955
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-Could you please let us know what you mean by "worked"? What, precisely, did it do? And by what mechanism did it do it?
It was a tube... It didn't do much of anything really, except that you could tip your marker sideways and allow a little liquid c02 in for a 350fps "hot shot". I disected one for the benefit of the AGD Forum here on PbN a few months ago... You could make one with four 90* fittings.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:14 AM #956
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This thread was epic. too bad i have to work in 4hrs. SWEET.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:15 AM #957
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very epic. I havent followed the SP saga, but I regret ever buying anything from them after 2night.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:15 AM #958
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Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
and you think thats the first time?

naw, your smarter than that

lulz
yer but this time it's personally, in front of everyone that actually knows 2 ****s.

as you can tell i've never had a conversation with him before.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:16 AM #959
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wow... SP's lawyers are going to have a stroke in the morning...
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:17 AM #960
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quoted from TECH-REC:
“We had to start a company in China to achieve the cost advantages required for certain elements of the ION gun, while also investing in the finest machining we could find.”

You can get some good things out of China, rarely though. Most of it is Q/C related issues.
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Originally posted by Chickenmunga:
As far as the mini being hard to understand... WHAT???
1. open box
2. ding fries are done
I tried reading the quest manual and started looking for my seat on the short bus.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:19 AM #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGardner View Post
Tom Kay was wrong. As much as I liked him, he is not making paintball equipment anymore. He never loved to play the game. It was more of a business than a passion. He has found his passion now, and I bet he is alot happier.
-Except that Mr. Kaye is on record stating that his decision to quit was in large part due to Smart Parts litigation.

As for the "not liking the game", Tom arranged and helped run no fewer than three big-game events, going as far as getting William Shatner to personally participate- that is, Bill played, he didn't just show up and MC- with the bulk of the proceeds going to Shatner's charities.

I think you're letting a little bias and predjudice show, sir, and it's unbecoming.

Doc.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:19 AM #962
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This is great. I hope we start getting some answers.
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Veteran of the Bill Gardner smack down; 10/16/07-10/17/07, 11:05pm - 2:01am
Originally posted by Chickenmunga:
As far as the mini being hard to understand... WHAT???
1. open box
2. ding fries are done
I tried reading the quest manual and started looking for my seat on the short bus.
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:21 AM #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.C. Basbas View Post
It was a tube... It didn't do much of anything really, except that you could tip your marker sideways and allow a little liquid c02 in for a 350fps "hot shot". I disected one for the benefit of the AGD Forum here on PbN a few months ago... You could make one with four 90* fittings.
That was it, tilting it sideways. Thank you. I knew it acted as a liquid CO2 accumulator but couldn't remember which tilt accomplished that.

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Old 10-17-2007, 01:21 AM #964
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ugh yupp this is why i no likie smart parts there's always sumthing new....
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:23 AM #965
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Just to clarify, Billy is no longer online.

Everyone get some sleep and, on behalf of PbN, THANK YOU for keeping it on topic and mostly civil.

This will surely be a memorable post and I doubt that this is far from over.

Best,
Philip
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Old 10-17-2007, 01:23 AM #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yettitheman View Post
This is great. I hope we start getting some answers.
It sounds to me that the 'answers' we are going to get are the one the Bill Gardner has told himself so many times that he actually believes it.

I do appreciate him coming on and talking, but for the life of me I can't see what his motivation in this endeavor is. Not one post said "Gee thanks Mr. Gardner for making such a great gun...." not one.
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