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Old 08-28-2007, 03:10 PM #1
StrangeBalla55
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Senior Project: pneumatics vs. electronics

So some of you seniors might have to do a senior project

I know what my project is, a robot with 1 side controlled with pneumatics and the other electronics.

My main blank as of now is what to write about(8-10 pages). I was thinking of going in-depth of the differences of pneumatics and electronics. How ever IDK if I can come up with enough info on both subjects to make a good presentations.

I was thinking maybe how they have evolved from when they were first introduced, up until now.

Please, if you have any worth while suggestions PM me or post.
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Old 08-28-2007, 03:20 PM #2
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sounds pretty cool. you could do the history like you said and then applications and such.

you can also describe the different type of pneumatic systems and electronic circuits.

double-spacing always helps too.
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Old 08-28-2007, 03:22 PM #3
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It is in MLA format, so its no problem!
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Old 08-28-2007, 03:26 PM #4
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Do a complete lab study. Testing all aspects like energy consumption, Energy transfer, efficiency, cost, speed, friction, noise, direction change, response time, weight, and that sort of stuff.
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Old 08-28-2007, 04:39 PM #5
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if your school had a FIRST robotics team it might be worth joining it this year

i've used a lot of pnuematics and electronic in the last 2 years, not to mention free stuff from old robot
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Old 08-28-2007, 06:59 PM #6
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id compare how fast each has grown/not grown, more efficient, easier, cost, maintenence(sp?) ahhhh thats all i can think of now... now help me with my concepts of writing paper lol
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:21 PM #7
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lol, I run the idea's by my teacher, and the guy who I ask to be my mentor. Should be interesting
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Old 08-29-2007, 08:45 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghillemonster View Post
if your school had a FIRST robotics team it might be worth joining it this year

i've used a lot of pnuematics and electronic in the last 2 years, not to mention free stuff from old robot
Nice to see another member of the FIRST FRC Community on here. I'm the Captain of Team 75. Anyways...

If this paper is for a true engineering course and not "the history of engineering" or what have you, then stay away from the development and history of pneumatics and electronics. Identify some key components of your design and detail their design in your paper. The problems you encountered, all possible solutions, CAD drawings, phase design, etc.
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:26 PM #9
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The paper can be on any thing except on "how" you made your end product/project. So I cant say how the pneumatics and electronics control the function of the robot. But I got English tomorrow and ill talk to him and see what he thinks is good.
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Old 08-29-2007, 03:50 PM #10
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I'd babble on about the power transfers between them. IE motors use a gear ratio (usually, anyway) whereas fluid power mechanisms use air or hydraulic pressure through hoses or some other medium, that then acts on a surface.

Very different things they are, but if not for the general shape of the actual item you may be fooled as to which is being used if you didn't already know (meaning, with the proper development they can both perform quite well on the surface). I went through my entire robotics I course thinking this particular 6th axis arm was linear-actuated, only to find out it was servo controlled.
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Old 08-29-2007, 05:14 PM #11
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I was thinking of getting a whole bunch of servos, Maybe I can "discuss" why I chose one part compared to another.

My school doesnt have any "robot teams"
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Old 08-29-2007, 09:55 PM #12
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Is FIRST a college program? I thought it was but don't know now. We had a kid in my class today that was on our team last year, he looked like he was 14...
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Old 08-29-2007, 09:59 PM #13
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Is FIRST a college program? I thought it was but don't know now. We had a kid in my class today that was on our team last year, he looked like he was 14...
FIRST FRC is a high school program. However many colleges and corporations sponsor teams and provide mentors for students. FTC and FLL are for middle and intermediate school students.

www.RoboRaiders.com is my team's website. That should show you how far a group of 60 high school students can go in six weeks. www.USFirst.org for all things FIRST.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:02 PM #14
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ahhh okay. Our school took 3rd last year (the Shakesphere robot, talked and moves its head/eyes/etc). Unfortunately this year the guy that did the motor work removed half of them so it doesn't work anymore...
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:11 AM #15
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look into the fact that electrical tool and such are much more energy efficient than air tools. sometimes up to six times more efficient.
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Old 08-30-2007, 01:31 PM #16
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Honestly, there are few pnuematic machines that are 100% pneumatically operated and self perpetuating (provided it has a continous gas source). Electronics are mainly used in robotics because in conjunction with gears and pulleys they can be controlled to a higher degree of accuracy. Without mechanical stops, it is hard to control pnuematics. This is why you see many pistons in pnuematics. You can certainly use a piston to operate a gear or flywheel, but to get any resolution or precision and accuracy you would need pistons with varying lengths and diameters to operate what could be controlled with micro-controller and electronic motor.

I feel the biggest advantage to pnuematics is that you can use inert gasses, or generate a lot of power with a small gas cylinder as opposed to similarily sized batteries.
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Old 08-30-2007, 04:31 PM #17
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I was thinking of getting a **** load of solenoids, and hooking up my tank to it..
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Old 08-30-2007, 07:31 PM #18
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good point about the accuracy of electronics.

the one at the end about the small cylinder versus the battery isn't quite accurate. it takes a lot of energy, from either combustion or electricity, to compress many gasses, especially air. the most efficient type of air compressor, a rotary screw type, is only 10% energy efficient. with fuel and electricity prices on the rise, many companies trying to find ways cut back on energy usage. i have an internship with a center run by the Dpartment of Energy. this is what we do all the time. but anyway, electrical components are getting smaller and more powerfull every day. an electric self animated system is much smaller than a pneumatic one. this is due to the fact that air systems require pistons, hose systems, camshafts, etc.
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:26 PM #19
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^^ When I say generate a lot of power it isn't literal in the sense of how much energy is required to to produce the gas being used, but as a modus of operation.

Would you rather have a gas operated impact hammer or an electric one? Chances are you are going to take a gas operated hammer over an electric.
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Old 09-03-2007, 12:06 AM #20
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< For all those "intern genious people" searching for an energy solution out there, this technology is known about, and pretty much all that would be needed to solve, enegy cost, spent folsil fuels, and just about every other problem accociated with choosing a reliable enery, over fuels...
However a greedy hand full of billionairs that controlls this sorta thing, like our governments world wide for example, are all guilty of holding back this sorta technolodical improvement, in favor of continualy linning their pockets with the earned dollar, thanks to the ignorant societies of people AKA "the general public" allowing this sorta thing to continue on as such, never looking back to ponder the results of our own bad deeds to humans, and nature alike...
But hey.... Thats just my out look on this....

And as far as the drive motors for pistons gos, thats already easily acheivable aswell...
We already have digitaly controlled servos, utilizing a frictionless, full floating ,coreless, out runner motors...
These can operate on 4.8 - 6 volts of power, and will hold a dead zero of practicly infinate resolution, allowing for super precision with a rotational speed of .07sec @ 60deg.
They weigh right over an ounce, and produce 114 in.oz. of torque...

I use these in my R/C helicopter to control all axis'...
So this technology is already achievable also...
Its just a matter of time till some genious puts two and two together....
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Old 09-03-2007, 12:49 AM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghillemonster View Post
if your school had a FIRST robotics team it might be worth joining it this year

i've used a lot of pnuematics and electronic in the last 2 years, not to mention free stuff from old robot
humph, my teacher doesn't let me have any of the old solenoids...
oh well, didn't know so many FIRST people on here.
Couse, we use the old parts to build about 3 different "idea" robots before we finish the actual one. team 888 btw

On topic, lots of good stuff for electronics and pneumatics. just don't **** it up, stuffs a lot more expensive. The speed controllers are I think 3-400 bucks a pop. We ended up frying one this year, luckily it was an "old" part.
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