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Old 08-21-2007, 09:43 PM #43
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:00 PM #44
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:31 PM #45
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:02 PM #46
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:32 PM #47
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I didn't know art had "levels". If photography is the lowest of these levels, I want to know what art represents the ultra badass level 70 with full arena lewtz.
Would you happen to live in Alaska?
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:41 PM #48
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sry to kill your roll bro,
after that was said that the entire planet stop listening

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Would you happen to live in Alaska?
somone needs to take some pics of seals
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Old 08-24-2007, 09:13 PM #49
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Well it seems to me that most photographers here are digital photographers and have probably never processed film and printed their own prints.

Sure you could give a painter a camera and they could probably get a shot, but could they do what other masters have done?
Ansel Adams didnít just walk around with a P&S and snap a picture. He carried around a large format camera and thought about lighting, filters, depth of field (do most of you know what that is?).
He also created the Zone System, yes creating a print was an art for him as it was for many famous photographers, I donít think a painter could take a 4x5 camera, load it, get a proper exposure, develop the film, and print it in the darkroom.
It amazes me to see these guys that go out and get a new DSLR and all of a sudden Iím a photographer. Most of these guys donít know **** about photography, they just know I can set my camera to auto and snap away and dump it into photoshop and **** Iím a real photographer.

They have no background in it, never studied it, donít know what the hell an fstop is let alone how to use depth of field. Real photography is an art, try going into a studio sometime and get a model and try and figure out how to get proper lighting that part is also an art.
And if Van Gogh was going to use a camera it wouldnít have been a Leica it would have been a large format camera, because even the least expensive MF camera can make better prints than any 35mm.
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Old 08-24-2007, 10:29 PM #50
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Well it seems to me that most photographers here are digital photographers and have probably never processed film and printed their own prints.
What does that have to do with anything?

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depth of field (do most of you know what that is?).
That's the width/length of the sports field right?

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because even the least expensive MF camera can make better prints than any 35mm.
wrong.
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:17 PM #51
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What does that have to do with anything?

Has everything to do with it. The whole post is about the validity of photography and making it sound like any idiot can go buy a camera and be Ansel Adams. You know people have gone out with a GPS with exact coordinates of some of his pictures and they still cant duplicate what he did.
thats why!

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depth of field (do most of you know what that is?).
That's the width/length of the sports field right?
Lol guess you got me on that one.

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because even the least expensive MF camera can make better prints than any 35mm.
Quote:wrong.

Actually true! ask any photographer who actually knows what he's talking about and even the ones who own Leica's and they will tell you that there is now substitute for size.
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:20 PM #52
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Well it seems to me that most photographers here are digital photographers and have probably never processed film and printed their own prints.

Sure you could give a painter a camera and they could probably get a shot, but could they do what other masters have done?
Ansel Adams didnít just walk around with a P&S and snap a picture. He carried around a large format camera and thought about lighting, filters, depth of field (do most of you know what that is?).
He also created the Zone System, yes creating a print was an art for him as it was for many famous photographers, I donít think a painter could take a 4x5 camera, load it, get a proper exposure, develop the film, and print it in the darkroom.
It amazes me to see these guys that go out and get a new DSLR and all of a sudden Iím a photographer. Most of these guys donít know **** about photography, they just know I can set my camera to auto and snap away and dump it into photoshop and **** Iím a real photographer.

They have no background in it, never studied it, donít know what the hell an fstop is let alone how to use depth of field. Real photography is an art, try going into a studio sometime and get a model and try and figure out how to get proper lighting that part is also an art.
And if Van Gogh was going to use a camera it wouldnít have been a Leica it would have been a large format camera, because even the least expensive MF camera can make better prints than any 35mm.
First off all your posts in this ection have been along the lines of "agreed","yeah" In addition while there are a lot of photographers like you describe here, a lot of your points as well as your stereotypes are flat out wrong. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about the zone system,film processing, and printing. Just because I know how to do those things and Joe Schmo with his D40 and kit lens doesn't know what aperture is, that doesn't necessarily mean he'll produce bad images. Yes it is annoying, but it is the photo section on a ****ing paintball website. It's no worse than Fred Miranda or POTN And you saying the cheapest MF camera will outresolve any 35mm is not at all true. A seagull TLR will not outresolve leica glass or even L lenses for that matter. And it seems like your implying good photographers don't use 35mm which is bull****. Robert Frank? Henri Cartier-Bresson? The list goes on. Hell, most of Annie Leibovitz's early Rolling Stone work was done on a 35mm rangefinder.
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:28 PM #53
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A good portion of Annie Leibovitz new stuff is done with a DSLR too.
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:34 PM #54
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I bet a decent 35mm can out resolve a holga


therefore; Me = right

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Has everything to do with it. The whole post is about the validity of photography and making it sound like any idiot can go buy a camera and be Ansel Adams. You know people have gone out with a GPS with exact coordinates of some of his pictures and they still cant duplicate what he did.
thats why!
I don't see how digital or film plays any part. anyone can pick up a film camera and take pictures as well then bring them to CVS for prints just as easilty as someone can grab a digital. It's not like nobody except pros took photos before the digital age. I mean, I have photographs from World War Two sitting on my desk that my grandfather took. I also have the camera. While the camera is not an "automatic" camera it's still basically a medium format point and shoot. Was my grandfather a photographer? hell no, He was given the camera by his father so he could take pictures of friends and family, and eventually fellow servicemen.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:01 AM #55
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First off all your posts in this ection have been along the lines of "agreed","yeah" In addition while there are a lot of photographers like you describe here, a lot of your points as well as your stereotypes are flat out wrong. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about the zone system,film processing, and printing. Just because I know how to do those things and Joe Schmo with his D40 and kit lens doesn't know what aperture is, that doesn't necessarily mean he'll produce bad images. Yes it is annoying, but it is the photo section on a ****ing paintball website. It's no worse than Fred Miranda or POTN And you saying the cheapest MF camera will outresolve any 35mm is not at all true. A seagull TLR will not outresolve leica glass or even L lenses for that matter. And it seems like your implying good photographers don't use 35mm which is bull****. Robert Frank? Henri Cartier-Bresson? The list goes on. Hell, most of Annie Leibovitz's early Rolling Stone work was done on a 35mm rangefinder.
The bottom line is that this whole discussion has to do with the validity of photography as a legitimate art form. Photography is an art form, this is an argument as old as photography and it struck a nerve.
Rangefinders are great cameras Leica's and Zeiss Ikons especially, but the bottom line is that a camera is a just a tool, I've seen great photography with pinhole cameras. What erked me was that people were making it sound like painting is art because you pick up a brush and photography is not because all you do is push a button not true.
The camera does not have as much to do with great pictures as the photographer does otherwise everyone would be one.

Maybe the Seagull doesnt compare because it has **** glass but you could pick up a Minolta Autocord with a damn good Rokker lens for cheap and it will give any Leica or Rollei a run for its money.

I also did not say everyone here was a certain way I was generalizing which means generally speaking its true, just because there are exceptions to the rule it does not disprove the rule.

I also was not implying that good photographers do not use 35mm I certainly couldnt see Annie Leibovitz hauling a MF camera backstage to grab shots of the Who. All formats have their advantages I'm certainly not going to use a DSLR to take long time exposures and if I really want to shoot landscapes I'll most likely use a MF and If I shoot concerts or paintball I use either 35mm or digital so it all depends its just a tool like choosing the right brush.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:16 AM #56
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I bet a decent 35mm can out resolve a holga


therefore; Me = right



I don't see how digital or film plays any part. anyone can pick up a film camera and take pictures as well then bring them to CVS for prints just as easilty as someone can grab a digital. It's not like nobody except pros took photos before the digital age. I mean, I have photographs from World War Two sitting on my desk that my grandfather took. I also have the camera. While the camera is not an "automatic" camera it's still basically a medium format point and shoot. Was my grandfather a photographer? hell no, He was given the camera by his father so he could take pictures of friends and family, and eventually fellow servicemen.
Your missing the point.
Were talking about photography as art so if all your doing is pushing the button and everything after is being handled by the lab or CVS, sounds to me like your just taking snapshots which is fine but I'm not sure that is considered art.
The workflow has changed now so digital is being handled at the computer now, but I think a lot of photographers are starting to see that the lab did all the color correcting and many guys are having a hard time with that because it's not as simple as it sounds.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:26 AM #57
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I honestly have no idea where you are going with this, I make a comment about how using film or digital doesn't make a difference, and you reply with talking about people trying to duplicate adams work.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:28 AM #58
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I say beat him up.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:52 AM #59
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It's obvious he knows precious little about the **** spewing from his mouth. This thread was useless after page one.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:12 PM #60
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I honestly have no idea where you are going with this, I make a comment about how using film or digital doesn't make a difference, and you reply with talking about people trying to duplicate adams work.
All I'm trying to say is that Ansel did more than just push a button. He didnt take his film to CVS and pick up his prints he controlled the image from beginning to end.
And this thread had to do with Photography as art, sure not all photography is art. Many pictures are just snap shots, just like the ones you have from WWII.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:16 PM #61
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It's obvious he knows precious little about the **** spewing from his mouth. This thread was useless after page one.
I agree about the thread being useless, but you dont know **** about me and what I know on this subject.
I didnt know that coming into this thread was going to be like going into the Ion forum. I expected people to be having good discussions but hell it is a paintball forum so I shouldnt have to high of expectations.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:49 PM #62
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I agree about the thread being useless, but you dont know **** about me and what I know on this subject.
I didnt know that coming into this thread was going to be like going into the Ion forum. I expected people to be having good discussions but hell it is a paintball forum so I shouldnt have to high of expectations.
I sure wish I shot film so I could be as ridiculously elitist as you. Obviously if I went into a darkroom and spent an hour with an enlarger I would have an incredible print that absolutely must be considered art, right? However, if I "press the button" then "dump it into Photoshop" and spend an hour in my digital work flow, it's not nearly as artistic or creative as that hour spent in the darkroom?


Don't respond to this. I don't really care to hear your answer anyways.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:50 PM #63
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I agree about the thread being useless, but you dont know **** about me and what I know on this subject.
I didnt know that coming into this thread was going to be like going into the Ion forum. I expected people to be having good discussions but hell it is a paintball forum so I shouldnt have to high of expectations.
Or maybe your just wrong?
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