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Old 08-25-2007, 12:55 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeplayer. View Post
I sure wish I shot film so I could be as ridiculously elitist as you. Obviously if I went into a darkroom and spent an hour with an enlarger I would have an incredible print that absolutely must be considered art, right? However, if I "press the button" then "dump it into Photoshop" and spend an hour in my digital work flow, it's not nearly as artistic or creative as that hour spent in the darkroom?


Don't respond to this. I don't really care to hear your answer anyways.
Your an idiot, screw off
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:04 PM #65
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Originally Posted by mllanos1111 View Post
Your an idiot, screw off
Please explain the validity of this response.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:54 PM #66
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It was in response to two of your remarks below.

Photography is not art guys. Real art takes true talent and a real dedicated effort to be made. All of you trying to defend photography as an art are simply retarded and have never tried to paint or artistically doodle. If photography was really art, then Van Gogh would have used a Leica instead of a brush. I mean you wouldn't take away Picasso's guitar right?

Geeze, all you guys with your neat little cameras think you're all so high and mighty. You all suck.


and this one:

Originally Posted by Snakeplayer. View Post
I sure wish I shot film so I could be as ridiculously elitist as you. Obviously if I went into a darkroom and spent an hour with an enlarger I would have an incredible print that absolutely must be considered art, right? However, if I "press the button" then "dump it into Photoshop" and spend an hour in my digital work flow, it's not nearly as artistic or creative as that hour spent in the darkroom?


Don't respond to this. I don't really care to hear your answer anyways.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:56 PM #67
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I like that quote.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:28 PM #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mllanos1111 View Post
It was in response to two of your remarks below.

Photography is not art guys. Real art takes true talent and a real dedicated effort to be made. All of you trying to defend photography as an art are simply retarded and have never tried to paint or artistically doodle. If photography was really art, then Van Gogh would have used a Leica instead of a brush. I mean you wouldn't take away Picasso's guitar right?

Geeze, all you guys with your neat little cameras think you're all so high and mighty. You all suck.


and this one:

Originally Posted by Snakeplayer. View Post
I sure wish I shot film so I could be as ridiculously elitist as you. Obviously if I went into a darkroom and spent an hour with an enlarger I would have an incredible print that absolutely must be considered art, right? However, if I "press the button" then "dump it into Photoshop" and spend an hour in my digital work flow, it's not nearly as artistic or creative as that hour spent in the darkroom?


Don't respond to this. I don't really care to hear your answer anyways.
While it's safe to assume one who is a good artist may be a good photographer as well, shooting film does not make you good. Oh my congrats you took photo 1 in high school and now you know how to use a ****ing enlarger. I probably know a ****load more about developing, printing, and the ****ing zone system for that matter. But do I brag about it? No! Just because you know how to shoot LF that doesn't make you an artist. So basically what your getting is:
1) People with their digital rebels and kit lens can't be good photographers.
While it is safe to assume many of this beginners are not as knowledgeable about the artistic aspects of photography as Ansel Adams is, that doesn't mean they can't produce good work. And yes most these kids are little pieces of ****s. But who cares? Keep it to yourself.

2) Photography is not art compared to painting,sculpting etc.
Okay, so kids posting pictures of their dog in the backyard is not really art. So why are you letting that influence your ideas on other photographers? As you and i have both said it's the ****ing photo section of a paintball website. It is the same way at many other photo forums.

3) You can't understand photography unless you shoot film.
Again, for every 50 kids posting pictures of their dog, there are also a ton of kids producing great images with their digital cameras. Because they weren't born 10 years ago when digital wasn't around means they don't understand photography? No!

Basically, your the type of "photographer" who thinks he is the bee's knees because he can focus a view camera. Again no one gives a ****. I can do the same thing but i don't look down upon others because they can't.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:28 PM #69
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You're an idiot, screw off








I like that quote.


Me too.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:39 PM #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mllanos1111 View Post
I agree about the thread being useless, but you dont know **** about me and what I know on this subject.
I didnt know that coming into this thread was going to be like going into the Ion forum. I expected people to be having good discussions but hell it is a paintball forum so I shouldnt have to high of expectations.
It's obvious how much knowledge you have on the subject. I don't even know what the comparison to Ion was...you suck at arguing a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mllanos1111 View Post
It was in response to two of your remarks below.

Photography is not art guys. Real art takes true talent and a real dedicated effort to be made. All of you trying to defend photography as an art are simply retarded and have never tried to paint or artistically doodle. If photography was really art, then Van Gogh would have used a Leica instead of a brush. I mean you wouldn't take away Picasso's guitar right?

Geeze, all you guys with your neat little cameras think you're all so high and mighty. You all suck.


and this one:

Originally Posted by Snakeplayer. View Post
I sure wish I shot film so I could be as ridiculously elitist as you. Obviously if I went into a darkroom and spent an hour with an enlarger I would have an incredible print that absolutely must be considered art, right? However, if I "press the button" then "dump it into Photoshop" and spend an hour in my digital work flow, it's not nearly as artistic or creative as that hour spent in the darkroom?


Don't respond to this. I don't really care to hear your answer anyways.
Jesus you're retarded. If you knew anything about some of the members in here you would know we have a pretty big pool of talent and knowledge. And for god sakes, learn to quote.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:42 PM #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghs421 View Post
While it's safe to assume one who is a good artist may be a good photographer as well, shooting film does not make you good. Oh my congrats you took photo 1 in high school and now you know how to use a ****ing enlarger. I probably know a ****load more about developing, printing, and the ****ing zone system for that matter. But do I brag about it? No! Just because you know how to shoot LF that doesn't make you an artist. So basically what your getting is:
1) People with their digital rebels and kit lens can't be good photographers.
While it is safe to assume many of this beginners are not as knowledgeable about the artistic aspects of photography as Ansel Adams is, that doesn't mean they can't produce good work. And yes most these kids are little pieces of ****s. But who cares? Keep it to yourself.

2) Photography is not art compared to painting,sculpting etc.
Okay, so kids posting pictures of their dog in the backyard is not really art. So why are you letting that influence your ideas on other photographers? As you and i have both said it's the ****ing photo section of a paintball website. It is the same way at many other photo forums.

3) You can't understand photography unless you shoot film.
Again, for every 50 kids posting pictures of their dog, there are also a ton of kids producing great images with their digital cameras. Because they weren't born 10 years ago when digital wasn't around means they don't understand photography? No!

Basically, your the type of "photographer" who thinks he is the bee's knees because he can focus a view camera. Again no one gives a ****. I can do the same thing but i don't look down upon others because they can't.
I think you've completely misread and misinterpreted what I was saying.
I never meant to imply that film is superior and I never said that, in fact if I remember correctly I said something along the lines of it being a different tool.
and if you go back to the original post on this thread the poster was implying that photography was not an art.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:54 PM #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mllanos1111 View Post
Well it seems to me that most photographers here are digital photographers and have probably never processed film and printed their own prints.

Sure you could give a painter a camera and they could probably get a shot, but could they do what other masters have done?
Ansel Adams didn’t just walk around with a P&S and snap a picture. He carried around a large format camera and thought about lighting, filters, depth of field (do most of you know what that is?).
He also created the Zone System, yes creating a print was an art for him as it was for many famous photographers, I don’t think a painter could take a 4x5 camera, load it, get a proper exposure, develop the film, and print it in the darkroom.
It amazes me to see these guys that go out and get a new DSLR and all of a sudden I’m a photographer. Most of these guys don’t know **** about photography, they just know I can set my camera to auto and snap away and dump it into photoshop and **** I’m a real photographer.

They have no background in it, never studied it, don’t know what the hell an fstop is let alone how to use depth of field. Real photography is an art, try going into a studio sometime and get a model and try and figure out how to get proper lighting that part is also an art.
And if Van Gogh was going to use a camera it wouldn’t have been a Leica it would have been a large format camera, because even the least expensive MF camera can make better prints than any 35mm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mllanos1111 View Post
Quote:

What does that have to do with anything?

Has everything to do with it. The whole post is about the validity of photography and making it sound like any idiot can go buy a camera and be Ansel Adams. You know people have gone out with a GPS with exact coordinates of some of his pictures and they still cant duplicate what he did.
thats why!

Actually true! ask any photographer who actually knows what he's talking about and even the ones who own Leica's and they will tell you that there is now substitute for size.

That's a lot of implication for film being superior...or is that just me? Then again that was before Drex started proving you wrong over and over...toward the end you finally understood you knew nothing and said "the camera is just a tool" good try.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:56 PM #73
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If you can get around all the BS in here there is actually a decent discussion going on, which is why I have been slow to pull the trigger on this thread.

I think a lot of people are ignorant of exactly what all gos into producing a good photograph, whether it be film or digital. Most people assume it's just the click of a button. Few people have any clue how much goes into processing a photograph. And that goes for film and digital as well.

But then, that should come as no surprise to any of the regulars here considering how often people post snap shots and want to discuss their photos as if some real effor was put into them.

IMO, I think the main thing that seperates photography from painting and other crative artforms is that photography is a lot more technical in nature, while other artforms are more creative in nature. Not saying that photography as an artform doesn't take creativity. Im just saying it's more technical due to the use us technical devices.

Another issue that confuses the ignorant masses is the fact that any newb can pick up a camera and create a fairly true to life photograph of any scene. But not any newb can do that same with a brush and paint. But, that all goes back to knowing the difference between a snap shot and an artisitic photograph.
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Old 08-25-2007, 04:04 PM #74
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Pull it.... pull the trigger.
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Old 08-25-2007, 04:09 PM #75
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Pfft. Anyone who's anyone knows you don't pull the trigger...you squeeze it.

Noobs...
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Old 08-25-2007, 04:11 PM #76
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What if it's a pullable trigger?


Now this is a good disussion!
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Old 08-25-2007, 04:56 PM #77
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Pull it.... pull the trigger.
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Old 08-26-2007, 04:45 AM #78
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1) People with their digital rebels and kit lens can't be good photographers.
You're starting a whole new argument, now. There's a difference between a photographer and artist.

And above all else, technical merit has nothing to do with the quality of art.
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:27 AM #79
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That's a lot of implication for film being superior...or is that just me? Then again that was before Drex started proving you wrong over and over...toward the end you finally understood you knew nothing and said "the camera is just a tool" good try.
It's just you, because if you actually read what I was saying and kept it in the context of the original post it would make sense to you... or not.

And how did Drex prove me wrong? He completely misunderstood everything as well.

Of course I mention film a lot, but I'm also talking about Ansel and Van Gogh, pretty sure they were before digital.
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Old 08-26-2007, 09:44 AM #80
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squeeze it.
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:54 AM #81
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You're starting a whole new argument, now. There's a difference between a photographer and artist.

And above all else, technical merit has nothing to do with the quality of art.
Had you read correctly I was repeating a type of argument he previously implied. I'm not starting any new issues on this topic.
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:12 PM #82
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This thread is full of nonsense.
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Old 08-26-2007, 02:09 PM #83
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Ok lets try again.


Quote:
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I honestly have no idea where you are going with this, I make a comment about how using film or digital doesn't make a difference, and you reply with talking about people trying to duplicate adams work.

I high-lighted this to show you that your argument is all over the place, constantly changing, and no one understands what the **** you're talking about.
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It's just you, because if you actually read what I was saying and kept it in the context of the original post it would make sense to you... or not.

It doesn't seem to make sense to anyone. Better word usage on your part maybe?

And how did Drex prove me wrong? He completely misunderstood everything as well.

so lets see. I misunderstood, GHS misunderstood, Drex misunderstood. Maybe it's your communication skills that are lacking?
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squeeze it.
For sure.
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Old 08-26-2007, 06:25 PM #84
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