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Old 09-25-2007, 06:32 AM #22
Lil Azn Dave
 
 
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In my opinion, I have never heard of a field that you had to pay a good amount of money for then have to do all the laboring yourself just because it's "speed ball".

As Hawaii ( 0000 ) said above, when John owned the Paintball Park of Memphis everything went great. Great weekend with tons of people, even on both days! He was nice and helped around the whole park and all that jazz, MPL tournaments went good with a HUGE turnout. God, those were the days. You pay $40.00 for a case that would shoot a lot better than the Evil paint that you buy at EZ Paintball that is left over from the ****ing Indoor tournament. Yes, Indoor. We old EZ Army Kidz have experienced this because he gave us paint that we WORKED for from the Indoor tournament that was left over a couple years ago.

There's always CHF in Hernando, Missippii. You pay and they will assist you with everything you need and do all the field mounting for you. You play on a brand new 2007 X-ball field with no holes, no leaks, up to date field layouts (World Cup), etc. The cost for CHF is $150.00 for a membership for a WHOLE year, your bring your own paint if you have a membership, you get discount on items in the store and paint with the membership, great advantages. Also, the turnout each weekend is great with tons of people with great experiences.

Got questions of any sort? PM me.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:17 PM #23
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Where to even begin... How about I start by describing the fields I play at.

Firstly, $60 isn't cheap; that's ludicrous, especially for what you offer and expect. My team, as well as all surrounding teams, often practice at Neosho. This field is AT the Brass Eagle paint factory. We get unlimited paint that they would normally throw away, a brand new field that we don't have to set up, and entry, for $40. Guess what? That trash paint actually breaks.

Well, that's a special circumstance, you say. Let's look at Underground Paintball. A large, legitimate field. Hands down, the nicest facility I've ever had the pleasure of using. Great paint, great staff, EXCELLENT teams to scrimmage, a PERFECT field, and... Guess what? It costs $40, and I don't have to maintain a damn thing.

Well... Maybe that's just a fluke, you say? Let's take a look at Firestorm. PERFECT X-ball field, amazing grass, and all regulation. Not to mention, we don't have to maintain the field whatsoever (that's what the STAFF does). How much? Also $40, and if we choose, $15 + BYOP.

I guess you could say I'm getting lucky with these fields. So, let's really start digging. Yes, there's another: SWAT Extreme Paintball. They also have a regulation X-ball field. We have had issues with them in the past, but, hey, I will give them credit: when we show up to play, the field is ready to go, and if it needs work, they fix it. $50 for entry, paint, or BYOP.

So, what's the deal? It's not as though I live in California. I live in Arkansas, for Christ' sake, and I get better prices than you offer a team that supposedly get SPECIAL prices. Are you joking? $60 for old Evil? Not to mention the fact that you are an outright liar to say $40 is below wholesale (or you are just getting shafted) ... The most premium of premium paints cost us no more than $35 from our wholsaler.

Seriously, and to accuse them of breaking your leaf-blower. Even if they did, would bringing it up not be a moot point? You charge them what I consider to be more than full price, expect them to maintain your dated field, and accuse them of breaking field equipment when you refuse to put NON-WORKING staff out to supervise? Maybe if this is the case, you should have taught them how to use the blower. Not every 14-15 year old that plays paintball is exactly mechanically savvy...

Sorry, but the complaint is 100% legitimate, and your rebuttle is absolutely shocking. You've made a joke of your field, and lost quite a bit of business as a result.
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Old 10-01-2007, 03:30 PM #24
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I don't know about his insurance but ours requires us to have 1 ref for every 14 people and if I had teams to blow up bunkers for me $42.00 would be great for me.
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:10 PM #25
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That park has 7 wooded fields because that is what brings in the money. Every open group and every private group has its own referee, no one plays downfield unsupervised. The Airball field is a completely seperate entity... and has been so for a while now.

Paint at the field is not a year old... nor is the paint "dirty". The Paint is white Evil with a white shell... and on that shell is black Evil logo printed with ink. What you are mistaking as "dirty" is that ink rubbing and leaving marks on the white shells of other paintballs. The paint is bouncy, but when we had Pink RPS All-Star... everyone complained that it wouldn't shoot out of the rental markers. So, either way.. people complain.

The current owners do everything on the up and up. Employees use a time clock, food & breaks are provided, and federal taxes/deductions are paid as required by law. The previous owner pretty much used Child labor, cleverly called "Sponsorship Hours" for everything... even had 14 year olds operating tractors for bushhogging fields. The previous owner made every speedball player on a team that played at the park do "Sponsorship Hours" at the park. In return for $40 a case paintballs, they had to work one or two saturdays a month for free at the park. All of which alienated many parents from the park, they often complained about that staff not caring or enforcing the safety rules... so they would not be coming back. Once the recreational play dropped off, It left the owner thinking the sport was dead, which is why I think he decided to sell the park to the Zorn's.

To compound issues, Nate, the full-time person in charge of maintaining the fields, has vanished off the face of the earth... we are all honestly worried about his well being. He was a no call/no show that weekend, leaving us scrambling to cover our groups and the front counter... and has yet to contact ANYONE who knows him.

Prior to about a month ago, "The Deal" for airball was $10 bring your own paint and air up the field with our blower... and people complained about that and never paid their $10. The park is not a charity... the $10 was not for our labor but the wear and tear on the field, and we use that money to buy the next Airball field after selling the previous one... not to mention the added expense of buying more stakes, patch kits, bungees, and gas for the blower.

I'm sure David can seed that field, line it, put the new field out, and staff the field... but you'll also pay $20 a person plus buy field paint at $60 to offset the cost of the field, the labor to maintain the field, and the labor to keep staff out there reffing games and enforcing FPO.

I think people fail to understand the difference between price & profit. If you go into a shop, be friendly to the owner and haggle the price down... so that the owner makes $15... and you do that 5 times, the owner profits a grand total of $75... not $5000, you're not making the owner rich.

In the same breath, the field has 100 - 160 recreational players every weekend... so we reinvest the money from those fields back into those very same fields. We just added our seventh wooded field to help handle the load from the recreational play. Purchased new signage for the fields and are pricing out resources to develop an eighth wooded field.

I'm an avid fan of speedball, and I don't want to see it disappear from the Memphis Park... but its hard to see the benefit in keeping it. I'm trying to mediate on both sides... I just gave up my hours on Sunday to show some stewardship to my home speedball field... and adopt it as a project. I encourage every one else to show stewardship in their home field and change their attitude from "What is the park doing for me" to "What can I do to help my local paintball park and paintball grow".
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:33 PM #26
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Quote:
As Hawaii ( 0000 ) said above, when John owned the Paintball Park of Memphis everything went great. Great weekend with tons of people, even on both days! He was nice and helped around the whole park and all that jazz, MPL tournaments went good with a HUGE turnout. God, those were the days.
David, you and I are cool and I respect your opinion... but you and I know that's what you and Hawaii said above was not entirely the case. You guys posted pics on the EZ forums of John as Hitler, on his own forums... and in the pic he was ordering people to do their sponsorship hours. Tons of people at the park on weekends is a stretch, because if it was tons of people then he wouldn't have sold the park to the Zorns. Also, I didnt know that 3-5 open teams and 2-3 beginner teams constituted a "great turnout" for a MPL tournament. Lastly, that $40 a case was at the expense of making 14 year olds work as the reffing and maintenance staff... which caused an attendace hit in the recreational play due to safety concerns. So, you're telling me and PBNation it was great having you guys carry all those landscape timbers, dig holes for railroad ties, operate tractors, operate mowers, etc on the different fields just so you had the "opportunity" to buy $40 case RPS Premium.

Again, I'm trying to keep airball at the park... so I've given up my work on Sundays to devote to the field... and to get things back where they need to be. I love my sport and we can make this work, but you have to call a spade a spade.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:42 PM #27
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Letting you know, neither I nor Hawaii posted the picture of John's picture. It was Militia with all of that. But it's whatever. I don't have anything to do with paintball anymore for a long time so I shouldn't be worrying about any of this.
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:11 PM #28
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There is a lot of pointing fingers from you guys and none of the fingers are pointing in the right direction.

In economics there is something called the median price. You take the supply versus demand formula and you find out how much something is worth. With that being said how can EZ charge $90 per case of paint to people who know what its worth? Its simple they cannot, so they realize that we tournament players or even serious rec players are not going to attend thier field for those prices. So they have to lower the price for us. That is not giving us a deal thats making money you wouldnt get otherwise.

As for the prior deal of BYOP and pay $10. That was fine with me, my team never complained once about that and never tried to get away without paying the fee.

Now if at any point David or Eric would have said "Clay we will give you these prices in return for your teams services" I would have not ever made this thread. To assume that we new we were supposed to be working for them while paying an exeptable price for their goods and services is ignorant and arrogant.

You even said yourself you are going to be working for free on Sundays for them. Why would they change the way they run thier business when idiots work for free because they feel they are helping the sport? It does not help the sport in the area for you to show up every few weeks and air up bunkers for them. It would help the park maybe but not the sport. There are to many other options in this area for them to act this way as a business. Everyone will continue to enjoy the sport at other parks, or people like me will buy thier own field for thier team to play on. I am still not sure what to call you guys for working for free. Slaves work for free but then they dont pay someone to treat them like crap.


I am still very suprised that there has been no apologies for assuming or pointing fingers. That is why I will never return to Memphis paintball or EZ paintball stores. However I do feel David and Eric should get into politics, I think they would do very well. Like I said before I do not understand how they convince people to give them money so they can work for them. Its very impressive actually.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:58 PM #29
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Old 10-05-2007, 12:01 AM #30
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Wow... thanks for calling me and idiot and a slave but thats on you. I'd rather volunteer an hour or two a week to help get the local airball field back up than drive for 1-2 hours to play anywhere else. I can't help but feel partial to the MPP, I'm 28 now... and I've called the MPP my home field since I was 13, back then it was called "Challenge Park". So, I have alot of memories invested in that facilitiy, regardless of who owns it.

You can spare us the lecture on Business Economics... I've got a Bachelors of Business Administration, concentrated in Management Information Systems. I'm well versed in Macroeconomics, Microeconomics, Accounting, Finance, and Business Statistics. We are well aware of our fiscal position, our index of sustainable growth and our Strategic Audit. But while you mentioned it, the median price is exactly why prices are where they are and have remained for a while. The field has somewhere around 200 rental markers... last weekend we had a complete rental of all markers plus 30 or 40 walk-on rec players with their own markers. All were paying $70 - $90 a case, and had a blast. As long as these numbers continue to stay constant... as they have for a while now, there is no reason to change anything in the business model.

Moreover, when the speedball players had $40 a case paint... they would only buy 1 bag... maybe 2 = $10 - $20. With the price at $60, they still bought 1 bag... maybe 2... $15 - $30. They weren't buying in a quantity enough to validate the low price... the whole reason for cutting a deal like that is to limit the financial burden on the speedball players since they normally are shooting so much more paint. However, the paint consumption stayed exactly the same... in that case, there was no positive impact by lowering the price.

I miss my friends on the EZ Army and I want to have a local field to be proud of, which is why I'm giving up a couple hours each week to help... then I'll be playing at the park opens to the public at noon on Sundays.

Good luck over there and thanks for the publicity.

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Old 10-05-2007, 12:05 AM #31
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TO David,
Then I apologize, you didn't post the pictures of John as Hitler... but it does show that people weren't happy back then either. But like I said in your "quitting sale", I have like 7 guns now... so if the boys ever wanna give it a go again, I can supply the markers. LOL.
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Old 10-05-2007, 04:35 AM #32
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To compound issues, Nate, the full-time person in charge of maintaining the fields, has vanished off the face of the earth... we are all honestly worried about his well being. He was a no call/no show that weekend, leaving us scrambling to cover our groups and the front counter... and has yet to contact ANYONE who knows him.
**** like that happens in memphis all the time when you **** people over.
Have you looked in the river yet?


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Originally Posted by themaxx-captain View Post
Prior to about a month ago, "The Deal" for airball was $10 bring your own paint and air up the field with our blower... and people complained about that and never paid their $10. The park is not a charity... the $10 was not for our labor but the wear and tear on the field, and we use that money to buy the next Airball field after selling the previous one... not to mention the added expense of buying more stakes, patch kits, bungees, and gas for the blower.
now that dont sound that bad
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:40 AM #33
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**** like that happens in memphis all the time when you **** people over.
Have you looked in the river yet?
You know, that's pretty uncalled for. He, his wife, and baby are missing... I understand people are mad about the situation with the airball field, but there are alot of things more important than paintball. That kind of vitriol doesn't serve any purpose and shouldn't be posted.
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:12 AM #34
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Wow... thanks for calling me and idiot and a slave but thats on you. I'd rather volunteer an hour or two a week to help get the local airball field back up than drive for 1-2 hours to play anywhere else. I can't help but feel partial to the MPP, I'm 28 now... and I've called the MPP my home field since I was 13, back then it was called "Challenge Park". So, I have alot of memories invested in that facilitiy, regardless of who owns it.

You can spare us the lecture on Business Economics... I've got a Bachelors of Business Administration, concentrated in Management Information Systems. I'm well versed in Macroeconomics, Microeconomics, Accounting, Finance, and Business Statistics. We are well aware of our fiscal position, our index of sustainable growth and our Strategic Audit. But while you mentioned it, the median price is exactly why prices are where they are and have remained for a while. The field has somewhere around 200 rental markers... last weekend we had a complete rental of all markers plus 30 or 40 walk-on rec players with their own markers. All were paying $70 - $90 a case, and had a blast. As long as these numbers continue to stay constant... as they have for a while now, there is no reason to change anything in the business model.

Moreover, when the speedball players had $40 a case paint... they would only buy 1 bag... maybe 2 = $10 - $20. With the price at $60, they still bought 1 bag... maybe 2... $15 - $30. They weren't buying in a quantity enough to validate the low price... the whole reason for cutting a deal like that is to limit the financial burden on the speedball players since they normally are shooting so much more paint. However, the paint consumption stayed exactly the same... in that case, there was no positive impact by lowering the price.

I miss my friends on the EZ Army and I want to have a local field to be proud of, which is why I'm giving up a couple hours each week to help... then I'll be playing at the park opens to the public at noon on Sundays.

Good luck over there and thanks for the publicity.
I don't understand; it's not worth it to sell small quantities of paint?

You have the speedball course 100% self maintaining and self policing, by your rules at least... That would make ANY quantity worth having and selling.

There is that prestigious degree in business at work.
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Old 10-05-2007, 01:52 PM #35
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I don't understand; it's not worth it to sell small quantities of paint?

You have the speedball course 100% self maintaining and self policing, by your rules at least... That would make ANY quantity worth having and selling.

There is that prestigious degree in business at work.

No, you don't understand the Median Price, which is actually called the equilibrium price... the equilibrium price is the point on the supply/demand curve where you maximize your profit potential... if you go up the curve, you price is too high leaving a surplus and if you go down the curve then your price is too low leaving you unable to meet demand... i.e. losing profits. When the price of paint was $40 a case, we were losing profits because no one bought more paint. The volume of paint sold to airball players at $40 per case was hauntingly similar to the volume of paint sold to airball players at $60 per case... as a result, there is a tremendous amount of unrealized profit because an increase in paint sales was not seen at the lower price.

I could understand if there was a "law of diminishing returns" effect, where at first people bought more paint... but then they slowly returned to their previous purchasing/consumption levels because that's what they've always shot. But there was no visisble increase in the sales volume from the drop in price, so we were essentially just giving away money. In this case, the elasticity of demand proved to be non-existant.

So no, the field is never 100% self-maintaining or self-policing due to several little factors you learn in accounting... depreciation and the variable cost of maintenance. Let's see, people could have paid $10 to BYOP... but they chose to no pay and when confronted, would leave. So when that didn't work, they were offered Field Paint at a lower price, $40 a case, but they didn't buy any more than before so it became a negative result in terms of weekly revenue. When you lower prices, you do so anticipating a spike in unit sales volume to replace revenue loss per unit. That's the simplest way to explain it.

Let's play with some numbers shall we.

At $10 a bag, you sell 27 bags.... revenue generated $270
At $15 a bag, you sell 24 bags.... revenue generated $360

If cost is 7.5 per bag... I have no idea what the true cost per bag is...
At 7.50 cost a bag, you sell 27 bags... your cost of goods sold is 202.5
At 7.50 cost a bag, you sell 24 bags... your cost of goods sold is 180

Therefore, realized profit is...
Profit on 27 bags at $10 is... $68.... for the year its $3536
Profit on 24 bags at $15 is... $180... for the year its $9360

In order to make the same profit per year at $10 per bag that you get from $15, you'd have to sell somewhere around 70 bags each weekend... $9100 profit at years end. The more you sell at $15... then the amount needed to equal the same profit at $10 grows exponentially. If we sold 40 bags at $15, then you make $300 profit.. to make the same profit at $10 a bag, you have to sell 120 bags!

Wow, you sell 3 less bags but make almost triple the profit. But the real factor is this... $3536 is not enough to pay an employee to ref and maintain the field for a year and buy a new field at the end of each year. $9360 is enough to pay a ref $7 an hour and buy a new field at the end of the year.

The kicker is this, if those 20 - 30 players would have paid their $10 per person to BYOP... that would have been much better for the park financially. $200 - $300 a weekend... or $10400 - $15600 a year. But instead, people skipped out on paying or would just leave when confronted for not paying entry.

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Old 10-05-2007, 03:29 PM #36
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I personally could careless if the airball was reffed and I do agree it's dumb to hire someone to set/air it up. I only think that because you have people that are already being paid setting inside and if these people are doing work its not so much that they can't step outside and air the field up.

When we brought our own paint we ALL always paid the ten dollar fee but at the same time during those days the field was always already setup. I assume that was all done by ez-army now though.

If you have any airball player that will come pay $60-$90 a case for paint and then have to work on the field they are not very bright. Especially when they have a park 30 minutes away that is always aired up on the weekends and has a pretty nice membership deal.

As for us, I just can't find it reasonable for us to drive over an hour, set up the field (at least another hour), having to air up the field regularly after games(which would add up to a good amount of time because a lot of bunkers lose a lot of air), paying $60 a case, and then still have to drive home.

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Old 10-05-2007, 03:52 PM #37
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Yea, and that's an understandable viewpoint.

If I remember correctly, that weekend the park was short on staff. Nate was a no call/no show... and he's the full time guy that maintains the fields. Shaun cannot leave the front counter unattended... we've already had issues with people trying to steal money out of the register. Andrew was running the open group that day... I don't think Andrew Jenkins works on Sundays. We require private groups to book ahead so that we can schedule additional refs for each group... we had no private groups that sunday, so there were no additional refs floating around.

It was just the "perfect storm" for things to not go well that day. I'm sure Andrew's attitude didn't help the issue either.
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:40 PM #38
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david dont worry about these guys you still have all your faithful regulars who still remember the meaning of paintball which is not just to shoot but mostly to have fun with friends and make friends which is what you guys enforce these people here could ***** about anything, they should be happy that we are getting the new 08 airball field.
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:50 PM #39
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Yea, and that's an understandable viewpoint.

If I remember correctly, that weekend the park was short on staff. Nate was a no call/no show... and he's the full time guy that maintains the fields. Shaun cannot leave the front counter unattended... we've already had issues with people trying to steal money out of the register. Andrew was running the open group that day... I don't think Andrew Jenkins works on Sundays. We require private groups to book ahead so that we can schedule additional refs for each group... we had no private groups that sunday, so there were no additional refs floating around.

It was just the "perfect storm" for things to not go well that day. I'm sure Andrew's attitude didn't help the issue either.

Your right Andrew's attitude didn't help one bit but Andrew and Shaun were both inside when I went in and ask about the field.

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david dont worry about these guys you still have all your faithful regulars who still remember the meaning of paintball which is not just to shoot but mostly to have fun with friends and make friends which is what you guys enforce these people here could ***** about anything, they should be happy that we are getting the new 08 airball field.
Could what about anything? Why should we be happy about an 08 field?
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:34 AM #40
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You know, that's pretty uncalled for. He, his wife, and baby are missing... I understand people are mad about the situation with the airball field, but there are alot of things more important than paintball. That kind of vitriol doesn't serve any purpose and shouldn't be posted.
Yes, the part about the river was insensitive, and I dont know the guy. I hope it wasnt taken the wrong way, but all I was trying to say is that from reading this thread and from this being in MEMPHIS,......

ok, well, whatever
sorry
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Old 10-06-2007, 11:17 PM #41
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Thank you thread starter. For a while I've planed to make a trip to the park with several friends. I'm now going to have to change my mind. What you dealed with (prices and service) is crazy. Thanks for the news, and I'll let my friends know of your experience.
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Old 10-16-2007, 03:55 AM #42
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haha, at all of that
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