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Old 08-07-2007, 08:58 PM #22
nadnarbxlee
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when u fill the hpa tank up its hot but
when u shoot it releases out a cool air
i dont think it really matter
and
C02 is bad for high end guns
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:33 AM #23
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Just to give everyone and idea co2 melts at -57C yes that is negative 57 degrees Celsius. And that is even under pressure. If it is not under pressure it boils at -78C.
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Old 08-12-2007, 03:27 PM #24
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i pretty sure heat isnt an issue with a processor on a board.
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Old 08-12-2007, 04:35 PM #25
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Right, let me just overclock my T-board to run 5ghz and run superpi 1m at 25 seconds. THen i'll use co2 to cool it
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:14 PM #26
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Actually...the chances of actual LIQUID co2 getting into the noid and what not is very low...CO2 is a liquid in the tank because it is under extreme pressure. In noids - not so much. 100 psi is not enough to liquidate co2, not really close even. The problem is that fast shooting makes the liquid need to turn gaseous more quickly, thus using thermal energy (taking in heat, making everything else colder) and THAT is why it is bad for high end guns. The cold is bad for orings. It won't have liquid itelf, but it will cause the noid to get wet (think of a cold pepsi bottle sitting in the sun) and that's bad.
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:45 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LlamaRama View Post
I have a feeling we're not to this point in paintball technology yet.

What I am proposing is this. Electronics heat up as they do more work. When electronics are cooled to freezing temperatures, they generally do a lot better. Now, I'm talking about computers here. But guns these days are getting more advanced. Might there be a point when it's suggested to use CO2? Might there be an advantage to cooling the noid or the processor? (I understand they are well separated).

//just wondering.
Yes for computers like water cooliong and stuff but on computers the water doesnt really contact anything directly it just carries the heat away. but on paintball guns the CO2 can ruin seals and damage electronics becuz its wet and can conduct and short things out plus nitro looks kooler =]
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:45 PM #28
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Right, let me just overclock my T-board to run 5ghz and run superpi 1m at 25 seconds. THen i'll use co2 to cool it
hahhahhahhahha
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Old 08-12-2007, 07:12 PM #29
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so when liquid co2 makes it past the inline reg, it can cause damage to the internals that were not made to withstand the high pressure (~800psi) of co2 (in gas form) such as blowing noids, popping hoses, and the obvious (which is due to the liquid and NOT the pressure) the eating of o-rings...
*original quote by me...*

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Indeed. Meaning that liquid is, in fact, the problem. Not the inherent pressure of Co2, as was asserted.
*notice what it says?*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcody View Post
Actually...the chances of actual LIQUID co2 getting into the noid and what not is very low...CO2 is a liquid in the tank because it is under extreme pressure. In noids - not so much. 100 psi is not enough to liquidate co2, not really close even. The problem is that fast shooting makes the liquid need to turn gaseous more quickly, thus using thermal energy (taking in heat, making everything else colder) and THAT is why it is bad for high end guns. The cold is bad for orings. It won't have liquid itelf, but it will cause the noid to get wet (think of a cold pepsi bottle sitting in the sun) and that's bad.
are you trying to say that liquid co2 doesnt make it to the bolt? or CANT make it to the bolt?
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Old 08-12-2007, 07:19 PM #30
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Someone should post that picture of the Ion thats frozen...
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Old 08-13-2007, 04:15 PM #31
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I don't think paintball electronics will get to the point where they will need cooling and if it did, there is probally a way more practical / easier way to cool it.
They already ARE. These guns dont NEED cooled down they dont overheat realy. And CO2 is pushed into the gun into a liquid state yes, but do you ever notice the gun starts to get a little wet after a while of shooting it? THAT is also very bad for it, and thats called condensation. It can leek into the electronics and you know what happends from there.

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Old 08-13-2007, 05:00 PM #32
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And now for the real answer.

LIQUID CO2 IS NOT COLD. It is the same temperature as everything else. Yes, it can GET cold, but that is not the problem that causes issues with many electros.

Co2 is a SELF-REGULATING gas. This means that if ANY liquid co2 is pressure in an enclosed container, the liquid will boil off until the pressure equalizes (around 800psi).

This is great if your gun works naturally at 800psi, since you would not need to regulate the gas down to lower pressures.

However, the problem is with regulated guns. If liquid CO2 gets past a regulator, the liquid CO2 will try to boil to sustain the 800psi. Unfortunetly, most regs end up TRAPPING that pressure in, instead of venting (like Palmer regs).

If that liquid makes it to the LPR, then the full 800psi hits the noid, and blows the orings. This is a very expensive problem since most noids can not be rebuilt, and are the most expensive part of the paintball gun.

This can be fixed by using regs with overpressure vents, but its an added expense that people no longer bother with.

Otherwise, the COLD ITSELF is absolutely no issue when using quality orings. My electro is actually FORCE FED liquid co2. The entire gun frosts over when playing, and HAS NEVER HAD A PROBLEM.

nick
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:02 PM #33
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I didn't think paintball guns needed to play half-life 2.

You wont need that much processing power in a paintball gun.
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Old 08-17-2007, 01:57 AM #34
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hahahaha
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Old 08-17-2007, 02:26 AM #35
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Someone should post that picture of the Ion thats frozen...
I wanna see that!
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Old 08-17-2007, 10:56 AM #36
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just throw some co2 on ur nice new gun. itl b fine
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:06 AM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hp_lovecraft View Post
And now for the real answer.

LIQUID CO2 IS NOT COLD. It is the same temperature as everything else. Yes, it can GET cold, but that is not the problem that causes issues with many electros.

Co2 is a SELF-REGULATING gas. This means that if ANY liquid co2 is pressure in an enclosed container, the liquid will boil off until the pressure equalizes (around 800psi).

This is great if your gun works naturally at 800psi, since you would not need to regulate the gas down to lower pressures.

However, the problem is with regulated guns. If liquid CO2 gets past a regulator, the liquid CO2 will try to boil to sustain the 800psi. Unfortunetly, most regs end up TRAPPING that pressure in, instead of venting (like Palmer regs).

If that liquid makes it to the LPR, then the full 800psi hits the noid, and blows the orings. This is a very expensive problem since most noids can not be rebuilt, and are the most expensive part of the paintball gun.

This can be fixed by using regs with overpressure vents, but its an added expense that people no longer bother with.

Otherwise, the COLD ITSELF is absolutely no issue when using quality orings. My electro is actually FORCE FED liquid co2. The entire gun frosts over when playing, and HAS NEVER HAD A PROBLEM.

nick
Thank you. I'm so sick of idiots repeating "zomg CO2 eats ur orings!!1oneone!!!" or "CO2 magically get into ur electronics and eats them too!!!1!111!!1"
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:35 AM #38
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As stated above, the problem with CO2 is pressure spikes. Your noid can't take the 800 psi that boiling CO2 will give it. There is also the fact that CO2 in a paintball gun doesn't phase change from completely liquid to completely gas. It is more like steam going through your gun, meaning partly both. So even gaseous CO2 can continue boiling and cause a spike or freeze orings. That's why high end guns will be ruined in short order with CO2.
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Old 08-17-2007, 01:51 PM #39
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plus C02 is heavy. and nobody likes extra weight.

when you fill a C02 tank you add a whole extra pound plus.
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Old 08-17-2007, 03:23 PM #40
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plus C02 is heavy. and nobody likes extra weight.
Except that filled Co2 tanks are LIGHTER then HPA tanks, for the same number of shots.

So, your point is?
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Old 08-18-2007, 04:04 PM #41
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Another problem with using CO2 is that it cannot change from liquid to gas fast enough during rapid firing. That is how liquid CO2 enters your gun. If the gas is removed from your bottle fast enough, it can freeze up the bottle preventing anything, gas or liquid from exiting. Nitrogen and other gases can do the same thing when used in much larger tank setups , but I doubt it would ever happen with a paintball gun. Nitrogen, or just about any gas will always become warm/hot when pressurized and will become cool/cold when the pressure is reduced. Its how your AC in your car works.
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Old 08-18-2007, 07:17 PM #42
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the issue with CO2 isnt being dirty, or most of the other myths you hear....

its the self regulating quality of liquid co2... that there is the same amount of pressure in a full 24oz co2 tank as there is in a tiny little 12g cartridge...

so when liquid co2 makes it past the inline reg, it can cause damage to the internals that were not made to withstand the high pressure (~800psi) of co2 (in gas form) such as blowing noids, popping hoses, and the obvious (which is due to the liquid and NOT the pressure) the eating of o-rings...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hp_lovecraft View Post
And now for the real answer.

LIQUID CO2 IS NOT COLD. It is the same temperature as everything else. Yes, it can GET cold, but that is not the problem that causes issues with many electros.

Co2 is a SELF-REGULATING gas. This means that if ANY liquid co2 is pressure in an enclosed container, the liquid will boil off until the pressure equalizes (around 800psi).

This is great if your gun works naturally at 800psi, since you would not need to regulate the gas down to lower pressures.

However, the problem is with regulated guns. If liquid CO2 gets past a regulator, the liquid CO2 will try to boil to sustain the 800psi. Unfortunetly, most regs end up TRAPPING that pressure in, instead of venting (like Palmer regs).

If that liquid makes it to the LPR, then the full 800psi hits the noid, and blows the orings. This is a very expensive problem since most noids can not be rebuilt, and are the most expensive part of the paintball gun.

This can be fixed by using regs with overpressure vents, but its an added expense that people no longer bother with.

Otherwise, the COLD ITSELF is absolutely no issue when using quality orings. My electro is actually FORCE FED liquid co2. The entire gun frosts over when playing, and HAS NEVER HAD A PROBLEM.

nick

lol, i knew it looked familiar....
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